Hiking paradox

[ErichFromm]

Saw this article this morning: http://mobile.news.com.au/travel/world-travel/hikers-behaving-badly-appalachian-trail-partying-raises-ire/story-e6frfqc9-1227506742522?sv=9528409c4cb5a7f8dd34cfdc937963df

Got me thinking that we walk (pun unintended) a fine balance as hikers: the more popular the activity becomes the more risk there is to our enjoyment of it. Most of us like the isolation but if too many people are on the trails then we lose that. But if not enough people hike then the government has no motivation to service hiking interests...

Some friends recently got back from Europe and said that the mountains there are stupidly beautiful, but hiking is so popular that there are chair lifts to the start, beer stops along the way (not that bad an idea) and never a sense of being away from everything. Many of the people they met commented how wonderful it would be to come to Australia and really get to remote places.

There are smart people on this forum - is there a formula to determine the relationship between hiking population and enjoyment? Something like:

Optimum enjoyment = size of park / (median total hikers per season x frequency of visits per season) / proximity to bogans

[north-north-west]

For me it's simple. The lower the number of visible people (or obvious signs thereof), the better. Ten days out bush, off track, without seeing anyone else is sheer bliss.

[GPSGuided]

For me it's simple. The lower the number of visible people (or obvious signs thereof), the better. Ten days out bush, off track, without seeing anyone else is sheer bliss.

Clearly you are in the hard core group and as hypothesised earlier, a group that may not be of interest to the govt and fund allocation.

I'd say that there really isn't an 'optimal enjoyment' point as it varies wildly with the individual. For the govt/departments, it really is a mix of interests and objectives. Some for high volume tourism while others for conservation, which probably benefit the loners best. A halo effect.

[kitty]

Optimum enjoyment - depends who you ask. You need to do a survey combined with personality test.
http://internetbrothers.org/2015/03/14/ ... the-beach/
Now...how do we keep those pesky extroverts out of the mountains?

[walkon]

For me it's simple. The lower the number of visible people (or obvious signs thereof), the better. Ten days out bush, off track, without seeing anyone else is sheer bliss.

+1 and who cares what the gov or anyone else thinks.

Kitty, contrary to that study I'm more extroverted by nature

[kitty]

Kitty, contrary to that study I'm more extroverted by nature

Yep. And contrary to the study I like the beach...as long as Im the only one on it - he hee

(Im joking around, I do like humans)

[GPSGuided]

Liking or dislike of the mountain and sea have a lot more other relevant factors... Personality trait is but one of them that may influence.

[kitty]

Liking or dislike of the mountain and sea have a lot more other relevant factors... Personality trait is but one of them that may influence.

Exactly! Such as "which" mountain and "which" beach. As Erich mentioned, there are mountains in Europe overrun with chair lifts and beer drinkers...versus mountains in the remote wilderness. There are isolate pristine beaches were you dont see another soul...versus overcrowded city beaches on a hot summer day full of humanity.

[vicrev]

I must be an oddity ........I like walking & meeting with people, especialy from other countries,compare notes,have a good laugh (universal language,laughter). ......It has got me into some wonderful situations, that's just me,for each his/her own.......

[ErichFromm]

Now...how do we keep those pesky extroverts out of the mountains?

Fairly accurate in my case - but who really likes getting sand stuck up places it really shouldn't be? Give me a nice misty mountain and a warm fire any day....as long as there isn't a bunch of people right nearby to ruin it

[GPSGuided]

...but who really likes getting sand stuck up places it really shouldn't be?

Can certainly relate to this. How do you enjoy setting up camp on sandy grounds?

[kitty]

I love walking and meeting with people too But that article about the partying on the AT is the type of "meeting" Id go out of my way to avoid.

[Hermione]

I enjoy meeting other like minded people when bushwalking, just not too many of them! I would go out of my way to avoid the types portrayed in the article about the AT.

[dingelberry]

Im like north-north-west I like to be away from crowds Im not anti social but do prefer the solitude , serenity ( ah the serenity ) of being in a place on my own.It's amazing what you can see if you just sit down be quite and let the world come to you .But I also agree with with kitty and hermione I do enjoy meeting people thats part of the reason I do the overland track ( you meet the so many different makes and models on that walk ) I also understand the need for tourism without it the money for our parks and such just won't be there. I suppose the hard part is getting the right mix and Im all for people getting out into the fresh air and enjoying what we already do.You only have to spend a day in the blue mountains to see how much tourism does for area the walks are packed out but thats fine just means us hermits go further out and find new places .

[ErichFromm]

I guess we should count ourselves lucky that we have space to go "further out" - not all countries do...

[Lophophaps]

I enjoy meeting other like minded people when bushwalking, just not too many of them! I would go out of my way to avoid the types portrayed in the article about the AT.

That sums up my view nicely. A few years ago I went from Round Mountain to Thredbo. there were two people at Mawsons, and I met them again at Schlink, my only contact in about six days until I reached Twynum. Many people. The further south I went the worse it got, with an absolute low point on Kosciuszko - hundreds of tourists. I retreated to Ramshead. Next time I'm going over K. as early as possible, maybe catch the sun rising. The peace of quiet walks and camps is bliss.

[Kainas]

I must be an oddity ........I like walking & meeting with people, especialy from other countries,compare notes,have a good laugh (universal language,laughter). ......It has got me into some wonderful situations, that's just me,for each his/her own.......

Me too.

I think my formula would have to include some variation for my mood.

As much as I hated the crowds on the Kepler Track, xmas night in one of its huts is still one of my favourite memories... representatives of 6 or 7 countries sitting around sharing cultural interests.

My favourite recent memory is getting up at 6am to take my girls to the toilet and then watching them run off to some 'strangers' tent. They had made friends with the kids the day before and were waiting for them to wake... After a few minutes they expediated the process by sticking their heads in the tent. I also love that the parents of those kids enjoyed their enthuisasm for friendship as much as we did, and we ended up spending a day hiking together. We wouldn't even have considered the 9km walk to the glow-worm tunnel alone... it would have been complaints all the way, but two new 5yo friends walked together all day without a single complaint.

But of course, the nights I have had alone with just my husband and myself, or more lately my husband and my family are delicious memories too.

So I vote for a bit of salt and a bit of pepper depending on the occasion.

[Kainas]

I have read some books about the AT and the Pacific Coast Trail. One thing I always note is that the books rarely mention scenery or beauty, but are all about miles, and hitching into town, and trail magic.

I think I would like to do the Bibbulum Track instead.

[kitty]

I have read some books about the AT and the Pacific Coast Trail. One thing I always note is that the books rarely mention scenery or beauty, but are all about miles, and hitching into town, and trail magic.
I think I would like to do the Bibbulum Track instead.

That happened to me too - I read an AT book by two sisters and got the same impression that it was just about miles and finding/locating other hikers - not what I expected from the book - it didnt inspire me to want to walk the AT, but was still an interesting read. Then I read Keith Foskett's Balancing on Blue - I really liked that he covered a wide range of topics about the trail - including scenery and beauty, as well as interesting observations of people, tourists and blisters and stuff. Its a good read and quite humorous.

I met an Englishman on the Bibbulmun Track one day who was attempting an end-to-end - he was just so surprised that he hadnt seen anyone for days Im not sure what he was expecting.

[norts]

When you walk over 2000 miles in one hit it is hard to comment on all the scenery. It becomes a bit of an overload. A bit like ppl who live with a good view , after awhile you become use to it.
There were days on the AT when i walked all day by myself and only saw people at the camp sites at night. Definitely more ppl on the AT than the PCT.
If you dont want to see ppl the AT isnt for you, it is not very remote. But if you want to have your faith in humans reinvigorated then its a great walk.
Norts

[RonK]

Terrible isn't it - to think, by being there YOU may be spoiling the experience for someone else.

[MrWalker]

Terrible isn't it - to think, by being there YOU may be spoiling the experience for someone else.

Yes, on the weekend I walked along a beach near a major Tasmanian city and was enjoying being all by myself for 3 hrs before sighting anyone else. I presumably ruined his day, since he seemed a bit grumpy to see me and obviously didn't expect anyone coming from that direction as I had walked about 14km to get there. I won't tell you where it was or it it will be overcrowded with people seeking solitude next time.

[Happy Pirate]

For me it's simple. The lower the number of visible people (or obvious signs thereof), the better. Ten days out bush, off track, without seeing anyone else is sheer bliss.

Clearly you are in the hard core group and as hypothesised earlier, a group that may not be of interest to the govt and fund allocation.

I'd say that there really isn't an 'optimal enjoyment' point as it varies wildly with the individual. For the govt/departments, it really is a mix of interests and objectives. Some for high volume tourism while others for conservation, which probably benefit the loners best. A halo effect.

"Clearly you are in the hard core group and as hypothesised earlier, a group that may not be of interest to the govt and fund allocation."

Actually I tink that's as un-nuanced as the original critisism.
Population numbers are constantly the elephant in the room.
We do have to cope with increaing population numbers and as an ecologist / landscape analyst I see short term solutions that don't adress the problems as part of the general response...
We dont even talk about the real issues in park management....

[newhue]

I think having been that isolation snob, to the hard core if it's not longer than 5 days I'm not interested, to the bloke who added to the global population; and then the yobbo with THAT 4x4, we are all loosing our freedom daily, at a rate as fast as global warming. I have been denied planned off track walk access due to OH&S issues for staff regardless of my experience, training, own responsibilities claims and insurance. Denied access for Indigenous sensitivity, though it was OK for the Government to take it away, but not Ok for me to visit. Seen remote camp sites closed that have been used all through the hey day of bushwalking in the 50s, but now apparently due to a rare frog finding is now closed. Walking routs/foot pads removed off maps, and short up to 3km walks on graded tracks near the toilets, day use area, and car park promoted instead. As a walker we are in ever changing times with ever shrinking access.

As car camper, bollards, bollards, bollards, gates, gates, gates. Shrinking access is growing faster than flower in spring. Not all 4x4's are yobs, but do accept there is much education on care for it or loose it is needed. The 4x4 community need to pull their socks up.

This fear of litigation from OH&S, personal injury on Crown land, and saving what is left from what has been raped in the last 227 years of settlement is encroaching on the joyfulness of life for many.

You hear little of capping numbers to manage, like the Overland Trk, Hinchinbrook Isl or the Arthurs now I believe. Instead, places like Cooloola Beach which is a stip of cost here in Qld, 30km long, allows 2800 campers every day all year long if possible. Many complain of the litter, habitat destruction, craziness of it, and volumes of people. But it seems the Governments like the money in the popular areas, and gate, close, or deny access to the non profitable hard to manage areas. Frasier Island is another. Capping numbers and raising fees for the smaller volume - better experience is perhaps the way to go as much as I don't like to pay more.

I often wished we would grow National Parks. Looking at the foot hills of the Main Range West of Brisbane, or the farmlands surrounding Mt Kaputa, or government purchased land around the failed Mary River Traverston dam idea, are some examples. Imagine buying failed, disused, or low profit farms and linking parks or extending parks through regeneration programmes of a national scale using local vegetation seeds stocks. Perhaps using prison labour, creating rural jobs, helping the planet, and enlarging the areas for flora and fauna to maintain species, and micro organism biodiversity. These areas can then be managed and divided into appropriate user group access if any, in regards to demands and stress levels of that activities. I once stood on Mt Field West and looked Nth Nth Wst up the valley where Gunns were on path to clear, and dreamed how cool it would be if I could walk to Cradle Mountain.

If Australians don't change what we are doing, access will become continually encroaching. Overcrowding like Europe will just evolve due to numbers using smaller and smaller areas that pay well and are easy to manage, and the experience will be what it will be. We will have little wild areas, and few reasonable native areas to enjoy, regardless of how easy one treads. We are not going too stop breading, we are not going to stop clearing; so we have to burn the candle at the other end to create balance. Just my 10c worth.