Everest climbing season

[Giddy_up]

Climbing season is about to start at Everest, let's hope that it's a much safer season than the last two.

2014 had 17 deaths and 2015 had 22 but they all mostly happened under very unusual circumstances. If you're keen to have a go, you have about a 50% chance of success, you also have a 4% chance of not coming home.

I wonder how many people will attempt Everest this year?

[fairman]

hope all that do attend have a great time, but after reading Into Thin Air, I honestly don't get the appeal of Everest at all. In addition to it crawling with people at base camp, the hike itself seems to sound thoroughly unenjoyable. Realise it would be hard to make scaling the highest mountain in the world "enjoyable", but I know i can go and thoroughly unenjoy myself in a range of places in Australia for a far lower cost...

[clance]

Climbing season is about to start at Everest, let's hope that it's a much safer season than the last two.

2014 had 17 deaths and 2015 had 22 but they all mostly happened under very unusual circumstances. If you're keen to have a go, you have about a 50% chance of success, you also have a 4% chance of not coming home.

I wonder how many people will attempt Everest this year?

Not bad odds really
Respect for all who try


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[wayno]

Lhotse face closed

https://thehimalayantimes.com/nepal/ice ... t-everest/

pessimists view of climbing everest
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/travel/trave ... -peak.html

[Moondog55]

I would have said realists view myself but I enjoyed reading.
I do agree tho that tackling Everest as a "First summit" is totally wrong but compared to traveling to Antarctica it seems cheap

[wayno]

i know someone who's summited Everest, he had ten years solid alpine climbing experience behind him before he climbed Everest and it took two attempts. he suffered Pulmonary odema during aclimatisation, he wasnt certain at all that he would make it to the top. I know another experienced mountaineer who failed to climb it, mainly due to bad weather, he suffered a lot on the attempt at the summit and had to be short roped back down.
alan arnette says on his blog it took him several tries to summit. One time he realised he wasnt fit enough, then he went back he was fit enough but he wasnt prepared for what he would have to endure mentally and failed again.

[Happy Pirate]

I just saw 'Sherpa' yesterday.
It was eye-opening and slightly sickening to see Sherpas carrying Televisions, tables and chairs and other absurd luxuries to the base camp whilst the 'climbers' carried daypacks on easier routes.
Not to mention carrying hot towels to peoples' tents to wake them at base camp and the choked highways of climbers queuing to reach the summit.
I'll never summit Everest (especially after seeing this) but it seems to me the experience should be transformational and take you as far out of your comfort zone as you can possibly endure.

A fantastic movie about (for me) Western privilege vs. native experience and the cheapening of difficult experience.

Phillip Adams interviewed the director, Jennifer Peedom:
http://www.abc.net.au/radionational/programs/latenightlive/trouble-on-the-mountain/7327174

cheers
Steve

[Giddy_up]

I have a friend who climbed the north east ridge and made the summit before the Chinese closed it. He was very experienced and had time on other big mountains and trained so hard before going. They did lose someone on their expedition. My friend described the push to the summit as the most intense mind game he ever played and said if you weren't ready mentally you would never make it.

If you heard someone at base camp saying "I hope I can make it" they never did. You have to be prepared to lose toes, fingers, nose, friends, life and keep going.


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[wayno]

yup , if you think paying the best part of 100k is going to guarantee you the summit, it doesnt, it increases the safety but it never rules it out. the guiding company cant give you all the skills and ability you need to get to the top. a lot of that has to come from yourself first. I see veteran 800m summiter Alan Arnette has had to be medivaced from camp 2 on the south side by helicopter with a severe lung infection. thats near the limit of what the helicopters can operate at. my brother in law had to turn around at 6000m on a 6500m peak for the same reason..

[GPSGuided]

How much of the numbers could be attributed to Nepal's need for mountaineering tourism dollars? Are there other mountaineering Meccas that can draw the same crowd?

[wayno]

theres a fee imposed by the nepalese govt for a permit for each climber for a high altitude peak, US11k in the high season, it was 25k. nepal are desperate for the money the govt have been dragging the chain on anything that might reduce the amount of people coming in.
but the money goes nowhere, it doesnt go back to the people. corruption is rife, tourism ministers change regularly and they all pilfer the money, when each new one comes in they want there cut, which lead to a big resistance to allowing a peak permit to be carried over to another year if you failed to summit, you had to pay the fee all over again, but now you can do that for at least a year..

the other 8000m peaks in Nepal are $1800 ...
Nepal has the most 8000m peaks in it so if you're serious about doing those you'll be going to Nepal repeatedly
theres money to be made guiding on everest so the guiding companies keep coming back. they have consistent employment for months because of the slow approach and aclimatisation time

[GPSGuided]

So they are all in the game.

[RonK]

I just saw 'Sherpa' yesterday.
It was eye-opening and slightly sickening to see Sherpas carrying Televisions, tables and chairs and other absurd luxuries to the base camp whilst the 'climbers' carried daypacks on easier routes.

Sickening? It would be wrong to form an opinion based on this movie. You need to go there yourself.

It's pretty unlikely that people shown carrying TV's were Sherpas. The Sherpa people are for the most part relatively affluent and don't need to carry to earn an income.

It's also quite unlikely that they were sherpas - guides (not necessarily Sherpas) with climbing skills who work on the mountains.

Nope, they were porters - unskilled workers who earn a living carrying a load. Yes, apart from the odd yak train or chopper run, the only way anything gets into the high Himalaya is on someone's back.

As for climbers carrying backpacks - it's generally frowned upon to carry your own gear. It's expected you give a porter an opportunity to earn an income by carrying your gear for you. Carrying a TV to base camp may well feed a porters family. I do question this event actually happened, but it's true I have seen a refrigerator with legs on the trail.

I have no problem at all with having gear carried so long as the loads are reasonable, the porters are paid a fair rate, are well-treated and are provided with appropriate clothing and footwear for the altitude.

True there are unscrupulous operators who rip off the Nepali staff and treat them poorly, but there are plenty such people right here too.

Perhaps the most objectionable failure on the part of the climbing expeditions is their failure to publicly acknowledge the contributions made by the sherpa guides in particular.

[Giddy_up]

GPS, it's all very dodgy with lots of people on the take. I honestly believe that the climbers would much prefer to place the money in the hands of locals. The real problems are the logistics of climbing mountains like this. I know that some have opulent inclusions but the bulk of climbers don't but the amount of equipment that is required is of biblical proportions. A team of 18 climbers will need in the order of 40 tonnes of gear and supplies which must be staged out across 29,000 ft. Just for perspective, when you walk out the door in the morning, look up and see if you can see a contrail left by a jet plane. That contrail will be around 29,000 ft in the air. Now climb up to it

Sherpa are pivotal in getting the gear where it's needed but also just running camps etc.... Sherpa don't just carry, they climb, cook, fix ropes and ladders, break trail on heavy snow days, get your *&%$#! down when it all goes to *&%$#!, the list goes on and on, but above all, Sherpa are brilliant climbers for the most part and their advice is pretty sage. The Sherpa also bring the spiritual side to any expedition. Everest is "mother" and they respect and revere her in so many ways, experienced climbers pay homage also but your cashed up climbers probably think the ceremonies are all a bit quaint.


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[Happy Pirate]

I just saw 'Sherpa' yesterday.
It was eye-opening and slightly sickening to see Sherpas carrying Televisions, tables and chairs and other absurd luxuries to the base camp whilst the 'climbers' carried daypacks on easier routes.

Sickening? It would be wrong to form an opinion based on this movie. You need to go there yourself.

It's pretty unlikely that people shown carrying TV's were Sherpas. The Sherpa people are for the most part relatively affluent and don't need to carry to earn an income.

It's also quite unlikely that they were sherpas - guides (not necessarily Sherpas) with climbing skills who work on the mountains.

Nope, they were porters - unskilled workers who earn a living carrying a load. Yes, apart from the odd yak train or chopper run, the only way anything gets into the high Himalaya is on someone's back.

As for climbers carrying backpacks - it's generally frowned upon to carry your own gear. It's expected you give a porter an opportunity to earn an income by carrying your gear for you. Carrying a TV to base camp may well feed a porters family. I do question this event actually happened, but it's true I have seen a refrigerator with legs on the trail.

I have no problem at all with having gear carried so long as the loads are reasonable, the porters are paid a fair rate, are well-treated and are provided with appropriate clothing and footwear for the altitude.

True there are unscrupulous operators who rip off the Nepali staff and treat them poorly, but there are plenty such people right here too.

Perhaps the most objectionable failure on the part of the climbing expeditions is their failure to publicly acknowledge the contributions made by the sherpa guides in particular.

Nonsense on Stilts
I said I was slightly sickened. Are you telling me what to feel? I already said I will never go there.
[To Paraphrase you]It would be wrong to form an opinion based on reading a post without having watched the movie. You need to watch the movie yourself.

'Sherpa' is an ethnic group not a job description. And 'Nope' they weren’t porters. And they were all relying on the climbing season for income. Again - watch the movie.
The TV was shown being unpacked at Basecamp. I don't care who carried it (but at a guess - they weren’t rich Westerners) it's the fact that it was there at all that offended me. Along with the hot towels delivered to climbers' at sunrise.
I mean - seriously - if we 'rough it' to walk or climb a local trek, and we want a valid and important experience by taking on something bigger and harder; shouldn't the experience be as challenging as the accomplishment? Otherwise we should just helicopter people to the summit and give them a certificate.
And -Yes - you should actually watch the movie before levelling such criticism
And of course I still have a problem with any people claiming to have 'climbed' a mountain if most of the work was done by someone else. As I'll reiterate as you seemed to have missed in your (I'm guessing self-defencive) attack:
'it seems to me the experience should be transformational and take you as far out of your comfort zone as you can possibly endure.'

Best
Steve

[Giddy_up]

'it seems to me the experience should be transformational and take you as far out of your comfort zone as you can possibly endure.'

Best
Steve

Hi Steve, being at base camp makes most people ill one way or another, camp one is tough, two is the work horse camp where you rest and resupply, three is genuine acclimatization and at camp four you are dying, literally. At 26,000 ft your body is eating itself from within, deprived of oxygen, your brain shuts down and even simple things take Herculean effort. Everest takes anyone who attempts to climb it way beyond any conceivable comfort zone you or I can envisage.

Yes it's commercial, probably more than we would like but there is no other way to do 8,000ers'. Gear has to go up, you have a window of weather to do so and many hands make light work and the Sherpa like the prestige that comes with being part of the climbing team, especially if it's successful.

[Happy Pirate]

'it seems to me the experience should be transformational and take you as far out of your comfort zone as you can possibly endure.'

Best
Steve

Hi Steve, being at base camp makes most people ill one way or another, camp one is tough, two is the work horse camp where you rest and resupply, three is genuine acclimatization and at camp four you are dying, literally. At 26,000 ft your body is eating itself from within, deprived of oxygen, your brain shuts down and even simple things take Herculean effort. Everest takes anyone who attempts to climb it way beyond any conceivable comfort zone you or I can envisage.

Yes it's commercial, probably more than we would like but there is no other way to do 8,000ers'.

I don't know what '8,000ers' means but none of this confronts the fact of the queue that was once a challenge has been turned into a westerner's Rich People Get To Climb Regardless.

[Giddy_up]

These are the 8,000ers

List of 8000m Peaks

These are the primary mountains in the world exceeding 8,000 Meters in height. Some of them have subsidiary peaks that are also 8,000m.

Name Height
Location
First Ascent


Everest 8,850m
29,035ft
Nepal/Tibet
1953; Sir E. Hillary, T. Norgay
K2 8,611m
28,250ft
Pakistan
1954; A. Compagnoni, L. Lacedelli
Kangchenjunga 8,586m
28,169ft
Nepal/India
1955; G. Band, J. Brown
Lhotse 8,516m
27,940ft
Nepal/Tibet
1956; F. Luchsinger, E. Reiss
Makalu 8,463m
27,766ft
Nepal
1955; J. Couzy, L. Terrary
Cho-Oyu 8,201m
26,906ft
Nepal/Tibet
1954; S. Joechler, H. Tichy, P. Dawa Lama
Dhaulagiri 8,167m
26,795ft
Nepal
1960; K. Diemberger, P. Diener, M. Dorji, E. Forrer, N. Dorji, A. Schelbert
Manaslu 8,156m
26,758ft
Nepal
1956; T. Imanishi, G. Norbu
Nanga Parbat 8,125m
26,660ft
Pakistan
1953; H. Buhl
Annapurna 8,091m
26,545ft
Nepal
1950; M. Herzog, L. Lachenal
Gasherbrum I 8,068m
26,470ft
Pakistan/China
1958; A. Kaufman, P. Schoening
Broad Peak 8,047m
26,400ft
Pakistan/China
1957; H. Buhl, K. Diemberger, M. Schmuck, F. Witerstellar
Gasherbrum II 8,035m
26,360ft
Pakistan/China
1956; S. Larch, F. Moravec, H. Willenpart
Shishapangma 8,013m
26,291ft
China/Tibet
1964; H. Ching & nine climbers

I think your assumption that the people climbing are all millionaires, their not!!!

They are mostly people who have a dream, train hard, save hard and work hard so they can have their crack at that mountain. Lots of climbers make huge financial sacrifice to pursue their dreams of climbing these mountains and money has very little to do with it really.

Yes the odd millionaire has attempted to climb Everest, so have a quite a few postmen, garbage collectors, school teachers etc.

There are whole host of climbers who have dedicated their lives to making lots of the Himalaya, not just Everest a better place for the indigenous population and this work continues.


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[GPSGuided]

Thanks Giddy_up. Yes, I fully appreciate the volume of supply and work to get climbers up the Everest, hence my question on who are promoting for the volume of climbers going up there. No surprise on the damage to the environment. If we apply our common 'leave no trace' mantra, then the mountaineers are failing miserably, no?

[RonK]

Nonsense on Stilts
I said I was slightly sickened. Are you telling me what to feel? I already said I will never go there.
[To Paraphrase you]It would be wrong to form an opinion based on reading a post without having watched the movie. You need to watch the movie yourself.

'Sherpa' is an ethnic group not a job description. And 'Nope' they weren’t porters. And they were all relying on the climbing season for income. Again - watch the movie.
The TV was shown being unpacked at Basecamp. I don't care who carried it (but at a guess - they weren’t rich Westerners) it's the fact that it was there at all that offended me. Along with the hot towels delivered to climbers' at sunrise.
I mean - seriously - if we 'rough it' to walk or climb a local trek, and we want a valid and important experience by taking on something bigger and harder; shouldn't the experience be as challenging as the accomplishment? Otherwise we should just helicopter people to the summit and give them a certificate.
And -Yes - you should actually watch the movie before levelling such criticism
And of course I still have a problem with any people claiming to have 'climbed' a mountain if most of the work was done by someone else. As I'll reiterate as you seemed to have missed in your (I'm guessing self-defencive) attack:
'it seems to me the experience should be transformational and take you as far out of your comfort zone as you can possibly endure.'

Best
Steve

Wooee - what an over the top response. Seems a mere movie is apparently able engender enormous moral outrage.

Until recently, my wife guided trekking parties to Nepal every year back to 1985. Since we met and married, I also have made numerous further visits.

Whilst we always preferred to carry our own personal gear, far from feeling defensive it is with some satisfaction that I can say we have employed the services of guides, cooks and porters, some of whom returned years after year. We formed strong friendships with quite few of them, and can also say with a small amount of pride that we sponsored the education of a number of their children. We have also been long time supporters of the Nepal Australia Friendship Association. Our Nepal experience over many years has been quite immersive and with that comes a somewhat deeper perception about the state of affairs in Nepal.

I'm no mountaineer - but I have trekked the classic Everest route (amongst others) all the way from Jiri up to EBC, carrying my pack - and back down again. I've reached EBC on the 50th anniversary of the very day Tensing and Hillary reached the summit. For me that experience was certainly as challenging as the accomplishment.

Mountaineering is but a small aspect of the Nepal experience, but it does generate much needed income. The real experience is the interaction with the Nepalis, and the immersion in the vast landscape. As I've previously posted, you need to go there yourself.

And to recover from the recent disaster, Nepal needs people to go there and find out for themselves what it is really like.

[wayno]

the movie didnt really make any ention or differentiation over porters. in some places you might assume you were looking at a sherpa but it could have been a porter doing the load carrying, there are more porters carrying to base camp than sherpas.

[Giddy_up]

Thanks Giddy_up. Yes, I fully appreciate the volume of supply and work to get climbers up the Everest, hence my question on who are promoting for the volume of climbers going up there. No surprise on the damage to the environment. If we apply our common 'leave no trace' mantra, then the mountaineers are failing miserably, no?

GPS you're spot on with the leave no trace. There have been efforts to tidy the place up but it's not even close to being what it was.

The number of climbers has exploded with new gear, better guides and a change in mentality from the populous. What was once the doyen of seriously experienced mountaineers has been an item to be placed on someone's "bucket list". They assess the risk and look at the statistics and say, "I'm going to do that" and then they set about getting there. In the past, know how, gear, and desire didn't exist because the man on the street just thought that you died trying to climb Everest. A simple Google tells them otherwise now and they are prepared to take the risk and in doing so they created a commercial market and the rest is history. I also think our population is less risk averse and will almost do the impossible for the ultimate GoPro shot, which in turn fosters another group of dreamers to come up with something more insane than the last. All in all though, it's our exposure through media that had helped drive the "want of the people" to climb Everest. Books, movies, public speakers all inspire people, though their intent was probably to raise money for the authors next expedition.

[GPSGuided]

It's 'progress'! Next wait for space tourism and the orbital space junk that brings for the pleasure of a very few. (sarcasm)

[wayno]

one thing preventing a lot more deaths on everest now is highly improved weather forecasting. planning for summit day revolves around the forecasts.. the 1996 season resulted in dozens of summit climbers getting caught in a storm that was part of a vague forecast for the region, it wasnt known how bad it would be or where it would go or when it would hit..
that was the subject of the recent big screen everest movie. up until then the commercial climbing seasons had been lucky and hadnt had to deal with typical everest storms like that one..
As it is, borderline decisions get made around when to summit, severely cold weather can claim above average amounts peoples fingers and toes. traffic jams of people lead to people having to stand still for prolonged periods, the only way to stay warm enough to stave off frostbite is to keep moving as much as possible. the temptation to make a decent living for the guiding companies keeps them coming back, or the fact that they have made climbing everst into a habit forming institution. the guides are used to living with danger, their interpretation of danger is different to most peoples. danger of that level is an acceptable and desireable part of their lives. the adverse consequences of climbing everest can be severe.

[Giddy_up]

It's 'progress'! Next wait for space tourism and the orbital space junk that brings for the pleasure of a very few. (sarcasm)

Brings a whole new meaning to "moonwalking" though.

[Happy Pirate]

I just saw 'Sherpa' yesterday.
It was eye-opening and slightly sickening to see Sherpas carrying Televisions, tables and chairs and other absurd luxuries to the base camp whilst the 'climbers' carried daypacks on easier routes.

Sickening? It would be wrong to form an opinion based on this movie. You need to go there yourself.

It's pretty unlikely that people shown carrying TV's were Sherpas. The Sherpa people are for the most part relatively affluent and don't need to carry to earn an income.

It's also quite unlikely that they were sherpas - guides (not necessarily Sherpas) with climbing skills who work on the mountains.

Nope, they were porters - unskilled workers who earn a living carrying a load. Yes, apart from the odd yak train or chopper run, the only way anything gets into the high Himalaya is on someone's back.

As for climbers carrying backpacks - it's generally frowned upon to carry your own gear. It's expected you give a porter an opportunity to earn an income by carrying your gear for you. Carrying a TV to base camp may well feed a porters family. I do question this event actually happened, but it's true I have seen a refrigerator with legs on the trail.

I have no problem at all with having gear carried so long as the loads are reasonable, the porters are paid a fair rate, are well-treated and are provided with appropriate clothing and footwear for the altitude.

True there are unscrupulous operators who rip off the Nepali staff and treat them poorly, but there are plenty such people right here too.

Perhaps the most objectionable failure on the part of the climbing expeditions is their failure to publicly acknowledge the contributions made by the sherpa guides in particular.

I won't try to paraphrase the arguments the movie brings up. But I can't help thinking that ALL western guides - Driven by a dollar (or trying to make a Western Dollar) and trying to facilitate as many climbers as possible to the top of the mountain ASAP - will always be the problem. And therefore their perspective will be that of the exploiter.
Whenever I hear anyone say that the solution to a Third World Financial problem is more infiltration by Rich Western (profit generating companies) attention and then hear those same profit generators argue why they are 'GOOD' for their exploited resource.... pfft..
And the point I most wanted to pursue - that Western Guiding sacrifices Experience over comfort; has been missed entirely.

[Joel]

RonK,
If you've spent so much time in Nepal and your wife was a trekking guide, how can you possibly say that the Sherpa are relatively wealthy and don't take on work as porters? That is definitely true for Sherpa that work as climbing guides, however they are a tiny percentage.
As stated Sherpa is an ethnic group.
You must have had your head buried in the snow on your numerous trips.

[RonK]

RonK,
If you've spent so much time in Nepal and your wife was a trekking guide, how can you possibly say that the Sherpa are relatively wealthy and don't take on work as porters? That is definitely true for Sherpa that work as climbing guides, however they are a tiny percentage.
As stated Sherpa is an ethnic group.
You must have had your head buried in the snow on your numerous trips.

To start, DO NOT MISQUOTE me. This is my original comment.

The Sherpa people are for the most part relatively affluent and don't need to carry to earn an income.

That's right - I said "for the most part" and "relatively affluent".

Trek beyond the popular tourist areas like Annapurna and the Khumbu and it soon becomes apparent that most of the inhabitants of rural Himalayan Nepal are impoverished subsistence farmers. Many districts were neglected for decades, enjoying little in the way of development, infrastructure or services. The disenchantment and disaffection of the people in these districts was such that the Maoists were able to incite them to wage a decade long insurrection which saw thousands killed, the King deposed and the Maoists take government.

By contrast there was little impoverishment or disaffection for the Maoists to exploit in Khumbu district, which actually benefited from increased tourism during the insurrection. Since the 1950's the district has been visited by countless mountaineers, trekkers and tourists. Thanks to the work of Hillary's Himalayan Trust the Sherpa have had schools, hospitals and airfields since the 1960's. They are educated, have better health, and more income opportunities. Take a walk through the Sherpa villages of Kunde and Khumjung and the quality of the houses is obvious. Sherpa own and control all the land in the district. They run the tea houses and get the most of the mountaineering work, and are landlords to the tenant farmers who work the agricultural land in the district.

So yes, absolutely, the Sherpa people are for the most part relatively affluent and don't need to carry to earn an income. Most of the porters working in the Khumbu are ethnic Rai.

[wayno]

some sherpas are able to afford to send their kids away to get very good educations, they can often go on to good professional jobs outside of Nepal.

[Joel]

how can you possibly say that the Sherpa are relatively wealthy and don't take on work as porters?

The Sherpa people are for the most part relatively affluent and don't need to carry to earn an income.

Not much of a misquote...