Holiday and walking into a deep freezer

[GPSGuided]

Well, a last minute holiday has been organized for later next week with tickets and all... Then checked the weather, daily high of -15 and low of -28 degrees. Ouch, ouch! Fortunately there's no high wind predicted.

So now I am starting to panic a bit. What do the good forumites suggest in terms of strategies for dealing with the cold? There'll likely to be a fair bit of outdoors walking but nothing out in the wild. City, parkland, nearby forests etc but generally out in the open. Thinking of clothing, shoes as well as photo gears under these conditions. Advice and suggestions are really appreciated!

[Moondog55]

Want to borrow my Antarctic parka?
Seriously what sizes are you all?
I have that cheap down jacket on sale Ladies generous 12 if layering/14 over T-shirt
First line of defense is always decent underwear [ winter weight of course] and a windproof tho, Warm hats and gloves and footwear.
Perhaps a quick visit to Uniqlo and a down parka each would be a good investment
PM me if you want

[Moondog55]

At those temperatures the ground may well be very iced up, foot chains or NEOS over shoes with the studded sole perhaps
https://www.overshoe.com/Pages/default.aspx
You probably already own most of what you need tho.
A combination of winter long johns and a lined tracksuit with a woolly jumper/lightweight fleece and a LW down parka/jacket should be more than enough provided you have a decent windproof to go over the top when needed
Keep the camera at a constant cold temperature if possible but keep the batteries warm

[stry]

Well, a last minute holiday has been organized for later next week with tickets and all... Then checked the weather, daily high of -15 and low of -28 degrees. Ouch, ouch! Fortunately there's no high wind predicted.

So now I am starting to panic a bit. What do the good forumites suggest in terms of strategies for dealing with the cold? There'll likely to be a fair bit of outdoors walking but nothing out in the wild. City, parkland, nearby forests etc but generally out in the open. Thinking of clothing, shoes as well as photo gears under these conditions. Advice and suggestions are really appreciated!

I bet the tickets were cheap

[GPSGuided]

Thanks for the replies. MD55, really appreciate your offer and I've replied your PM. On those overshoes, I am not sure they are readily available here in Oz. Great advice on the camera, hope the glass won't freeze and crack out in the cold but will remember to flick the battery and keep that in my pocket.

Stry, it wasn't so much the ticket but the time availability that led to this last minute search for the freeze. There are no 'cheap' tickets in the school holidays, an absolute pain when the family is stuck in the school term cycle. A few more years to go.

[Moondog55]

No Australian agent for the NEOS at all. I am told in the rest of the world everybody buys cheap "Moonboots" and chucks them out at the end of every cold season unless there is a tradition of mukluks or felt boots
I'm trying to guess where you are headed tho.
Japan? Northern China? Austria/Switzerland/Italian Alps/Chamonix?
In any European country there should be plenty of markets where cheap cold weather clothing should be available and if China then new stuff is apparently very cheap
The USA has just started the discount cycle as it has been stupidly warm and wet and people haven't been buying new winter clothing

[Stroller]

Sports pursuit always have good deals on winter sports clothing. They are good to shop with. If you haven't much time to wait for arrival, communicate with them and they might recommend something from a sale that's about to end sooner rather than later when all the parcels go out.

[wayno]

pay attention to your extremities and stop any draughts getting in the neck and sleeves., its not that bad as long as you are clothed properly

[GPSGuided]

Hitting Harbin in the far north-east of China for their annual snow and ice carving festival. The latitude is similar to Dunedin in NZ but far colder with its proximity to Siberia. Given it was a last minute arrangement and will be relatively rushed, I don't have any time for mail orders and shopping whilst over there. Given all the advice, I think we will be ok. Given I have had absolutely no experiences of anything below -10 deg, just have no concept of -25 or worse and the clothing required. Fingers crossed there won't be too much wind. As for extremity protection, I'm still trying to work out a solution. Hoping double socks and leather hiking boots can handle it.

[wayno]

unless its windy theres not that much difference between the temps once you're covered up. if it were minus forty, that would be different

[GPSGuided]

-18 to -34 and sunny expected, no prediction of the wind condition for the time I'll be there. Otherwise today's temp range -16 to -29 with 5km/h wind, wind chill suggested to be -35!

[ithomas]

Hi
I have worked in Harbin and elsewhere in the region. It will be cold! Boots with thick soles. Double socks. Thin gloves to be worn under a pair of mitts which can dangle on a cord around your neck. Thermal underware and layer up from there. Most importantly, a good quality woolen scarf for your lips and nose and a warm hat/cap/beanie with ear flaps. Lots of places to buy clothes in the city but it can be difficult to find out where shops are located. Ask your host or hotel manager. Because of the edgy history and proximity to Russia there are many Soviet reminders, including vast quantities of vodka and other dangerous spirits that are consumed on most social occasions. Beware! Plenty of spuds and noodles to eat as well. Not so much rice and spice as you would find down South.
You will enjoy yourself.
Ian

[Moondog55]

OK LW gloves with cheap Kathmandu fingerless over the top then any sort of shelled mitten will take care of the hands
Feet may be OK in those leather hiking boots if they are loose enough to wear 2 pair of warm sox without cramping the feet but adding a layer to the bottoms can be very effective so if there is room for thick footbeds I can recommend the reflective ones if you also add a layer of fibreglass mesh under them
http://www.bogong.com.au/superfeet-hotpink-d.html
I found they made a big difference but my winter boots did have plenty of room to add them and don't forget the bread bag trick
As Wayno says a scarf around the neck is the equal of a layer of clothing
At that festival I assume that while you will be moving around the exertion won't be hard; therefore not generating massive amounts of heat and sweat.
Legs 3 layers, winter long underwear, any LW insulating layer but windproof layer essential IMO but almost anything that blocks most of the wind will do,
Torso 4 layers but if one of those layers was a warm ski parka then the normal nominal 3 layers should do, if the middle layer was equal to Polartec 300
Take an extra scarf each so if need be you can cover the mouth and nose and breath through that, it makes big difference I have found
2 hats or even better a LW balaclava or Finnish cowl under the beanie
Please take pictures, I am sure the newsreels and magazines do not do the festival justice
As before If I can lend you anything just message me

[GPSGuided]

Thanks guys for the continuing advice. Great local knowledge Ian and amazed that someone here has been there.

Presently I have the following,
- Torso: 4 layers with thermal, fleece, down jacket and shell. Have a down vest on standby too.
- Legs: 2-3 layers with thermal, soft-shell stretch pants and rain pants. Alternatively, thermal and a pair of SOS padded ski pants.
- Feet: Leather hiking boots with 2 socks.
- Hands: Combo of fleece gloves, padded ski gloves and a pair of OR Revel shell mitts as the outer.
- Head&Neck: Combo of OR fleece neck warmer, fleece cap and a merino woolen skullcap, plus hood from the shell jacket.

At present I am not too sure of the adequacy of my head gears yet. Still thinking and possibly more shopping later today.

Yes, very much looking forward to visiting the festival and getting a taste of food (and vodka) from the North-East. Don't know how much walking we will get in but will certainly try to stay on an active itinerary to keep warm. Ultimately I suspect it'll depend on how much the party can endure the cold and stay outdoors. As for the photography, it'll be a contest b/n my desires for great images and my cold endurance. I am keen!

[Moondog55]

Thanks guys for the continuing advice. Great local knowledge Ian and amazed that someone here has been there.

Presently I have the following,
- Torso: 4 layers with thermal, fleece, down jacket and shell. Have a down vest on standby too.
- Legs: 2-3 layers with thermal, soft-shell stretch pants and rain pants. Alternatively, thermal and a pair of SOS padded ski pants.
- Feet: Leather hiking boots with 2 socks.
- Hands: Combo of fleece gloves, padded ski gloves and a pair of OR Revel shell mitts as the outer.
- Head&Neck: Combo of OR fleece neck warmer, fleece cap and a merino woolen skullcap, plus hood from the shell jacket.

At present I am not too sure of the adequacy of my head gears yet. Still thinking and possibly more shopping later today.

If you have one of those nice light merino woollen jumpers or even better a cashmere jumper add it in, ditto for the others in the family
I find that the UL extra layer close to the skin made all the difference but I do recommend a windproof layer over the long johns [ mine is the Montane windshirt but there are plenty of them on the market] Beanies are an Op-shop special for me often but my collection of head wear doesn't really need any additions but I have something like this
http://www.bogong.com.au/outdoor-clothi ... ava-1.html

and it is very good indeed for very little weight and space

[GPSGuided]

Once upon a time I had one of those Russian fur hat with pull down flaps on the sides. Need it back.

[wayno]

shame possums are protected there, in NZ you can get possum fur hats..

[GPSGuided]

It's too warm here to need possum hats in any volume...

[Moondog55]

Follow up needed
What happened etc

[GPSGuided]

Ok, we got back alive with thanks to all the advices here.

As it turned out, our trip coincided with a major arctic cold air current that swept down East Asia and North America. It was -20 to -35 when we toured Harbin during the day and into the evening watching the snow-ice festival. As indicated and reinforced by my relatives who have worked further north, it's all fine as long as we kept active. It only got uncomfortable when we stopped and ducked for warmth in cafes and shops. We were also fortunate that it was largely calm. Our layers would have been inadequate if there was significant wind. Basically, I was in 4 layers for the trunk (base, fleece pullover, down jacket and membrane shell). For down below, 3 layers (base, padded ski pants, rain pants) with single woollen socks and boots. The one piece that made the most obvious difference was an OR fleece neck warmer. Anyway, Harbin was an experience to remember.





After returning to Beijing, we climbed one major section of the Great Wall in -15 to -20C condition. As suggested, we worked up a sweat on the 9km hike wearing 3 layers (a heavier fleece in the middle). Hate to imagine what the soldiers 600 years ago had to endure with what they had guarding the wall.





Coming back, already have plans to hike and climb a wild section of the wall on another trip, but in milder weather. That section of the wall (Jiankou) meanders along the crest in the distance.




PS. I should save a few of these for the 'Where is' thread. But name the frozen river. The ice structures with the tower going up to 40m were constructed wholly with ice blocks from this river, all done within a week and a bit in mid December. All comes down in late Feb.

[GPSGuided]

.

[Moondog55]

Thanx
More down needed for the next trip then

[GPSGuided]

Well, a thicker down jacket or an an additional down vest I'd say. If the wind starts to blow, then I suspect only those heavy full length overcoats would work. What's true also was that buying local makes sense as even Beijing doesn't have the right gears for the northern weather while there's plenty to choose from in Harbin.

One annoying thing was with the iPhone. It died multiple times in the condition. Once, I had to go into a mall to warm it up in order to get in touch with other members of our party. Surprisingly, my dSLR was left outside throughout and the battery and the mechanisms worked without problem for a whole day.