Horses and heritage

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Re: Horses and heritage

Postby Zapruda » Thu 07 Mar, 2019 9:40 am

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Re: Horses and heritage

Postby icefest » Thu 07 Mar, 2019 10:50 am

Zapruda wrote:We'd sooner use quoll fur and emu feathers than harm those colts we will regret...

That was beautiful. 10/10
Men wanted for hazardous journey. Low wages, bitter cold, long hours of complete darkness. Safe return doubtful.
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Re: Horses and heritage

Postby Xplora » Fri 08 Mar, 2019 6:15 am

There is a Federal court injunction stopping trapping horses on the Bogong High Plains except for those around Nelse which have recently moved into that area. The action was brought to the court stating these horses also had heritage status. Not sure when it will be resolved but if the Federal court decides in favour of the horses then the country is stuffed. I would assume there is some onus on those bringing the action to prove these horses were of a heritage blood line. What would that be anyway?

And with Barilaro backflipping on his bill as witnessed and filmed in Jindabyne last week the we are all left confused. He stated there would be an immediate 50% reduction in numbers and then further culling to 600 and these will be allowed to remain in areas which are not considered sensitive. When pressed by the media about it he denied saying he supported a cull to 600 and then said he was not in conflict with his bill. He did not answer how he was to effect an immediate reduction or what immediate meant. Many of the horse supporters have been left wondering where he stands but I am sure he will just lie to everyone. The ALP man is not a great deal better. He will repeal the Act but then his action will be to do a count, form a committee and then manage but that will not include aerial culling. Apparently they also think this is inhumane. More like they know it to be a vote loser. But we read aerial culling is not inhumane for other pest species and as I have said here before, where are all the horse lovers complaining about these culls on humane reasons?
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Re: Horses and heritage

Postby johnw » Fri 08 Mar, 2019 9:16 am

Zapruda wrote:
DavidB wrote:Interesting story on ABC https://www.abc.net.au/news/2019-03-06/ ... tenews_nsw

Been to Blue Waterholes a few times and there are plenty of horses there (and the poop).


Interesting.

Something more serious is bound to happen soon. They are pretty fearless and even more so in that area of the park. We had a fairly sleepless night a few weeks ago at Bill Jones hut because they were whining and stamping right outside our tent.

I've had quite a few encounters with them over the years, fortunately mostly benign. However last trip to Blue Waterholes, early last year, we were on the Nicole/Nichols Gorge circuit coming back down to the open plain on Cave Creek after visiting the Murray Cave. We were challenged and mock charged a couple of times by a stallion with two mares. I'm pretty sure it was bluff as he was a little distant from us and eventually ran off, but it seems like they may be becoming more aggressive.
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Re: Horses and heritage

Postby Ms_Mudd » Fri 08 Mar, 2019 11:52 am

JohnW, I also have a recent encounter with a brumby. I tried getting it on film, until I realised that the stallion really meant business. I have worked and/or ridden horses all my life (drought forced me out of it a year ago) so initially was a bit blase as I was not immediately intimidated.
It was in Oxley Wild Rivers and I can only assume it was an older colt/young stallion that had been ousted from the mob as he had gotten too big for his boots.
He reared at us many times and turned at us and kept circling back around each time we scared him off. He was in amazing condition and full of himself. I saw in log books that at least one other party in the preceding weeks had encountered him with similar results.

I have no sentimentality when it comes to these feral animals, despite being a (reformed! lol) horse-mad person. The damage my own beasts did in our own home paddocks was hard enough for us to bear, they have no place in sensitive wilderness areas. If people want to trap/rehome, then all the power to them, but I have no issue with humane culls either.
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Re: Horses and heritage

Postby sambar358 » Fri 08 Mar, 2019 12:30 pm

Normally aggressive encounters with feral horses will be with stallions....either one holding a mob of mares and foals or a lone stallion either removed from his mob by another stallion or a young stallion yet to hold any mares. I've been false charged plenty of times when fly fishing in the Upper Murray on the Indi river and also while deer hunting in various locations in Vic and NSW. Most times these are all just bluff and bravado by the stallion but I had one lone mature black stallion get very aggressive while I was hunting deer on some private land south of Jindabyne a couple of years ago. He false charged me a few times to about 5m with the usual rearing up, ground pawing and vocalization then he ran off a bit stopped and turned and came again at full tilt, this time he didn't pull-up and a managed to side-step him at the last second. When he turned and came at me again I reluctantly shot him on the blaze on his forehead killing him instantly. An isolated incident most likely but one that could have ended badly for someone on foot without any form of defense, I quite enjoy my feral horse encounters but I'm always pretty wary of the stallions after that close call. Cheers

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Last edited by sambar358 on Fri 08 Mar, 2019 7:25 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Horses and heritage

Postby crollsurf » Fri 08 Mar, 2019 1:10 pm

sambar358 wrote:... he ran off a bit stopped and turned and came again at full tilt, this time he didn't pull-up and a managed to side-step him at the last second. When he turned and came at me again I reluctantly shot him on the blaze on his forehead killing him instantly. An isolated incident most likely but one that could have ended badly for someone on foot without any form of defense...


I'm kind of glad I now know that they can attack but at the same time, maybe I wish I didn't know. Next time I get stood up by a Brumby, I'm going to be a bit nervous for sure.

If Barilaro and his mates hear about that, they'll probably put in a political fix and ban bushwalkers from the park and only allow his mates on horseback into the park. Maybe they can put in a luxury hut with hot showers and pay his mates millions to invite guests to stay there and monitor the situation. That might sound like sarcasm but I wouldn't put anthing past our current State and Federal Governments.
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Re: Horses and heritage

Postby neilmny » Fri 08 Mar, 2019 4:21 pm

Can't carry a gun.......maybe a stock whip???????????? (and know how to crack it)
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Re: Horses and heritage

Postby Warin » Fri 08 Mar, 2019 5:17 pm

neilmny wrote:Can't carry a gun.......maybe a stock whip???????????? (and know how to crack it)


Carry 2. You'll never run out of ammo.
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Re: Horses and heritage

Postby Ms_Mudd » Sat 09 Mar, 2019 1:21 pm

neilmny wrote:Can't carry a gun.......maybe a stock whip???????????? (and know how to crack it)


Russel Coight style!
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Re: Horses and heritage

Postby neilmny » Sun 10 Mar, 2019 5:09 pm

:lol: :lol:
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Re: Horses and heritage

Postby johnrs » Mon 18 Mar, 2019 4:52 pm

Seems like John Barrilaro is backing away from his brumby preservation stance.
I guess he may be considering the imminent possibility of his own rehoming.
https://www.theland.com.au/story/584607 ... ts-a-wall/
and more here
https://www.abc.net.au/news/2019-03-05/ ... o/10872306
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Re: Horses and heritage

Postby crollsurf » Mon 18 Mar, 2019 6:09 pm

Looks like the stone-wall approach has worked but with an election 1 week away, I'd take the offer of 600 Brumbies. Better than 10,000+.

If Barilaro and the Libs gets back in, at least you have a bargaining chip in hand. The conservation groups need to jump on this and get a memorandum of understanding in place now.

He's a politician, so he could backflip after the elections but at least you have something to rub his nose in.

My pragmatic view is neither side will win the war but here is a battle to be won and 600 can become 500...

I do believe a sustainable outcome can be found but places like the Cooleman Plains are at breaking point ecologically ATM.

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Re: Horses and heritage

Postby DavidB » Tue 19 Mar, 2019 1:58 pm

The Reclaim Kosci mob have published a score card of the major parties' approach to feral horses in Kosci.

Some unexpected findings here. Worth a look. Go to https://reclaimkosci.org.au/scorecard/
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Re: Horses and heritage

Postby Xplora » Wed 20 Mar, 2019 5:02 am

DavidB wrote:The Reclaim Kosci mob have published a score card of the major parties' approach to feral horses in Kosci.

Some unexpected findings here. Worth a look. Go to https://reclaimkosci.org.au/scorecard/


Is there any likelihood of the greens holding a balance of power? Kosci is stuffed. It seems the alternative government is also scared of making a hard decision. Trapping and re-homing 6000 horses will take decades. The trapping takes long enough but they have already run out of homes. Even the knackery has rejected them and I doubt trapping will account for the annual increase. Fertility control is useless and it also allows the population to cause damage. Horses can live in the wild for 20 years. The greens, as per usual, have no reality attached to policy. Eradication is no longer a viable option. It would be nice but not possible. Labor also appear to be ruling out any shooting but aerial shooting will continue for pigs, goats and deer in KNP. These being 'lessor' species to horses. I am not sure how any of the parties think they can repair the damage already done apart from some token effort on stream banks. How can they repair a peat bog?
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Re: Horses and heritage

Postby Mark F » Wed 20 Mar, 2019 4:22 pm

I caught a section of an abc radio (national?) program on the weekend featuring the snowy/knp aboriginal groups wanting the bumbies culled due to the damage they do. They put a solid and reasoned case. Unfortunately I didn't get the details as I was driving.
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Re: Horses and heritage

Postby Zapruda » Wed 20 Mar, 2019 4:27 pm

Mark F wrote:I caught a section of an abc radio (national?) program on the weekend featuring the snowy/knp aboriginal groups wanting the bumbies culled due to the damage they do. They put a solid and reasoned case. Unfortunately I didn't get the details as I was driving.


Here you go Mark - https://www.smh.com.au/environment/cons ... 512nw.html
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Re: Horses and heritage

Postby johnrs » Thu 21 Mar, 2019 10:01 am

Hi Folks
Now we have a NSW state election this weekend
Reclaim Kosci has prepared a summary of the major parties positions around brumby control
There is more at http://www.reclaimkosci.org.au
Attachments
Reclaim-NSW-election-scorecard-1-e1552957463223.jpg
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Re: Horses and heritage

Postby potato » Thu 21 Mar, 2019 10:16 am

How do the shooters propose to deal with the matter?
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Re: Horses and heritage

Postby johnrs » Thu 21 Mar, 2019 10:32 am

With guns but not helicopters Potato!
There is more detailed information on the Reclaim Kosci website.
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Re: Horses and heritage

Postby potato » Thu 21 Mar, 2019 11:13 am

johnrs wrote:With guns but not helicopters Potato!
There is more detailed information on the Reclaim Kosci website.
John


Thanks John.

My browser throws all kinds of security errors when I try to access that site... I can only imagine they'd want to open up KNP to hunters.
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Re: Horses and heritage

Postby Xplora » Fri 22 Mar, 2019 6:01 am

potato wrote:My browser throws all kinds of security errors when I try to access that site... I can only imagine they'd want to open up KNP to hunters.


That has not been indicated. Trained professional shooters would be used according to the S&F party but only from the ground. I had a friend riding with others through Kosci recently and she said there were lots of feral horses but also lots of tourists who have come to see them. Curiosity after all the media attention?
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Re: Horses and heritage

Postby Zapruda » Fri 22 Mar, 2019 6:13 am

Xplora wrote:
potato wrote:My browser throws all kinds of security errors when I try to access that site... I can only imagine they'd want to open up KNP to hunters.


That has not been indicated. Trained professional shooters would be used according to the S&F party but only from the ground. I had a friend riding with others through Kosci recently and she said there were lots of feral horses but also lots of tourists who have come to see them. Curiosity after all the media attention?


The Snowy Mountains highway between Kiandra and Yarrangobilly is always full of people pulled over, sometimes precariously, having a look at horses. There is going to be an accident one day soon... A 5 minute drive down Long Plain Rd and you will easily see 100 horses. That part of the park is deteriorating rapidly.
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Re: Horses and heritage

Postby johnrs » Thu 28 Mar, 2019 11:06 am

Brumbies in KNP
Post Election status, from Reclaim Kosci Bulletin

What a rollercoaster of a week!

The Liberal-National coalition, who supported implementing the destructive Kosciuszko Wild Horse Heritage Act have won the NSW election over the weekend.
NSW Nationals leader and Deputy premier John Barilaro has committed to an immediate 50% reduction of feral horses in Kosciuszko National Park.

Pre-election Mr Barilaro told the public, “Let’s get on with the reduction, to try and aim for a 50 per cent reduction immediately”.
Invasive Species Council CEO Andrew Cox said “Ahead of the election, Mr Barilaro made a commitment to remove half of all feral horses from Kosciuszko National Park. As per his promise to the people of Monaro and New South Wales, we are expecting him to deliver on this immediately.
“The time for excuses and delays is over. Mr Barilaro must make good on his promise and outline how and when feral horse removal will be done."

The Invasive Species Council has released a post-election media release demanding Barilaro urgently outline how he will fulfil this feral horse reduction here >>

We will continue to hold the NSW government to account and ensure that this is an issue that can not be buried. Kosciuszko National Park is unique, full of fragile and spectacular landscapes and ecosystems. Our natural heritage is inclusive of the wetlands, endangered native plants and animals and should not be allowed to be destroyed by feral horses. If you haven't already make sure to sign our online petition. Call on the NSW government to protect Kosciuszko National Park from destructive feral horses and put in place effective and humane feral horse control methods.
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Re: Horses and heritage

Postby sambar358 » Sun 31 Mar, 2019 7:04 am

It'll be interesting to see how the NSW govt. goes about this. An immediate 50% reduction....50% of what as there is no accurate population assessment of the feral horse numbers in the KNP. Regardless though....achieving a 50% reduction of horse numbers in the short term will certainly not be achieved by softly-softly trapping and re-homing strategies which have been proven to be ineffective and costly in the past. Clearly lethal methods of horse control will need to be employed to achieve these outcomes.....the question is of course.....will the new NSW government have the resolve to ignore the heat that this will generate and just get on with the job and do it ? History has show that in the past the NSW government has buckled at this point and failed to deploy lethal feral horse control methods due to pressures from some sectors of the public.....and I suspect that this time it will be no different. Time will tell I guess. Cheers

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Re: Horses and heritage

Postby Xplora » Mon 01 Apr, 2019 4:03 am

Barilaro also said they would do a count of the horses first.
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Re: Horses and heritage

Postby Zapruda » Mon 08 Apr, 2019 8:27 am

Who else is shocked...? :roll: How many months/years will this tender process take - https://www.canberratimes.com.au/story/ ... /?cs=14262
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Re: Horses and heritage

Postby peregrinator » Mon 08 Apr, 2019 9:55 am

Zapruda wrote:Who else is shocked...? :roll: How many months/years will this tender process take - https://www.canberratimes.com.au/story/ ... /?cs=14262


Not shocked in the slightest. I might be shocked though if the right wing media use the same compelling imagery in any reports they make on the issue. I'll keep an eye out on that, so thanks for posting this link, Zapruda.
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Re: Horses and heritage

Postby Warin » Mon 08 Apr, 2019 10:57 am

Zapruda wrote:Who else is shocked...? :roll: How many months/years will this tender process take - https://www.canberratimes.com.au/story/ ... /?cs=14262


Just reading "Game of Mates"... excellent read.
So determining how many there are will probably be done by someone on horseback .. someone well known .. perhaps a friend of a certain someone in parliament?
A plan of management? Well it concerns horses so that will have to have people with expertise in horses....

Time frame? Next election is how far away?

Meanwhile in Victoria
400 brumbies to go out of 500 in 4 years
https://www.abc.net.au/news/2019-04-08/ ... d/10980790
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Re: Horses and heritage

Postby Xplora » Tue 09 Apr, 2019 7:21 am

The Barmah forest draft plan is out for comment. You can find it here https://engage.vic.gov.au/barmah-strategic-action-plan
I would expect another Federal court injunction on Barmah like that done for BHP. No resolution for BHP as yet but the mob near Nelse are exempt. Another 4 trapped and removed from that location. Information is the mob may have split further (into 3) but it could be just the pregnant mares in the mothers club who are being kept away from the other mares who are not pregnant. The stallion pushes them out of the main group once his job is done but they will still be close.

I am not sure how anyone could argue the count should be not be done under NPWS authority. It is the land manager.
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