"Number Ones" in the bush

[GBW]

It's something we all have to do but what is the best method when taking a leak in the bush?

Obviously the basics apply in site selection: away from water sources, catchments, campsites, sensitive plants etc. but I'm more concerned about the distribution of the urine.

Is it best to spray over a wider area and prevent areas of concentration?
If there is an obvious walking track, is it better to pee on the track where the vegetation is already dead?

Any thoughts welcome.

[GPSGuided]

Has it ever been scientifically studied? My instinct is to say that it should not be concentrated on one spot/plant... Over a high cliff and track so that it's atomised before reaching the ground, just like fuel dump from an aircraft.


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[Xplora]

Has it ever been scientifically studied? My instinct is to say that it should not be concentrated on one spot/plant... Over a high cliff and track so that it's atomised before reaching the ground, just like fuel dump from an aircraft.


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All well and good for the gender with a hose attached. Human urine is a good source of nitrogen and is considered safe to use as a fertilizer. It is generally sterile unless you have an UTI. It would be best to keep it out of waterways as there are a few parasite ova which may be transmitted and some pathogens if you are unwell but on the ground or flora I doubt it matters. You may well be helping the plants by adding nutrients but I also doubt the volume will make a huge difference unless you are in a large group and all picked the same plant. Native plants need less phosphorus but again the amounts we are talking about in a casual evacuation of the bladder would not have a great affect unless we all used the same spot. Collect your urine and use it on your vege garden. Here is an article which talks about it http://www.abc.net.au/science/articles/ ... 415550.htm

[Walking_addict]

As mentioned, it doesn't bother plants one way or the other.
The main thing is to ensure your Goretex or silnylon poncho is well out of the way through the process !!

[slparker]

The main thing is to ensure your Goretex or silnylon poncho is well out of the way through the process !!

I do know a horror story of a guy who evacuated his bowels into his waterproof overpants by accident... apparently not pulled down his legs far enough. And that is all I am going to say on the matter.

[GPSGuided]

As mentioned, it doesn't bother plants one way or the other.

According to the wiki on urine, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Urine
'Undiluted urine can chemically burn the roots of some plants'

[slparker]

As mentioned, it doesn't bother plants one way or the other.

According to the wiki on urine, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Urine
'Undiluted urine can chemically burn the roots of some plants'

aah... wikipedia.

perhaps we should look at an actual study done in wilderness areas from the effects of urine on plants from human walkers. It'd be curious to see how it would in any way not be subsumed by the effect of the native fauna evacuating their bladders.

Edit:

From
'IMPACTS OF HUMAN WASTE DISPOSAL IN THE BACK-COUNTRY AREAS OF TASMANIA' 2005

"The addition of artificial urine to undug ground and dug ground had largely positive effects on nine distinct
types of native vegetation, encouraging the growth of many plant species at many sites, while discouraging the
growth of moss at one site."

and

"Relatively few taxa, even among those with sufficient data for statistical analysis, exhibited significant impacts
from digging, urine application or their combination."

http://sustain.pata.org/wp-content/uplo ... nwaste.pdf

[GPSGuided]

Nice study but a local study. Can it be extrapolated to all bushwalking locations Australia or worldwide?

[Hermione]

I don't know GPSGuided, it might be possible to make some generalisations, or use it as a starting point at least.

[slparker]

Nice study but a local study. Can it be extrapolated to all bushwalking locations Australia or worldwide?

I think that it is safe to say that for recreational bushwalkers, anywhere in the world, urine is the least of the environment's concerns. Which is why it never comes up as a problem.

the quantum of urine that hikers produce in the australian bush would be far less than the existing fauna and, as a proportion, insignificant. It is a dilute inocuous substance in the scheme of things.

faeces is a different matter - still insignificant in quantity, but, given that it contains pathogenic bacteria that can reproduce in waterways, has far more severe environmental and aesthetic effects.

[Hermione]

I agree slparker, I've never really considered the impact of peeing in the bush that much (perhaps I'm thoughtless), beyond trying to avoid directly urinating on delicate flora. Faeces is a bit different as you say it's potentially pathogenic and has a general yuck factor when you find someone else's. Walking over Christmas in Tasmania, we spent two nights at the same spot, I made a particular effort to find a toilet spot as a far away as possible and bury my poo 15 - 20 cm (I measured the depth of the hole with my trowel),and I was pretty satisfied that my efforts would not be easily uncovered. Until the following day when I was scouting for another toilet spot and I found that my previous one had been excavated. So perhaps all the people I've been silently berating for years for not burying their waste have actually been doing so.

[GPSGuided]

The only reason why our discussion went to the nth degree on 'no 1' was because it took a life of its own and we pursued the issue. Otherwise I agree, it's hardly a significant issue for the volume of walkers out there, of course, with a level of discretion. As for 'no 2', it makes sense to lay a decent sized rock over it. Yet again, when creatures are keen to dig, nothing will stop them. In the meantime, I think that proper disposal or burying of 'no 2' is just the sensible thing to do, less so for reasons of pathogens. Fact is, there are just as much pathogen in wild animal scats, some will similarly affect us human.

[Nuts]

Good on you for caring. As always, it's never the people who take an interest, make some attempt.
I'd doubt the random effects of taking a leak are any big issue in the case of bushwalkers and light use but Iv'e watched the vegetation around common campsites & huts degrade over the years. Check the AR end of Pelion hut, (Blokes! like nobody else had ever thought about peeing over the balcony ) tussock and cutting grass slowly cooked off over the years, the concentrated effects are obviously bad, how long do the concentrates take to leach away? Good in very small doses perhaps, but high levels urea/ nitrogen are obviously not necessary or appreciated by many native vegetation types, as I understand, especially those adapted acidic soils..

[Hermione]

I've encountered guys peeing off the balcony at Pelion, I thought it was uncouth, thoughtless and generally bad manners to say the least. One group was a father with his teenage sons, which I found even more annoying because I felt he wasn't teaching them respect for the bush or other people too. I mean if you choose to pee out of your tent in a remote area that's one thing, but if you're in a hut that's used by a lot of people I don't really think it's acceptable. Also given the numbers that stay at Pelion even if only a percentage did this it would likely have an impact.

[Nuts]

There's places at each campsite, the public as well as commercial sites that are affected the same. At Pelion, having reason to spend time under the hut, a couple of us have been under there to experience the blow back first hand as well as other unpleasant 'one-offs'.. It's not unusual to find a fresh no1 under the hut. Again, not something that really concerns average bushwalkers, responsible tourism planners & educators perhaps, as we forge ahead.

[Hermione]

That sounds decidedly unpleasant Nuts, but don't you think this sort of thing should concern the "average" bushwalker as well as professional planners/educators tourism operators?

[Bogong Moth]

I have a very sensitive nose and can often smell old urine on the corners of huts.

I think the impact of human urine all of this pales into comparison to the amounts some feral animals can produce. Horse urine output is 5 - 20 ml/kg/day typically. The average race horse weighs 450 - 500 kg. Although I have seen single voiding exceeding 15L.

[Nuts]

I caught a news piece on researchers from UQ examining human waste for chemical constituents /medical markers, some interesting implications from such large samples. There's no denying our output is particularly unnatural, even among the domesticated animals.. Still, given the numbers of walkers (at places, here at least, not nearly as busy as Pelion Hut), it's probably more the implications for managing (& or educating) large numbers of people, concentrating them in campsites and huts. In WHA, while any such impact is unnecessary, there's work to be done.

I guess it is something even experienced walkers wouldn't think much about? In popular campsites, taking a leak close by?
I had in mind the hordes of first timers, not necessarily yet 'bushwalkers'

[Hermione]

I caught a news piece on researchers from UQ examining human waste for chemical constituents /medical markers, some interesting implications from such large samples. There's no denying our output is particularly unnatural, even among the domesticated animals.. Still, given the numbers of walkers (at places, here at least, not nearly as busy as Pelion Hut), it's probably more the implications for managing (& or educating) large numbers of people, concentrating them in campsites and huts. In WHA, while any such impact is unnecessary, there's work to be done.

I guess it is something even experienced walkers wouldn't think much about? In popular campsites, taking a leak close by?
I had in mind the hordes of first timers, not necessarily yet 'bushwalkers'

Ah ok, I'm a theatre nurse so maybe a bit obsessive about hygiene. Also a keen gardner and since I'm fairly sure my garden wouldn't respond to being peed on every day, I tend to look for toilet spots away from camp sites and not on very delicate flora. Also if one person thought it was good camp site likely others will too, and do I really want to pitch my tent where hundreds of people have emptied their bladders? You can smell it in high enough concentrations and warm enough weather, though it's probably not as bad as finding people's poo.

[walk2wineries]

I remember walking the GOW with "Both Feet" [?now renamed] and was annoyed that the tour guides advised against the "long drops" which were in fact almost odourless, cleverly designed-state-of-the-art Clivus composting toilets, chanting "every tree is a lava-tree, haha" with the result that some lookouts and picnic areas did smell like badly maintained lavatories.
But distributed is okay ... I remember one of the authors of this book http://www.amazon.com/3000-Mile-Garden- ... 0330320181 recounting that her friend created a striped pattern on her front lawn using this simple supplement to create greener strips!