New bushwalking forum ? Frugal walking

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New bushwalking forum ? Frugal walking

Postby Moondog55 » Mon 20 Mar, 2017 12:01 pm

Also Ultra-Frugal walking

Not a new subject for me but one that really gets very little serious discussion
Lets see some serious points on how to walk safely and relatively lightly with-out having to take out a 4th mortgage on the wife and grandkids.
And still maintaining a soft footprint on the earth.

Frugal walking may involve buying very good quality gear and making use of it until it falls apart from use and age [ the "Buy once cry Once" mantra] or using second hand gear or borrowing stuff from mates/friends/family.
It may involve learning a new skill like sewing and going the DIY route or repairing gear to make it usable.
It may simply be re-purposing ordinary household stuff found in Op-Shops or the bargain bin at your local what-ever store.
We go walking because we like walking, we combine walking and camping because we like to do so but to not go walking because we can't afford the latest and greatest new ultra-light gear is not always the best idea IMHO.
I walk less than I should because I have an inordinate preference for the white season and need to save fuel money for when it is most important to me but not only that as I'm getting a little lazy also
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Re: New bushwalking forum ? Frugal walking

Postby rurik » Mon 20 Mar, 2017 1:14 pm

I would love to see a frugal walking forum. I have been trying to get my scouts too look into this. I think it is important because it teaches them not to be held back from an activity because they cannot buy the latest bit of kit.


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Re: New bushwalking forum ? Frugal walking

Postby Tortoise » Mon 20 Mar, 2017 1:19 pm

Great idea, I reckon.
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Re: New bushwalking forum ? Frugal walking

Postby Mark F » Mon 20 Mar, 2017 1:37 pm

Scouting is how many of us got into walking and frugality often meant that we were quite lightweight which is really what is needed for scouts. Dunlop Volleys, cheap nylon tarp, plastic groundsheet and uncomfortable pack. Billy was a peach tin with a bail handle. This isn't perhaps fully appropriate today but I do believe that with a little ingenuity and working as a group, a scout troop could do a lot towards keeping the costs quite low. It is important to get the parents involved and supportive of the projects. Set up a project, perhaps the simplest idea is something thing like making and testing cat can stoves. Once successful expand the concept to other gear.

If you haven't already found it, a good resource is on bpl which has a section about scouting. https://backpackinglight.com/forums/forum/scouting/
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Re: New bushwalking forum ? Frugal walking

Postby peregrinator » Mon 20 Mar, 2017 2:30 pm

Compare costs for travelling to and from a bushwalk via private and public transport. (Include costs to the environment in the equation.) Depending on how many passengers are in a private vehicle, it can be much cheaper to go by train and/or bus. This of course limits the possible destinations quite severely. But you might be amazed at some of the possibilities, at least in the more populous states. (I realise, Moondog, that your most if not all of your winter trips would be impossible on public transport.)

It also means you can avoid the thing that really irks me when driving: the never-ending and soul-destroying suburban sprawl through which I need to trudge to get home, with an ever-increasing volume of traffic going at an ever-decreasing speed. That's a huge anti-climax after a wonderful time in the bush.
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Re: New bushwalking forum ? Frugal walking

Postby neilmny » Mon 20 Mar, 2017 6:27 pm

peregrinator wrote:....... the never-ending and soul-destroying suburban sprawl through which I need to trudge to get home, with an ever-increasing volume of traffic going at an ever-decreasing speed. That's a huge anti-climax after a wonderful time in the bush.


My reply is not exactly on topic but you are so right. It can sometimes almost take away the benefit of going bush by the time you get home :roll:
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Re: New bushwalking forum ? Frugal walking

Postby Neo » Wed 22 Mar, 2017 11:18 am

I like the idea. Always been interested in the things people do and make. If as an equipment sub forum there are some threads that could be grouped, or make this a sticky topic?
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Re: New bushwalking forum ? Frugal walking

Postby madmacca » Wed 22 Mar, 2017 11:02 pm

1st frugal tip.

Don't buy a water bottle. Use an empty soft drink bottle. They are strong, light and free.
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Re: New bushwalking forum ? Frugal walking

Postby Moondog55 » Thu 23 Mar, 2017 8:50 am

Second frugal tip, use an old tin for a billy , did this for years before I bought my first dedicated set of Sigg dixies
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Re: New bushwalking forum ? Frugal walking

Postby Lophophaps » Thu 23 Mar, 2017 10:20 am

A small amount of my gear has always been obtained at minimal cost. The stuff sack for my sleeping mat was made from nylon offcuts. My day pack for use to and from home was nearly entirely spare canvas. I had to buy two buckles, maybe $4.00. My climbing haul sack was made at home, had to buy the fabric for this, still cost less than buying the finished item. The tent footprint is from an old tent, a bit heavier than I would like, but not that much and cost zero. The water containers were made from existing items, empty wine casks and nylon. The wine casks are fun to empty when I return from the liquor shop. The stove is home-made, quite light but not that efficient. I think the weight averages out satisfactorily.

Conservation is part of me, and I suggest that this is so for many if not most bushwalkers.
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Re: New bushwalking forum ? Frugal walking

Postby Stroller » Thu 23 Mar, 2017 12:54 pm

I haven't bought a single water bottle for my AAWT hike. I'm carrying about 10 litres worth of bottles most of which are plastic that I've picked up of the road. It's been very helpful to have this much capacity at times but the aldi bags I haven carrying them have all worn out now and I'm bottom sure where I'm going to put them all going forward as I'm about to fill my p k up again with my next food drop.

I save a lot of money by not going down the dehydrated vegetBle route. I just takes vitamin pill and the rest of my food is simple but nutritious and quite easy to cook on the way. I bought a lot from aldi after seeing how much the savings were on many items.
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Re: New bushwalking forum ? Frugal walking

Postby Moondog55 » Thu 23 Mar, 2017 4:53 pm

Aldi Easter sale coming up soon for the frugal April 1st the cookset is back up for $30- as are the LW tarp poles for $10-
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Re: New bushwalking forum ? Frugal walking

Postby Orion » Fri 24 Mar, 2017 1:20 am

peregrinator wrote:Compare costs for travelling to and from a bushwalk via private and public transport. (Include costs to the environment in the equation.) Depending on how many passengers are in a private vehicle, it can be much cheaper to go by train and/or bus. This of course limits the possible destinations quite severely. But you might be amazed at some of the possibilities, at least in the more populous states. (I realise, Moondog, that your most if not all of your winter trips would be impossible on public transport.)


I haven't always been frugal in my gear purchases. I now own multiple sleeping bags and tents and have indulged myself by purchasing specialty items or expensive raw materials in the quest of shaving tens of grams off my pack weight.

But all of that pales in comparison to the cost of transportation over the years. In just gasoline alone I've spent far, far more than on all of my combined gear purchases, and fuel is just one small part of the cost of transportation. I sometimes travel thousands of kilometers by air just to walk. Hardly a frugal exercise!

Frugality as a walker means more public transport (if readily available which it often is not). But more importantly I think it means fewer distant trips and more walking closer to home, ideally from the front door. That really limits the options though. So for me -- even as I currently sew my own backpack -- frugality as a walker is mostly an illusion. I know that except for the local day walks I do I will continue to spend a lot on just the getting there and back.
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Re: New bushwalking forum ? Frugal walking

Postby Lophophaps » Fri 24 Mar, 2017 5:33 am

Comparing gear and transport costs is interesting. Depending on how far, how often and how many people in the car, transport costs may be $1-2000 a year. This is miles above the cost of gear, even if two major items are bought in one year. If a tent and sleeping bag are bought in one year, the cost averages over many years. A lot of my gear is quite old, refuses to wear out. My Lowe Triolet costs ... $6/year It would be an interesting exercise to work out the cost of gear per trip.

When I was much younger I went on many day, weekend and extended trips. For quite a while, day and weekened have lost their appeal, and I invariably do extended trips. The travel costs and time per day of BW drop quite a bit for extended trips, and this appeals.
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Re: New bushwalking forum ? Frugal walking

Postby Moondog55 » Fri 24 Mar, 2017 6:36 am

I used to hitch-Hike; a very frugal way of travelling, not so easy these days.
Shared travel is one way of getting the cost down
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Re: New bushwalking forum ? Frugal walking

Postby davidf » Wed 05 Apr, 2017 12:15 pm

My Lowe Triolet lasted at least 35\ years.Now have hmg porter which wont last as near as long. Reguarly hitch on the bell lines of road. everything from great rides to a guy who said we're going to richmond and between phone calls with his boyfriend told me all about said bloke being a slut because he had a girlfriend. I hugged the train at richmond.
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Re: New bushwalking forum ? Frugal walking

Postby WarrenH » Fri 07 Apr, 2017 7:02 pm

When I was a younger, I felt smug and privileged to be privy to the saying that, Bushwalking is a poor man's holiday. I honourably embraced being a member of the walking poor ... but I didn't walk far!

Then when I started getting serious about walking and spending much time in the bush, it didn't take me long to wise up to how expensive bushwalking really was.

Now, flashing-back even further to when I was at school, one of my neighbours, said to me many times, "Buy cheap buy often." I doubt that truer words have ever been said. Now, decades later I'm basically still using the same expensive gear, that I bought 30 years ago. Nowadays bushwalking is almost affordable.

If you start tallying accurately, what it costs to take a poor man's holiday, you will be horrified.

When I rode the Bicentennial National Trail in NSW, I previewed a cost of $1.78AU for each mile to be ridden (calculated using a US bike packing program). But, when I finished the ride/s, I calculated the real costs of riding the BNT in NSW and in Southern Qld, factoring in everything, it has actually cost me between $2.23 ridden, then $2.75 per kilometre, after replacing and servicing gear. The expenses incurred bushwalking are very similar to cycling off-road.

If you bushwalk from your front door, across a paddock close-to home or around your neighbourhood block, that affords the chance of being frugal ... bushwalking being a poor man's holiday is a myth.

Bushwalking is a nice way to stay poor, absolutely. So walk often and damn the expense. The real savings will come in later years, by having good health. That is being frugal.

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Re: New bushwalking forum ? Frugal walking

Postby Mark F » Fri 07 Apr, 2017 9:49 pm

Personally I think bushwalking is a very cheap recreation but I do realise that it is dependent on income. I did a quick tally and believe my costs are around $2,000 a year for gear, transport and ancillary expenses - including an annual trip to Tassie. This breaks down to around $30 a day of walking. Just going to the pictures costs $15 to $20 for tickets and transport. Buy a boat or a flash car and you will quickly realise that bushwalking is relatively cheap.
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Re: New bushwalking forum ? Frugal walking

Postby Orion » Sat 08 Apr, 2017 2:01 am

Mark F wrote:...bushwalking is relatively cheap.


That's the key word: relatively.

Relative to many other hobbies/pursuits/recreations, bushwalking is inexpensive.

But relative to the average bushwalker, how does one go frugal? I contend that it lies primarily in reducing transportation costs; that skimping on gear is an illusory way to be a frugal bushwalker. Of course one can take the perspective that transportation would be part of many other recreational pursuits and so should be factored out of the equation. If that's the case, then indeed it does come down to selecting cheap backpacks (or just a duffle slung over your shoulder), bargain clothing, DIY tents made of tarps or painters sheets, discount food offerings at the market, etc.
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Re: New bushwalking forum ? Frugal walking

Postby Moondog55 » Sat 08 Apr, 2017 10:03 am

I think bushwallking can be very frugal or very expensive depending on your outlook and mindset.
Certainly wanting to go the far and fast route to faraway places will cost a lot more than near and slow.
Wanting to extend yourself into the extreme seasons will be more expensive than doing so in the easy times obviously.
Choosing gear wisely can be frugal in the long term if you buy the right gear the first time but for most walking we don't need gear meant for Everest or Antactica and we could go a lot cheaper here and now by not always choosing the absolute lightest or cutting edge stuff
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Re: New bushwalking forum ? Frugal walking

Postby Neo » Sat 08 Apr, 2017 10:25 am

Map case, large size ziploc for 10 cents each (25pk $2.50), shows two map panels front and two at back. Official map case $20-45.
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Re: New bushwalking forum ? Frugal walking

Postby Lophophaps » Sat 08 Apr, 2017 4:28 pm

In the long term, BW need not cost much. Good gear costs but it lasts, bringing the daily cost of gear down. In any case, I'd rather be in the bush than trapped in the city, on a bus tour or on a cruise ship. The last two would quickly send me mad. More than I am, that is. However, today it's good to be home - the cold front has arrived, much wetness descending.
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Re: New bushwalking forum ? Frugal walking

Postby walk2wineries » Sun 09 Apr, 2017 10:23 am

Orion wrote:
peregrinator wrote:Compare costs for travelling to and from a bushwalk via private and public transport. (Include costs to the environment in the equation.) Depending on how many passengers are in a private vehicle, it can be much cheaper to go by train and/or bus. This of course limits the possible destinations quite severely. But you might be amazed at some of the possibilities, at least in the more populous states. (I realise, Moondog, that your most if not all of your winter trips would be impossible on public transport.)


New South Welshmen are spoilt, with the wonderful wildwalks site which gives free walkmaps and detailed information about public transport options. Train stations on the Southern sections of the Great North Walk! and for other walks in Berowa Valley. And in the RNP !! There's lots of other resources from local councils eg http://www.walkingcoastalsydney.com.au/ ... h_text.pdf - I used to have a book about Sydney walks accessed by ferry which I can't place. (nb can't navigate my way around the house let alone anywhere else.....)
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Re: New bushwalking forum ? Frugal walking

Postby rurik » Mon 10 Apr, 2017 3:33 pm

This is a little off topic but in the same vain. Does anyone know anything about sewing with a blue poly tarp? I have a pack design I would love to try out plus a giant poly tarp doing nothing. I would love to try and see this pack from it. However I cannot find much info on sewing with a tarp.

I did find this image though which interest me.

https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/73 ... 432f09.jpg


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Re: New bushwalking forum ? Frugal walking

Postby Moondog55 » Mon 10 Apr, 2017 4:10 pm

Polytarp is easy to sew but it does tend to rip along the seams and it isn't very resistent to abrasion, it is cheaap tho. Sew in straight lines Any domestic machine should work
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Re: New bushwalking forum ? Frugal walking

Postby rurik » Mon 10 Apr, 2017 5:57 pm

I wonder if there would be the issues with seam ripping if it was cut/sewn along the bias? I know that would not be very fabric efficient but it is a huge tarp that is destined to the bin.


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Re: New bushwalking forum ? Frugal walking

Postby Zapruda » Mon 10 Apr, 2017 6:51 pm

rurik wrote:
I did find this image though which interest me.

https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/73 ... 432f09.jpg


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Hey Rurik - you might want to check this out

https://www.reddit.com/r/Ultralight/com ... h=bcff6b7e
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Re: New bushwalking forum ? Frugal walking

Postby rurik » Mon 10 Apr, 2017 8:20 pm

Zapruda wrote:
rurik wrote:
I did find this image though which interest me.

https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/73 ... 432f09.jpg


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Hey Rurik - you might want to check this out

https://www.reddit.com/r/Ultralight/com ... h=bcff6b7e



Check what out? Nothing is comeing up.


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Re: New bushwalking forum ? Frugal walking

Postby rurik » Mon 10 Apr, 2017 8:22 pm

& then a link came up when I quoted you. How strange


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Re: New bushwalking forum ? Frugal walking

Postby Orion » Tue 11 Apr, 2017 1:40 am

Polytarp. I hadn't seen that brand name before. It's just a thick painter's plastic sheeting with some sort of reinforcement fiber. Kind of a poor man's Cuben.

I have a couple bags from IKEA made from that sort of material. They're sewn together and are surprisingly robust. I dragged one of them up a big wall in Yosemite for use as a rope bucket. Over the years it has mostly served as a container for gear (cams, carabiners, rope) at home and on numerous trips. Eventually it got chewed up enough that duct tape repairs weren't as satisfactory as they had been originally and I sewed a copy of it out of 1000d Cordura (dragged that one up The Nose). The 1000d cordura version will last forever, but I still have the polytarp one, filled with metal toys. I think I spent $8 on it?

The looser IKEA polytarp bag that I have, the kind that people use as shopping bags in IKEA stores, cost me about $2. It is a pretty standard rope bag for indoor climbing. I've seen people using them outdoors too.

I think you could sew a pack with that fabric which, given a little care, would hold up for some period of time.

That said, decent cloth isn't that expensive. A yard of 1000d Cordura costs $10-$12 and there are cheaper fabrics too. If it were me, spending the time and effort to make a pack, I'd also spend at least a little money on the fabric.
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