Food Drops

[wello]

I'm considering a longish walk for next summer that may have an opportunity to walk in a parcel of food / fuel etc for the last few days. Has anyone else done this? Got any suggestions on water proofing / animal proofing etc? Obviously if you can't keep the weight down it kind of defeats the purpose.

Cheers, Wello

[jose]

Tie the ends of a light rope tautly about 2m apart on two tree trunks - 2m above the ground. Put your food cache into a bag and string it up about midway along your rope line. It will be too high for animals to reach from below and they will not be able to reach it from up high because they can't manage to get along the rope.
As part of a SPRATS weeding team we have stored food caches a couple of times this way. We put our food into sealed plastic bags and then into a woven grain bag. We retrieved them safely a week later. If you are going to stow a cache months ahead then obviously you would need to ensure that it remained in shade so the bag will not deteriorate and it should be reasonably off track so other walkers are not likely to find it. But make notes so you don't have trouble finding it yourself later!!

[corvus]

Hey jose,
Did that really work even in Ring tail free areas ? and what did you store you food in b4 it was suspended please
c

[jose]

I just put my food into a large size Zip-lock plastic bag and my metho separately inside the bigger sack. Anything lightweight and waterproof will do - in case the sack leaks in heavy rain.

[corvus]

Thanks for that ,
c

[NickD]

As a commercial company we use large barrels. They are about the size of a large backpack. Of course, as bombproof, waterproof and animal proof as this is, its a more expensive alternative and also is harder to pack unless a big backpack is owned.

[the_camera_poser]

I've recently noticed that a company in the US, Kelty, who've been making packs for ages, makes cache-specific packs now- they are designed to carry bear-barrels.

[ghosta]

When the boys were younger we placed a food cache in the area of Pelion Hut to reduce weights for us all on the Overland track walk....It is around halfway.
We did a day trip in via the Arm River track and dropped off our cache which we placed against a fallen log in a patch of bracken. We used 4 litre containers, some of them we catering margarine containers. I taped the lids with grey tape.

When we recovered the cache 3 months later (we had to delay the overland track trip due to bad weather), an animal had chewed at the grey tape on one container but was unable to get inside.

It was a great sucess. We had heaps of extra food including a six pack.

[Gippsmick]

I've done quite a few 7 to 10 day backcountry snowboarding trips and on several occasions have cached the entire trips food, a month or two before the snow. Makes it much easier to have your food waiting close by than trying to lug in heavy snowboarding and climbing gear, in addition to winter kit and food.
The best method I've found is a water tight barrel with a rubber seal. Similar to what you would use for rafting. Given the barrels are round, they push into your back if you try to pack them in fully loaded with 10 days of food, and aren't that comfortable. Best approach is to load all the food into your pack and strap the barrel on the outside of your pack, then pack the food into the barrel on site. Just make sure you've checked before leaving home that all the food fits in.
Hide them well and take good notes of where your cache is. Mark the location with GPS, but don't rely on the GPS to find it. I take a bearing from a known point along the track and pace in. I leave my details and a message on the outside so that anyone who stumbles across it will understand to leave it alone or can phone to ask about it or to ask for it be removed. I've never have it stolen, never been asked to remove it or had animals get inside. This photo shows my cache (name and number blacked out).

[Lagaro]

Yeah the barrel is the best! Here is an example of one I share with a number of other walkers, it's a bit of a bush bash from Pelion Hut.
As you can see it's packed with goodies! WIth the lid screwed on your food is as safe as it's use by date!

P.S. Stu it's definately not covered by a fallen tree!
I have blocked out Fizzygood's face incase he doesn't want his face posted on here.

Fizzygood and the infamous barrel.

fizzy_good [].JPG (179.01 KiB) Viewed 11649 times

[Nuts]

Found a number of barrels while based at Pelion. Never removed any but i imagine things will change....I suspect Its not so much the ones in regular use but i have found them chewed into by the local wildlife. Perhaps more a case once food has gone putrid but no, they arent invincible... Another option (slightly heavier) is 100,150mm+ pvc tube. You can get glue on end caps and grommet screw ends. Similar volume with a couple of them and they are a lot stronger. Having said that, I do believe that it will become policy to remove food caches....

[Singe]

Found a number of barrels while based at Pelion. Never removed any but i imagine things will change....I suspect Its not so much the ones in regular use but i have found them chewed into by the local wildlife. Perhaps more a case once food has gone putrid but no, they arent invincible... Another option (slightly heavier) is 100,150mm+ pvc tube. You can get glue on end caps and grommet screw ends. Similar volume with a couple of them and they are a lot stronger. Having said that, I do believe that it will become policy to remove food caches....

Er - do you really mean that??!!

Policy to tell walkers that food caches are not allowed, or even to tell walkers that they will be removed I could understand, but surely the PWS wouldn't knowingly put walkers' lives at risk by removing food caches that are already in situ??

[Nuts]

It was discussed while I was out there. Obviously, for those who do the right thing and also come back and remove the barrels perhaps it all good but where is the line drawn (especially digging them in like that) as to how many and an acceptable length of time before they are removed? Some never bother to go back and remove excess food or rubbish, some perhaps dont even end up doing the trip. Tour companies will move away from food caches soon, I expect that the private ones will also be considered. All I would suggest for now is that as well as a name and contact number a date to retrieve by is also printed on the barrel. You might be suprised how many people over the years have had the idea of placing a food cache near Pelion....

[tasadam]

A barrel hiding behind a log somewhere for a while, even up to 6 weeks or so, I don't see a problem, so long as it's removed again, and also so long as it is secure enough that wildlife cannot destroy it. For one thing, your safety could be come at risk if you are relying on it and for whatever reason it is not there.

But digging one in like that, I bet I'm not the only one that would frown upon that, primarily because of the face fact that it is in a National Park.
EDIT. Fixed spelling mistake.

[Trackmaster]

An interesting topic for debate,I suspect if food drops were made illegal, people would only go further out of their way to hide them. And then in fear of being found out probably be more inclined to not carry out any rubbish or empty barrels. Also there would certainly be no contacts information left on them.
Why not just ban people from national parks altogether

Tasadam, where on the national parks face are you frowning upon?

[tasadam]

Tasadam, where on the national parks face are you frowning upon?

User and appreciator, no other interest.

EDIT. I see I made a face spelling mistake in my previous post, now fixed. Make more sense?

[walkinTas]

Why not just ban people from national parks altogether

Now your talking...

Ok, I'll be a bit more sensible - if everyone else will be. Before you do anything in the bush in general and particularly in a NP ('cause they're special), I think you should stop an ask yourself if it would be reasonable for everyone else to do the same thing. Tens of thousands of people walk through our parks every year. So you think it is a reasonable thing for you to bury food near Pelion hut. What if everyone else did the same thing. Is it not a reasonable thing for them as well. So that's 1000 barrels of food buried at Pelion hut. Sound reasonable? Would 2000 barrels be reasonable? What about 10,000? Where do you draw the line - when is it no longer a reasonable thing to let happen? Is that the bush you want to walk in? If it isn't something that everyone should be doing then it probably isn't something that anyone should be doing.

I think you can apply this test to everything you do on a walk. Ok to remove two or three rock at the rivers edge? So what if 100 people did the same thing? That's 300 rocks removed? Ok to relieve yourself beside the track? So what if the next 1000 walkers do the same thing? If its good enough for you to do it, why not everyone else?

[Ent]

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[Lagaro]

This may end up in controversy corner A few points about the Pelion Barrel:

I have spoken with a member of a Private Tour company which will go un-named they were able to provide me with the barrels history before I found it...
They operated 2x barrells at each hut on the OT and as far as they know the barrels are still there filled with now rotten food/rubbish.
I have witnessed a Parks ranger dig one in at Dixon's Kingdom when he realized I had busted him he offered me the use of it, he keeps a tent in his so not much room!
If the Pelion barrel wasn't there already I certainly would not have dug it in!

1. It has been dug in for 17 years, originaly placed in disturbed ground after a fallen tree, theres not even a scratch let alone a tooth mark in the lid!
2. 1000's of walkers have benefitted from it's convenience.
3. Being dug in presents a smaller surface of attack and keeps the temperature stable.
4. It has contained contact details (mobile, email, address) since I started using it.
5. When I took it over it had certainly been abandoned the rice's use by date expired in 1991,
I removed all the rubbish and along with my own gear replaced the rice and a long empty metho bottle, just in case!
6. It was originally put in by the Tour company with authorization from Parks, they are not forgotten just no intention to go and remove them.
7. Myself and others make over 4 trips a year to maintain the cache.
8. It has absolutely no bearing on safety just there for convenience.
9. IMHO Parks policy can just be ignored they just cover mud with duckboards... end of story.
10. This is so unoffensive compared to the idiot that did #2 on the rocks near Lk Skinner and then stuffed their TP under a rock, thousands of people are doing this, but have found very few barrels compared to Poo I would say the ratio is in the order 1 barrel to 10,000 innaproriate #2's

[Nuts]

Yer, i suspected it and the users, might have been associated with tours. The points you make seem to make it as acceptable as possible. As a general topic I guess that sooner or later it will come down to a compromise of the ideals pointed out by WT and the realities mentioned by TM... Digging them in is definitely a good idea for food storage and probably a good option as far as them being chewed (I found one barrel that looked like it had been used as a 'nest' for generations of rodents). I doubt there would be WT's 000's around Pelion. I found perhaps a dozen/fifteen on the couple of occasions i went looking, would expect perhaps 10's. The idea of things being either good enough for everyone or no-one is a good one though...

[tastrax]

The issue of food drops is a tough one but it seems to me that there are a series of issues that fall in to the following categories.

Where they are located
In the past there have frequently been food drops or parcels at places like Melaleuca that have been left by commercial flights for both commercial and private people. They were left on open racks for all to see. The same system has occasionally been used at huts. There have also been drums at various locations by both private and commercial people. Sometimes these were hidden and at other times quite open for all to see. To be honest, this post is the first time I had considered buried containers. It seems way over the top (for me) and would be an offence under the Parks regulations because of the disturbance of the soil etc. I also have concerns about “fixed drops” that are not in hardened locations because of the inevitable effects of trampling to, from and around the drop.

Containers
Containers have ranged from cardboard boxes and plastic bags to drums. For me the important thing here is to make sure its vermin proof but also that it should be labelled in a suitable way. In the past this has often been something like..

Food for Jo Blow
To be collected by 31 December 2009
Available for others after this date

Clean up of drops
This is where it can get tough. Say you don’t collect your food drop then who is responsible for “cleaning it up”. Firstly there are likely to be folk that pick the eyes out of an expired food drop but what happens to the leftovers? Also the package is now broken open so the possibility of vermin has just increased (possibly). If the drop was in a drum then who carries out the drum or rehabilitates the site if it was dug into the ground? I suspect any agreement that PWS had with a commercial operator re drums would also have a clause re the removal and rehabilitation at the end of any licence period.

Administration of remote drops
Personally I can’t see Parks running a system of “lockers” or such for remote food drops. I know it happens on tracks like the Larapinta but they are at road based locations and if I remember correctly they are communal lockers provided by a commercial bus company.

[Lagaro]

[quote="Lagaro"9. IMHO Parks policy can just be ignored they just cover mud with duckboards... end of story.[/quote]

Sorry! I had a bit of a think about number 9 and decided it is just plain unfair!
What I really meant is that myself, and alot of other walkers I know, only take notice of what Parks say when it suits us
You only have to look at Windy ridge Hut or whomever it is named after to see how effective Parks as an entity is to see how badly a Parks policy on something like food drops would end up!

Rangers they are another story, I met one last year at Waterfall valley who wanted to burn Pelion plain to stop the encroachment of Trees!
I know one who DID set fire to Lee's Paddocks!
I know other rangers that actively destroy and remove track markers and cairns in certain areas!
That fuel stove only is a good one though!

[Ent]

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[ILUVSWTAS]

Interesting points!
I agree with Lagaro, there are MUCH worse things happening out there than food drops. And there are so few walkers giong off track or on extended walks nowadays that the percentage simply wouldnt use one. And although I do fan out when requested, and try to avoid closed off tracks, if there was no other option i'd simply ignore them and go on my chosen path.
My father in law is a field officer for parks and he has grown to dislike the way they run things.

[walkinTas]

So let me get this straight iluvswtas. What you and presumably Lagaro are saying is that everyone who walks the southwest track next year should prepare with a food drop. Get a mate with a boat to drop some food off on two of three of the beaches. Maybe dig a barrel in. Then they can all walk with a lighter pack and pick up their supplies at the next beach.

[ILUVSWTAS]

Yeh and i'd ask my forestry buddy to chop a few trees down just for good measure........

No, jeez! if walking the south coast track you can organise food drops at Melaleuca......
BUT if you were going to do a LONGER walk in the area and not go anywhere near melaleuca I wouldnt hesitate in putting a food cache in somewhere. but I CERTAINLY wouldnt bury it on a beach. who said anything about burying one on a beach?? Stop trying to srart arguments WalkingTas. I'd secure one as well as I could and just leave it under a log or in a tree or freaking anywhere.! It is possible to leave one somewhere without doing any harm to the environment!

Jeez dude this been going on for AGES and no doubt still does happen from time to time!
I am capable of carrying 2 weeks food anyway so if would only happen on rare occasions.

[walkinTas]

Stop trying to srart arguments WalkingTas

Where's the fun in that?

As I said, if its good enough for one person then surely it is good enough for everyone. I'm just trying to establish what is "allowed" and what is not allowed! So everyone is allowed put food in a cache "somewhere" (or is that "freaking anywhere") along the south coast track, provided they are on a longer walk, but they aren't allowed bury it on a beach. But we are allowed bury it on the OLT. I suppose they can also put these parcels anywhere on the OLT. Oh yes, the caveat - so long as they don't harm the environment - but who is the judge of what is harmful? Now that's surely something we can argue about (but later).

Since nobody needs to worry about what the Park Department thinks any more, can I ask who is making these rules anyway?

Jeez dude this been going on for AGES ...

Does not make it right or appropriate. War has been "going on for ages". Murder has been "going on for ages". Does not mean every (or any) war and every (or any) murder is justifiable.

I'm not really looking for an argument - no really I'm not - honest! I'm just asking you guys to justify what your doing - in terms of sustainable practices that everyone can participate in. Something that isn't going to be an ongoing problem if everyone else follows your lead. It is a public forum after all with thousands of people coming here for advice.

[tasadam]

It is a public forum after all with thousands of people coming here for advice.

I think this might be the issue, and therefore I might direct anyone who is unsure of what goes, to either have another read of the contribution by Tastrax or contact their local Parks office.

[walkinTas]

Iluvswtas, I deliberately picked on the SW beach to be provocative. That was a bit below the belt, but I wanted to make the point that there are practices that are "unacceptable" to everyone. Different people have different levels of acceptance. This is a public forum so we should - just my humble opinion - we should aim for sustainable practices that everyone can participate in (i.e practices that are sustainable even when everyone does participate).

It seems to me that food drops are one of those practices that are marginal when only a few people know about it, but if everyone did the same thing it could become a real problem.

[Son of a Beach]

Thanks for the admission wT.

This is clearly a touchy subject with strong opinions both ways. Please take it easy, guys, and avoid personal attacks, insults or insinuations against other people. I don't want to have to lock the topic, or edit/delete posts.