fast hiking : real thing or just a gear selling scam ?

[madmacca]

All within my running pack (and shown in the photo) I had 2.5L of liquid mostly electrolyte mix (1.5L bladder and 2x 500mL soft flasks on the chest - complete overkill for this run), Macpac thermal top and pants (top left), a TNF Flight Series fully seam sealed hooded rain coat (the little fluro green thing in top left of photo), TNF flight series fully seam sealed rain pants (the little black thing in top left), Macpac merino pullover (top center), merino beanie, lightweight gloves, PLB device, Silva compass, AyUp head lights, Petzl back up LED head light, space blanket, conforming bandage, heavy crepe bandage, triangular bandage, diclofenac and paracetamol, a small rubbish bag, whistle, map and photocopy of guide book and food (gels and chomps shown, plus a sandwich and choc/whatever we want).

Creeping moses,

Thanks for posting. It's certainly been an education to me as to just how much gear you can get into your running vest. Clearly a lot of thought has gone into your setup.

One thing that doesn't appear in your list are matches/lighter/fire steel - if for some reason you had to spend the night out there, the ability to light a fire makes a BIG difference.

[wayno]

hmmm that running vest, whats it called? the tardis?

[creeping_moses]

One thing that doesn't appear in your list are matches/lighter/fire steel - if for some reason you had to spend the night out there, the ability to light a fire makes a BIG difference.

Yeah these would usually be carried. Waterproof matches and some soft fire lighter things is the go to for me. I didn't carry any on Roland so didn't put it in that photo. Definitely should be part of the safety kit I agree and most adventure races I have done actually supply these things to athletes.

hmmm that running vest, whats it called? the tardis?

I should really do a packing/unpacking video to prove how all this stuff fits in as people all the time outright say it's not possible (I understand you're comment is tongue in cheek). I think my setup is pretty compact but if you look at the guys who run top 10 in Ultra-Trail World Tour events their stuff is even more compact and they are carrying all the mandatory gear.

[wayno]

my windproof vest is tiny, easily fits into my fist packed down its tiny, 45 grams of material, actually i havent seen it for a while, its so small, I think i might have lost it ...
the latest ultralight gear can be pretty compact..

[Lophophaps]

hmmm that running vest, whats it called? the tardis?

This is my understanding: Time Away Running Definitely Is Salubrious.

[Turfa]

Whilst wandering around on Roland for a few days, I passed a young couple who were doing the whole range - from Olivers Rd to Kings Rd - in a day, wearing running shorts, short-sleeved tops and running shoes, and carrying just water. No jackets, no emergency gear, no snack food, no cameras, no nothing. On a cool breezy day.
OK, there was a time I could have done that, but what is the point? Bragging rights?
Meh, I'm getting old. But seriously, it only takes one little thing to go wrong, and you're in all sorts of strife. I'd rather slow down and feel the scoparia.

I don't understand why so many people, when they see someone travelling fast & light, automatically assume that;
a) They are not properly prepared...and
b) They couldn't possibly be doing it simply because they enjoy it.

creeping_moses has posted a gear list that is significantly better than what most plodding day hikers probably carry, and it sounds like they had a great day !!

Keep an open mind & keep learning !

[Alittleruff]

I wish I could copy your pack creeping mosses

Just another newbie question- TNF (the north face?) which jacket & pants do you carry. The ones on The North Face look heaps bulkier.

I'm a day walker... and I hardly take anything! Seriously. Truthfully. I've got three children, so we tend not to venture out on 'hard' or 'long' bush walking adventures. It will hopefully progress as they get older. But only so many kilometers I can do, while carrying a baby. When I am able to run... I run solo... that is kind of the appeal for me. I can't be out for too long, I've got children to look after. So I run

[Drummo62]

I have a foot in both camps having enjoyed both multi day hikes with full pack and ultra trail races over 100 miles. I enjoy both modes - so long as I'm out in the bush. I have the exact same Salamon running vest as creeping_moses and can attest that his gear would fit in. Probably half of those on the start line of a 100 mile race would have the same vest on - all packed with the mandatory gear. The Race Directors of the ultra trail races in Australia take safety extremely seriously and gear is checked pre-race. No gear = no start. This attitude to safety then filters through to training runs. I accept not necessarily to everyone but the bulk of serious trail ultra runners are very aware of being self sufficient.

Last weekend I hiked 75kms over 4 days in the Little Desert with a full pack and had a great time. I could have just as easily run the whole thing in a day and still had just as much enjoyment. Probably would have seen a bit less and taken a few less photos but still with a decent safety margin and it is a pretty cool feeling running over single track in the bush. Each to their own I say.

[creeping_moses]

TNF (the north face?) which jacket & pants do you carry. The ones on The North Face look heaps bulkier.

yep, TNF = The North Face (TNF100 is a 100km race in The Blue Mountains and they also do others around the world).

RE the jacket and pants. They are both fully seam sealed (a common requirement of race organisers) not just critically sealed.
https://www.thenorthface.com/shop/mens- ... ker-jacket
http://www.trailmarket.com/en/over-pant ... pants.html

They do women's versions I am sure.

[Alittleruff]

Drummo62- You know that is a little bit awesome! Go you!

Yes, I've seen the Solomon vests everywhere that I see trail runners photos. Not so much for the runners that did the 50km at Walhalla! There were drink stations after all And they... were fast! Well the ones I caught up with at the later time slot for the day, they were running the 50km's in less than 5 hours. I looked in awe as they passed me on the 10km track! WOW.

The Solomon pack was out of my price range though, and for a starter pack, I'm hoping the UD Jenny will get me through

I suppose, some people just don't get the attraction to running. That is cool too. But please, don't stop us mid race, in your FWD, asking us a heap of questions, before covering us in dust as you speed off. Yep.... I had no idea that people could actually be that rude. I thought the couple that stopped us in that fashion at Walhalla were genuinely asking for directions or needed to tell us about the course/ hazards ect. I didn't think their attitude was the hazard. I'm sure they had a laugh about messing with our run and times. Now I look back, scary stuff. A whistle is a good idea.

[wayno]

this one is similar to the north face jacket, has a napoleon pocket and stuffs into its own pocket , has a loop to clip it onto a belt etc

http://mountainrunning.com.au/outdoor-r ... ii-jacket/

[Alittleruff]

Do you mean I couldn't get away with this at 10% of the price. https://www.aldi.com.au/en/special-buys ... ng-jacket/

Just thinking! Or hoping that there would be beginner priced options out there.

[Alittleruff]

My favorite jacket to run in at the moment is like this- it's wind proof...kind of... breathable? yes.
http://www.wiggle.co.uk/asics-womens-woven-jacket-ss14/

I also have this option- A lot sweatier to run in, a bit bulkier.
http://www.diadora.com.au/sports/womens ... -5962.html

Oh dear........ running just got expensive!

[creeping_moses]

Can definitely go cheaper. I wasn't meaning to suggest you buy the ones I have. For entry-level competition in trail races the ones you link to would be fine as long as they pass the gear check requirements (sealed seams and hood etc). More expensive options tend to be better fabrics, lighter and cut for aggressive racing of the sort more competitive athletes want, but of course you do sometime feel you're paying for a brand and look. These aspects have an influence in this sport like all other sports and was what this whole thread was originally all about, so be aware of it.

[wayno]

cheaper rain gear tends to allow less moisture out, sometimes a lot less moisture out,
when its really wet that doesnt actually make as much difference.
at the end of the day you buy what you can or are willing to pay for.

[Alittleruff]

Found this one. https://thenorthface.com.au/product/wom ... e-jacket-3

Would it be a small enough to pack? Would it do the job... Well. My Diadora jacket is horrible to run in. The Asics one I love, but has run tech material panels down the sides (like running t-shirt material) so it isn't 100% water proof. I just thought I's ask what you lovely trail runners thought. Because I'm so new to this, it's terrible. Oddly, the Australian Adventure festival web site says nothing of jackets needing to be seam sealed, or a particular quality on their web site. Are these requirements only for longer runs, like Marathon or Ultra's?

Your help would be much appreciated. Thank you.

[robertoman]

I have a fabulous Montane H2O rain jacket. Light as a feather and packs down small. It has kept me dry on endless walks and endurance events when I have been out all night. I found it by cruising outdoor shops (exorbitantly priced), then went home and bought one for far less online.

There is nothing wrong with Ultimate Direction gear - they have some very nice features and lots of my friends use them.

I have a running buddy who once sat me down and showed me what he carries, and how he packs so small - a game changer for me. Like all things, you simply pick up tips along the way and refine - most people (especially runners and walkers) usually have ample advice to dispense and are more than willing to give it

I do find the one area I need to be on top off is warmth, and real warmth does not always pack down small (however sealing it up in a rain jacket helps, but then you sweat...).

I have waterproof pants I picked up from ALDI - not the absolute best, not the smallest, but they work perfectly well for what I need, I rarely use them and and they were $13

I was never that interested in running until I heard about longer trail events, and how much walking, hill climbing, scrambling, mud, rain, river crossing can be involved. I was hooked after that.

[slparker]

wouldn't a windshirt be a better option than a shell to run in, even in rain? Not waterproof but keeps you warm whilst running.

I would literally die of heat exhaustion running in goretex. i don't even wear anything but shorts and a long sleeve base - even if it's below freezing. i admit altitude, fatigue and wind adds significantly to the mix.

keep the membrane for an emergency bivvy?

[Drummo62]

Found this one. https://thenorthface.com.au/product/wom ... e-jacket-3

Would it be a small enough to pack? Would it do the job... Well. My Diadora jacket is horrible to run in. The Asics one I love, but has run tech material panels down the sides (like running t-shirt material) so it isn't 100% water proof. I just thought I's ask what you lovely trail runners thought. Because I'm so new to this, it's terrible. Oddly, the Australian Adventure festival web site says nothing of jackets needing to be seam sealed, or a particular quality on their web site. Are these requirements only for longer runs, like Marathon or Ultra's?

Your help would be much appreciated. Thank you.

That jacket would pass the mandatory gear check for trail running. Provided a jacket is waterproof and seam sealed it will be approved pre race gear checks. Most trail runners don't run in the jacket but once you slow down either due to injury or fatigue you will be very grateful of a good quality jacket. The same applies if you are in exposed coastal areas or above the tree line.

To return to the OP's thread fast hiking is done in Aust & NZ but most of the ones I know of are usually trail runners running an established walking track. See this link for the Fastest known times for various trails in Aust & NZ. http://fastestknowntime.proboards.com/board/1/australia-new-zealand

[Alittleruff]

Thank you for all the help! I rang the event organizers who said, any jacket would be acceptable. I don't run fast, between 6 minutes & 7 minutes a kilometer. So I do get cold. Especially if I am running in the dark, and in the rain during winter. Or early mornings in thick fog. Occasionally, in gail force winds and hail... but not on purpose! Around town with a running group. I generally wear a long sleeve marino wool top for those occasions. If you have a thermal top & light jacket, I think you would be able to stay quite warm & dry.

I've signed up! I'm doing it!

[forest]

Now this is my kind thread. I've been vacant from here for a while and look what I stumble on !!!

As a convert from a 90kg bushwalker 2 years ago (But very into UL stuff) into a 66kg trail runner now the journey sure is interesting.
I think coming from a walker into the faster stuff has been great. But I knew what can go wrong, what I needed to be comfy with gear etc.
Lots of people have no idea as they have done a few road races and get into the trail scene underprepared. But that's why races have mandatory kit I guess.
My take is during a race mandatory kit is great. There are plenty of volunteer's and a dedicated rescue crew and plan on hand. It's in training we have to be careful.
For me and most I know we just train and run with pretty much the mandatory kit anyway as we understand the risks if injured. But some stupidly don't.

What I will say is it's the same for all people in the outdoors.
I'd rather a skinny *&^%$#@! runners chance of survival with mandatory kit if something went amiss compared to a handbag wielding tourist on Cradle Mt ?? (Which is probably more common)

Something was very very apparent to me and a mate a few months ago when we went for a "run" up into the snow on Barrington Tops.
Yes we looked lightly equipped, but were we ?? We were both warm, had a full set of dry clothes and full waterproof outer layers. Plus plenty of food.
The same couldn't be said for the dozen odd people we passed on the way up in the drizzle, high wind and what became falling snow.
I'd say 9 of those 12 people had no idea (one had a umbrella lol). They just wanted to see snow. Issue was they decided to walk up the Corker Trail with only a 1/4 clue.
Once we reached Carey's Peak there were 4 people huddled freezing in the little lean to hut thing. They all questioned our sanity in running up but soon they realised we were warmer than them and actually had more and better gear than them. Heck I even gave my space blanket to one guy that looked border line hypothermic. Two of them were trying to melt snow in a water bottle stuffed down there shirts as they were thirsty ?? So appearances are far from what it seems with trail runners. Now I'm not saying all are the same. As with all groups people will do dumb stuff. But I think for the main part trail runners are pretty safe.

I do think the whole "Fasthike" "Fastpack" craze is building momentum. From my take this is awesome, in the right hands and conditions.
Just this morning I ordered a Ultimate Direction Fastpack 20, pretty much the running vest harness I wear on all my trail runs, but with a slightly bigger rear pack.
I'll be having me some fastpacking action in no time !!! Well if I can squeeze my hammock and little cooker in the thing.
It's gunna be tight but I think I'll just get it in for some overnight trips. As gear gets smaller and lighter there certainly is an application for it.

[vicrev]

If running up & down mountains is your thing,OK just do it.. ...I like to take my time,look around & smell the roses,If it takes me an hour to walk 1k so what ?....Fast hiking?not for me.. ..I think maybe you would be looking at your watch more than admiring the countryside,but,for each his own...... .....

[corvus]

Some folks Run the OLT in around 11 hours personally cannot see the pleasure in that however to each their own in our free World eh

[wayno]

each to their own
unless the track is dead smooth, i think you're more likely to be looking where you're feet are going when you're running, its far easier to stop and start when walking than running, theres more inertia lost when stopping and starting running , so runners will try and focus on maintaining their pace, walking its easier to have enough time to look up and around between rough patches on the ground and have longer to look around, i look at some places, they are so scenic, running seems a waste to just rip through all that scenery, especially if you dont get many chances to visit a place.

[Orion]

Back to the age old debate...

[Nuts]

Old Age debate?
It's got to be less destructive on your body than road running, they may need small horns inc if fast-packing becomes widely popular.
Patience and a smile though, none of that inner city attitude transferred.

[north-north-west]

Whilst wandering around on Roland for a few days, I passed a young couple who were doing the whole range - from Olivers Rd to Kings Rd - in a day, wearing running shorts, short-sleeved tops and running shoes, and carrying just water. No jackets, no emergency gear, no snack food, no cameras, no nothing. On a cool breezy day.
OK, there was a time I could have done that, but what is the point? Bragging rights?
Meh, I'm getting old. But seriously, it only takes one little thing to go wrong, and you're in all sorts of strife. I'd rather slow down and feel the scoparia.

I don't understand why so many people, when they see someone travelling fast & light, automatically assume that;
a) They are not properly prepared...and
b) They couldn't possibly be doing it simply because they enjoy it.

creeping_moses has posted a gear list that is significantly better than what most plodding day hikers probably carry, and it sounds like they had a great day !!

Keep an open mind & keep learning !

I'm just being old and grumpy. Of course they're getting something out of it. But do you have any idea how it feels to not be able to do that sort of thing any more? It's sooooo depressing . . .

[Orion]

I mean the notion that if you go fast you don't see anything or smell any roses or whatever. It's an old discussion that never gets resolved.

[wayno]

I mean the notion that if you go fast you don't see anything or smell any roses or whatever. It's an old discussion that never gets resolved.

they see the scenery when they look at their gopro footage after

[Alittleruff]

Well I get to see the scenery. Not all of it is running And quite often, being a mum of three children, one who is still breastfeeding, I wouldn't be able to carry my baby and a pack and take a long leisurely stroll through the bush. I loved Walhalla Wound Up, because I have not been able to do those tracks in the past. I had been looking at them for ages when we go there as a family, but I couldn't carry my baby up the steep sections and many stairs or push a pram. So you know what I did.. I didn't. Not until I started running, and suddenly there were options. I had 'my thing' happening. My hobby. And because I'm a mum, and had small dependent children, I can't be away from my family for half a day let alone take a few days for me. We also run a business, and my husband can't have days off to look after the kids. Generally he works 6 long days a week. So as far as stopping and appreciating the view, well, I probably wouldn't have got to experience any of the view in the past year had it not been for beginning a running journey and joining our local running club.

And some of the guys you see running are AMAZING. Seriously, runners come in all shapes, sizes, and ages. Brian Glover, was the last man in for the 50km at Walhalla this year. But, he is EPIC, running at his age. From his FB page in 2013 "took it up at age 54 to lose weight, lost 20kg kept on walking now age 71 this year having completed 134 marathons and 57 ultra's all walked, Have plans for another 9 this year." THAT IS INSPIRATIONAL. He must be 73 now.
One of the coolest runners I know is Barry Higgins. From the club newsletter "The most inspiring effort by any local runner was by Barry Higgins. Barry
completed his first Walhalla 50km at the age of 64 in 2002. He has competed in every Walhalla 50km up to 2013 only missing 2006. He was 75 when he completed his last Walhalla 50km and although he has missed 2014 and 2015 he still inspires to do another one. He holds the local record of 11 Walhalla 50km completed." He is still running strong, and does club runs and park runs regularly... and like many others, I can't keep up with his pace. And there are many, many more examples!

I really hope that I am as fit as some of these lovely people when I am in my 70's. I really love the fact that for me, it indicates that age shouldn't define what we are capable of. I really enjoy running, and no longer stress about what my body looks like, but appreciate what it can do. And, I don't really think it matters if that means Bushwalking, Hiking, Running, Playing golf or Pole dancing! Not that I pole dance, but if that is your thing, more power to you!