Difficulty/elevation gain is all in your head ?

[Hallu]

Hi everyone,
I've been hiking seriously for 5 years now, in Australia, NZ, the US, Scandinavia, Canada but right now mainly in the French Alps. I wanted to share my views on the fact that the difficulties of a walk will vary highly depending on your state of mind. In the Alps, the hikes I do usually involve 800-1500 m elevation gain in a day. For example, I did a walk yesterday that involved climbing 1070 m in 4 km. That is quite steep, but not uncommon here. Usually the rule of thumb is that you climb 300 m per hour of walking. But in my case, my speed highly depends on my state of mind. For example during that hike, I did the climb in 2h45 min. That was mainly because after 1h, I had great 360° views, walking on a crest. I've realised that once I've passed the treeline and I can see great views, I'll walk quite a lot faster, simply because I'm having fun and enjoying the scenery. I've realised that there are walks that only involve 600 m elevation gain that'll be harder mentally hence physically than walks involving 1200 m.

As a comparison, I recently did a walk in Canada, at the Mauricie national park. It was only 200 m elevation gain, but it was walking up and down and up and down in dense humid forest with mosquitoes and very limited views. Two thirds of the 6 promised viewpoints of the walk were blocked by trees. So it was really frustrating, exhausting, and I wasn't going very fast. It's the same in the Alps when the start of a walk is on an abandonned and very steep logging road, and you have to gain 800 m elevation with no view no waterfall nothing. But give me views, wildlife, or a glacier and I'll just fly. Give me boredom and I'll just need a break every 5 min coughing up my lungs... Is it the same for you ? Or is a physical challenge a challenge whatever your surroundings ? A nice example in Tassie that I remember is the Walls of Jerusalem. You can do it as a long day hike. I was slow in the forest where it's steep and hot. But once you reach the valley, I climbed one of the summits (the Temple) in no time.

[neilmny]

My thought or experience on this is not entirely related to elevation gain.
I find if I am walking off piste so to speak or following game trails or foot pads, I travel better, possibly faster than on a vehicle track or well defined waking track. On both the later the pack seems heavier and the distance seems longer unless there is a sense of discovery or views and points of interest to overcome that train of thought.
So I suppose if there is something other than getting there to occupy my mind I seem to do it better but I'm not sure about faster.

[Lophophaps]

Hallu, with some limitations, I think you are correct. A 1000 metre climb is still twice as big as a 500 metre climb. Having good views is tres bien, and absent views is less so, making the state of mind more negative, with a body perhaps slower. This is not something that can be measured.

A related matter. I took a beginner on two walks. Both were on good tracks, one a management vehicular track, the other a well-defined if slightly rough foot track. The climbing (150 and 200 metres respectively) and gradient (moderate) were similar. The management track was above the the treeline, could see for miles. The foot track was in forest, no views. The weather was similar, mild to warm. Both were at or near the start of the day's walking.

We zoomed up the foot track with one rest at a creek. The management track needed more rests, as the slope seemed to go on forever, which dispirited the beginner, who fared much better in the forest track than in the open. So in this case for this beginner the open climb was much harder.

[benjabimon]

Completely agree with the subjective nature of elevation gain.

I find that for me a large part of the problem when making my way through repetitive or uninteresting scenery while going up, is that it gives me more of an opportunity to get stuck in my head. When there is more awesome scenery to take in, I find it is completely absorbing and I am less likely to do self-talk such as 'does my left foot ache?' or 'am I tired?' or more often 'when do we eat?' It's always a physical challenge but when I am surrounded by beautiful sights I am less likely to pay attention to how I am feeling, or what I am thinking

What I have also found out recently is that I much prefer going uphill to down. My stupid knees ache on the way down, but this could just be a side affect of months of inactivity. Hopefully it will go away once my strength is back.

[Hallu]

It's amazing how many people prefer going up. I have strong legs but poor cardio so it's the opposite for me. I have a very weird knee problem that actually gets less painful when I hike. If I stay idle for a couple of days the pain comes back. But hike 1400 m up in a challenging walk and I feel better...

Another thing that affects the mind when climbing is seeing that it doesn't end. This is why zig zag climbs are so much better. First you seem to climb faster and more easily, second you're not seeing for how long it's climbing. A steep logging track that's straight so that there is seemingly no end to it can seem very discouraging at first. This is why in cases like these watching your feet is best =) In Australia, when climbing, I didn't mind the heat or the rain, but I did mind heat + swarm of flies + steep climb. I experienced that once at the Cathedral Range in Victoria, and it's not fun, it feels like you can't breathe.

[neilmny]

I found the don't look up too often approach to be good on the treadly too. Just keep on grinding and you seem to get there sooner than you think you will.
Another demoralizer when you're tired is when a levelling out looks to be coming but as soon as you see over the crest it's just a continuation of the climb into the distance.
We walked up to Neds Peak the other day and down in the lower sections the mozzies were insane. It was breath through your teeth time or swallow the buggers.
That's why outback Aussies talk through their teeth Hallu, it's to stop the flies getting in.

[Hallu]

Yeah I've swallowed my fair share of flies out there =)

[Lophophaps]

Another demoralizer when you're tired is when a levelling out looks to be coming but as soon as you see over the crest it's just a continuation of the climb into the distance.
We walked up to Neds Peak the other day and down in the lower sections the mozzies were insane. It was breath through your teeth time or swallow the buggers.
That's why outback Aussies talk through their teeth Hallu, it's to stop the flies getting in.

I find the levelling out with more upness later to be the pits. Staircase on Bogong is a good example. When I was young and foolish we camped at Jawbones saddle, a short sharp journey from the road burdened with a weekend pack and climbing gear. The bottom section is very steep indeed.

Yeah I've swallowed my fair share of flies out there =)

Good protein. I spit most out - undersized. Also, in national parks, flies are protected creatures.

[GPSGuided]

Hallu, don't forget the oxygen partial pressure variable.


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[eggs]

Interesting discussion.
The group I walk with don't like roads. I think you go faster, but it is more of a slog.
Give us a track anytime. I think you go slower, but the walk seems much more enjoyable.

As for height, I recently did Bartle Frere solo in Qld - a 1500m climb. On paper it was going to be a very straightforward walk as I had all day.
However, the big issue for me was humidity. I had worked through it before on the 900m Walsh's Pyramid where I was saturated just from sweat.
The day I did Bartle Frere should have been less humid (better time of year), but the forest definitely keeps the humidity up [hence leeches].
And the extra height and distance meant that my body was pretty drained by the top. And then I needed to get down with strong cramps hitting me initially, the light running out due to the forest and the side of the mountain being in shadow, and this track is a mongrel of roots and mud cliffs. It was a pretty dangerous exercise in the end - and well worth the sign post at the bottom suggesting that a day walk should only be attempted by experienced and fit walkers.

I had carried 20+kg 1400m up the face of Bogong in an afternoon - in about the same time as Bartle Frere- so this walk was a lot harder.
[I should note that a couple of US tourists with very light gear ran up and then passed me going back down again]

But as for the topic - its not just what is in your head - there are other factors that come into play - slippery, rooty paths; humidity; light and definitely rain - which was very evident in my last 400m climb in the Flinders Ranges!

[Hallu]

lol I don't get paid per click, it's not a youtube clickbait, I just forgot the question mark in the title.

[GPSGuided]

Hallu, we are worried about you!


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[Hallu]

Edited.

[puredingo]

It's all about navigation for me. Navigation, slight confusion and the adrenalin it produces.
Walking a well beaten path, particularly if there are limited views and especially if I'd done once or twice before is where I notice the every little bit of strain, stress or discomfort. But put the excitement of an unexplored place and throw in a bit of "this creek must leed into that creek?... Or else" and I can walk all day.

[neilmny]

It's all about navigation for me. Navigation, slight confusion and the adrenalin it produces.
Walking a well beaten path, particularly if there are limited views and especially if I'd done once or twice before is where I notice the every little bit of strain, stress or discomfort. But put the excitement of an unexplored place and throw in a bit of "this creek must leed into that creek?... Or else" and I can walk all day.

I reckon you've hit the nail on the head for me puredingo.
The other thing I like to do is follow game trails, those critters don't do things the hardest way
and it's fascinating the network they create through the bush......not to mention the odd sighting along the way.
It's probably not the ideal mindset but it's hard to not feel the walk is over and the work has begun (on the return trip) once you hit really familiar man made tracks and roads.

[north-north-west]

In some ways I'm very different. Thing is . . . once I'm up and the vegetation opens out, the camera is being used so much I slow down dramatically. It's easier walking at times like that 'cause the pleasantness of the views and terrain take your mind off your pain, but the camera makes for very slow walking.

But I still prefer that open country, even if it means climbing up all day long. Undulations are what drive me mad - If I'm going up I want to go up. There's nothing more frustrating than putting in all that effort to gain altitude and then you find yourself losing half of it dropping down to a saddle before starting up the other *&%$#! side. GRRRRRR!

[neilmny]

......There's nothing more frustrating than putting in all that effort to gain altitude and then you find yourself losing half of it dropping down to a saddle before starting up the other *&%$#! side. GRRRRRR!

Oh yeh, definitely agree with that one. Much worse than the false plateau

[Hallu]

I think what's worse is trying a hike on a limb because it looks good on the map, and then realizing there's no view at the summit, it's all trees.

[GPSGuided]

I think what's worse is trying a hike on a limb because it looks good on the map, and then realizing there's no view at the summit, it's all trees.

Yep, got tricked into similar a few times. Getting to a location that had nothing more to offer than the exercise.