Missing Victorian hiker possibly killed

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Re: Missing Victorian hiker possibly killed

Postby GPSGuided » Wed 25 Mar, 2015 8:31 am

north-north-west wrote:(Although the problem with religion is that people do have this insistence on passing it on to their children...)

As do people who are on substances of addition, children and friends. ;)
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Re: Missing Victorian hiker possibly killed

Postby devoswitch » Wed 25 Mar, 2015 9:29 am

vicrev wrote:Curious to know the medicinal benefits of this "" amazing healing plant"".........


Medicinal Marijuana use is now legalised in more than 23 of the United States. I think that alone in itself is telling you something.
Just a simple Google search of proven marijuana health benefits will give you all the answers you need but here's a link for you to save you a little time.
http://www.businessinsider.com.au/healt ... 014-4?op=1
This isn't the same as new age drugs being manufactured in labs nowadays that are screwing the population and destroying families. This is a plant of which its use dates back thousand of years ago.
There are also many reports of people being cured from certain cancers on as little as 50-60 days.
I'll leave it to individuals to make their own decisions on its place in our modern society however when stories come out on a nearly daily basis of children (or adults) suffering debilitating illness and seizures for example and marijuana is the only thing that has helped them, leads me to think it definitely has a role to play in our lives.
Where a natural herb/plant can be used in place of opiates/benzodiazepines for example I'm all for it!
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Re: Missing Victorian hiker possibly killed

Postby Moondog55 » Wed 25 Mar, 2015 9:30 am

Just as a question of interest here.
When leaving the track to take care of calls of nature which side of the track do you automatically go to?
I ask as on another forum frequented by SAR types from the Adirondacks in NY they mention you should always head uphill to drop your pants, the reason being that if for some reason you get into trouble it is easier to crawl back downhill rather than uphill
I think my initial surmise will prove to be the correct one and I'll hazard a guess that when the bones are found they will be on the downhill side of the track
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Re: Missing Victorian hiker possibly killed

Postby devoswitch » Wed 25 Mar, 2015 9:41 am

That's a very good question MD. I have never thought if it like that. I think I've always just looked for the most easily accessible hiding spot far enough from the track.
From now on uphill it is. I do all my walks solo so carry an PLB with me everywhere I go though so doesn't matter too much for me I don't think.
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Re: Missing Victorian hiker possibly killed

Postby north-north-west » Wed 25 Mar, 2015 10:14 am

The one with the best screening from the track that isn't too thick to get through. But, now I think about it, mostly uphill. It is harder to be seen if you're above a track.

And now I'm wondering just how many people seriously injure themselves while nipping into the scrubbery to drop their daks. Wonder if anyone's ever collected stats for that . . .
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Re: Missing Victorian hiker possibly killed

Postby Moondog55 » Wed 25 Mar, 2015 10:20 am

See my previous post on the matter; it happens
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Re: Missing Victorian hiker possibly killed

Postby GPSGuided » Wed 25 Mar, 2015 10:39 am

devoswitch wrote:There are also many reports of people being cured from certain cancers on as little as 50-60 days.

On that claim, I think nothing more needs to be said of those "reports".
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Re: Missing Victorian hiker possibly killed

Postby devoswitch » Wed 25 Mar, 2015 11:21 am

GPSGuided wrote:
devoswitch wrote:There are also many reports of people being cured from certain cancers on as little as 50-60 days.

On that claim, I think nothing more needs to be said of those "reports".

You don't think its possible? People just making it up or cancer just going away on its own?
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Re: Missing Victorian hiker possibly killed

Postby GPSGuided » Wed 25 Mar, 2015 11:25 am

devoswitch wrote:You don't think its possible? People just making it up or cancer just going away on its own?

They are in the realm of 'miracles'! LOL
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Re: Missing Victorian hiker possibly killed

Postby devoswitch » Wed 25 Mar, 2015 12:14 pm

Actually GPS, this may be hard to fathom and get past your stereotypical views which have obviously been drilled into your head for a long time and which you have been following like a sheep but believe it or not most of these people aren't pot smoking hippies who have a few joints a day to cure cancer, these are mostly everyday people who are turning to alternative medicines when 'modern day' medicines have failed them.
There's a lot of scientific data out there all you have to do is start researching or if you want to remain hidden in comfort behind the government made wooly blanket, that's cool too.
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Re: Missing Victorian hiker possibly killed

Postby devoswitch » Wed 25 Mar, 2015 12:16 pm

And sorry GPS I don't mean to come across as being rude I'm just blown away by how close minded some people can be.
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Re: Missing Victorian hiker possibly killed

Postby Moondog55 » Wed 25 Mar, 2015 12:23 pm

Cancer very seldom "Just goes away" some respond to treatment very well and very quickly, some do not and some cancers are simply untreatable and all that is left is palliative care; my personal opinion is that while cannabis isn't a cure or even a proven treatment it is one of the better palliative care medications.
Medical opinion in my own family is divided on the issue but those who spend a lot of time with dying people are the most in favour of its use in end of life care as are the pastors/ministers in my extended family
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Re: Missing Victorian hiker possibly killed

Postby South_Aussie_Hiker » Wed 25 Mar, 2015 12:31 pm

Moondog55 wrote:
I guess I should have stated that what an individual does to himself and by himself that does no harm to other people in no concern of lawmakers.

The problem is they aren't doing it for themselves. These people grow drugs and sell them to school kids. If the issue was relating to medicinal marijuana because it had some sort of amazing properties which couldn't be found elsewhere, it could be legalised as prescription only.

Those people stumbling across these crops and not notifying police - it disgusts me.

Recreational users drive cars when stoned, on the same roads as me with my kids strapped in the car.
They become addicted and sit at home on the dole rather than actively seek work - and my taxes pay for it. Recreational use doesn't just affect them - it affects everyone. A heavily guarded crop in the bush with guns or booby traps as hypothesised in this thread in not some individual cancer patient trying to make life a bit more liveable. It's organised crime.

I'd be surprised if recreational use of dope was responsible for any less than 99% of Australian usage. All the stoners I went to school with years ago - I'm pretty sure none of them had cancer.

Sure, campaign your local MP for legalising it through prescription or get involved positively some other way if you feel the need. Turn a blind eye to people breaking the law, no way.
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Re: Missing Victorian hiker possibly killed

Postby Moondog55 » Wed 25 Mar, 2015 12:43 pm

I could quote Ghandi here
Also small crops in the country is much more like disorganised crime
The major crops are grown in intense cultivation under grow lights in the suburbs, the stuff grown in the bush is a totally different crop altogether
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Re: Missing Victorian hiker possibly killed

Postby GPSGuided » Wed 25 Mar, 2015 12:51 pm

devoswitch wrote:And sorry GPS I don't mean to come across as being rude I'm just blown away by how close minded some people can be.

It helps when one has professional knowledge and experiences in the field. People have experienced and believed in miracles for thousands of years, that's just a part of human nature before science. :wink:
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Re: Missing Victorian hiker possibly killed

Postby GPSGuided » Wed 25 Mar, 2015 12:57 pm

Moondog55 wrote:... my personal opinion is that while cannabis isn't a cure or even a proven treatment it is one of the better palliative care medications.
Medical opinion in my own family is divided on the issue but those who spend a lot of time with dying people are the most in favour of its use in end of life care as are the pastors/ministers in my extended family

I have no issues with this line of thinking either. In terminal care, there's nothing to lose and all options can be on the table. Case in point, morphine has been available for a few decades now after a period of 'ban'. Request for marijuana to be used as a prescription drug is perfectly supportable but just not recreational use.
Last edited by GPSGuided on Wed 25 Mar, 2015 1:20 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Missing Victorian hiker possibly killed

Postby devoswitch » Wed 25 Mar, 2015 1:07 pm

GPSGuided wrote:It helps when one has professional knowledge and experiences in the field. People have experienced and believed in miracles for thousands of years, that's just a part of human nature before science. :wink:

Very True. :-)

South Aussie hiker - Most studies show that Marijuana is not addictive whatsoever. Maybe slightly psychologically addictive because people like the feeling but there's no physical addiction associated with it.
I personally don't see anything wrong with even the recreation use of marijuana. If people want to do it and it makes them happy then so be it. There have been next to if not zero recorded deaths from marijuana.
You don't hear of someone going home and beating there wife after smoking a joint. Yes there are stoned drivers on the roads but I feel that all in all they are probably more careful than regular road users albeit with slightly slowed reaction times.
What s@$#s me is the fact that most of the people who are so opposed to like likes of recreational Marijuana use or even medicinal marijuana use go home most nights and have a glass of wine or drink beer.
Alcohol kills twice as many people every year than road accidents and I dare say that a fair few of those road accident deaths are attributed to the consumption of alcohol also.
The problem is you do hear of people going home and beating their wives (or husbands) after drinking at the pub. You hear horror stories of bashings and fights all while people are under the influence of alcohol.
People go and report someone for growing one or two plants for example and destroy their ability to be able to travel and see this beautiful world of ours.
Reduced their ability to be employed all because they it makes them feel nice and would rather relax with a joint at night than go out and get on the juice....
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Re: Missing Victorian hiker possibly killed

Postby Pika » Wed 25 Mar, 2015 1:52 pm

GPSGuided wrote:
devoswitch wrote:There are also many reports of people being cured from certain cancers on as little as 50-60 days.

On that claim, I think nothing more needs to be said of those "reports".


One of my favourite people once said 'That which can be asserted without evidence, can be dismissed without evidence'.

And from Sagan 'Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence'.

I think both of these statements can apply to an assertion that anything can 'cure cancer'.
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Re: Missing Victorian hiker possibly killed

Postby Moondog55 » Wed 25 Mar, 2015 2:08 pm

I have to ask tho "What's wrong with recreational use?"
Civilization started with the farming for recreational use of barley [ for beer] and hemp [ for ganja] and while all drugs and psycho-active compounds have risks attached cannabis is at the very low end of actual risk. As far as addictive properties goes nicotine is at the to of the scale over and above heroin
Morphine and heroin are very safe drugs but are very addictive, tobacco is a very addictive unsafe drug; alcohol is probably somewhere in the middle; it's a long time since I read any comparative studies and I am unsure where amphetamines fit in especially as the latest crop of speed drugs seem to have been modified to make them more addictive; as far as amphetamines go it is probably used a lot less these days but abuse seems to be more prevalent.
Perhaps a drug debate post needs to be opened to properly discuss the whole matter
I've worked in hospitality almost my whole life and if there is one thing I have learned it's that we are all drug addicts on one sort or another, I'm a recovering alcoholic for example and i can't get through a day at the moment without at least a dozen painkillers because of the damage to my spine caused by physical overwork and overload injuries acquired over 45 years in a hard trade. I need morphine but wish to leave the addiction for another decade or so and I can't afford a spinal drip yet
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Re: Missing Victorian hiker possibly killed

Postby devoswitch » Wed 25 Mar, 2015 2:19 pm

Maybe you should try some Cannabis Moondog, I hear it has great pain relieving properties. :-)
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Re: Missing Victorian hiker possibly killed

Postby GPSGuided » Wed 25 Mar, 2015 2:35 pm

Unfortunately society and law aren't always completely logical. When there's much evidence that the society needs to cut down and control EtOH and tobacco use, and some policies have been implemented to that effect, it makes no sense to introduce more substances in the same league. Think of it this way, the society has tolerated the use and abuse of EtOH and tobacco in exchange for the control of other addictive substances... So go ahead and have another beer and ciggy! LOL
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Re: Missing Victorian hiker possibly killed

Postby devoswitch » Wed 25 Mar, 2015 2:43 pm

Controlling other substances? That's a bit of a joke.
The only thing they are controlling is the legality of their use.
These substances especially the ones that destroy lives and kill people will never be controlled until the government stops seeing the problem as a legal issue and starts seeing the problem as a health crisis facing this country. Only then can they start acting accordingly.
You only have to look at certain counties like Portugal for example who have done exactly this and legalised drugs and are starting to deal with the health problems of the addictions.
They have reported around 90% drop in the use of heroin just by providing them with the health care that's needed.
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Re: Missing Victorian hiker possibly killed

Postby Moondog55 » Wed 25 Mar, 2015 2:44 pm

devoswitch wrote:Maybe you should try some Cannabis Moondog, I hear it has great pain relieving properties. :-)


What? Do I hear a small voice on my shoulder encouraging me to break an outdated, anachronistic and unenforceable law?
Pain is why I drank so much in the first place BTW, although being of Irish extraction the genetic disposition to alcohol abuse it there. Amphetamines are also a great way of diminishing pain but so is sleep and the two seem to be mutually exclusive
I forget; which shoulder does the devil sit on?

I second your statement above BTW
The problem of getting people real jobs and really educating them would help too
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Re: Missing Victorian hiker possibly killed

Postby devoswitch » Wed 25 Mar, 2015 2:45 pm

Alcohol and cigarettes are legal still because of the tax money they provide, also they are very effective depopulation tools... But that's a whole nother argument... :-)
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Re: Missing Victorian hiker possibly killed

Postby GPSGuided » Wed 25 Mar, 2015 2:48 pm

devoswitch wrote:They have reported around 90% drop in the use of heroin just by providing them with the health care that's needed.

I think one needs to explore a lot more into that sudden 90% reduction. Don't believe every sensationalistic report you read.
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Re: Missing Victorian hiker possibly killed

Postby devoswitch » Wed 25 Mar, 2015 2:55 pm

This report was done 4 years ago.
http://www.forbes.com/sites/erikkain/20 ... -portugal/
I'm at work and can't be bothered searching for the exact figures of where it's at now but I heard an interview on the radio the other day by someone who was doing research into the decrimilisation of drugs and they stated the facts. It was 90% reduction or so...
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Re: Missing Victorian hiker possibly killed

Postby GPSGuided » Wed 25 Mar, 2015 3:02 pm

devoswitch wrote:This report was done 4 years ago.
http://www.forbes.com/sites/erikkain/20 ... -portugal/
I'm at work and can't be bothered searching for the exact figures of where it's at now but I heard an interview on the radio the other day by someone who was doing research into the decrimilisation of drugs and they stated the facts. It was 90% reduction or so...

There were no mention of 90% in that report.

Whilst there are pros and cons to the changes there in Portugal, the easiest way to alter numbers is to alter the definition. As alluded to in the report, the "number of addicts considered “problematic” " has the key word highlighted. There's clearly much more to the story that just a two digit number. If heroin use in a society can be truly cut by 90% by a simple parliamentary act, you'd think that there'd be no objections. Ain't so simple.
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Re: Missing Victorian hiker possibly killed

Postby devoswitch » Wed 25 Mar, 2015 3:22 pm

As I said that was written 5 years ago when all drugs had been decriminalised for 10 years. It's now been another 5 years and they have been decrim for 15 years now and USE is down by about 90%.
Not just a government act change or anything but a complete reform of the health system!
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Re: Missing Victorian hiker possibly killed

Postby Moondog55 » Wed 25 Mar, 2015 4:08 pm

You know I have said for years that Australia doesn't have a "Health System" get sick and you get looked after so we have "Sick System" with only lip service paid to well-being prevention and health management
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Re: Missing Victorian hiker possibly killed

Postby GPSGuided » Wed 25 Mar, 2015 4:37 pm

Moondog55 wrote:You know I have said for years that Australia doesn't have a "Health System" get sick and you get looked after so we have "Sick System" with only lip service paid to well-being prevention and health management

MD55, we should have a perspective on how good our health system is wrt the rest of the world. Sure, it can always be better, but it's a heck of a lot better than the great great majority out there.

Wait, what's the topic of the thread again? We even have a good SAR system... SAR actually go out and search properly when a hiker goes missing. And then the society still think about it so many years after.
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