Why are our trig points dissapearing

[Steve]

From what I heard, trig point were being removed from mountaintops to help return the mountains to their natural beauty. That I can agree with to some degree, however dismantling cairns I do not agree with in the least. Especially when there once such as James Sprents constructed over 100 years ago. Shame on the people, and so I've heard apparently park rangers too, for this destruction.

[ILUVSWTAS]

Yeh I heard that too, but then why are they just tossing the remains over the edge of the mountains? Just doesnt fit.

And I totally agree with the Cairns thing! Alot of them have been there so long now they become a part of our history!

[tastrax]

Just to clarify, to the best of my parks knowledge, there has never been any Parks program to remove either the metal trigs or the old rock cairns from mountain tops. I suspect some Parks folks support the removal of the metal ones but part of their job is to protect the heritage assets (which the rocks cairns would be).

I personally heard of (non pws) folks who were hell bent on getting rid of the metal ones and would go to quite some lengths to get rid of them, however that was back in the mid 90's. I have not heard of any recent incidents and certainly don't support chucking the remnants off the mountain tops.

[corvus]

Curiouser and curiouser who are these" Trig Terrorists " and who knows what ??
c

[ILUVSWTAS]

I will keep an eye out for guys on mountain tops carrying sledgehammers or other heavy duty tools!

[crockle]

With this thread somewhat fresh in my mind, I just about misted up on walking over a last ridge to the summit, and spotting one heroically rusting trig marking my point of destination & exultation: - the top! (This is on the weekend.)

Offering neither shade nor protection, and of no practical use whatsoever anymore in the modern world, I realised with fond recognition, that this trig (and it's many brethren) were like quite a few people I know.

People that I've daydreamed about being moved from their positions, by means of helicopter or alternative heavy machinery.
And whom I probably wouldn't miss, once the exhaust fumes had drifted away on the breeze.

At which point I was suddenly overcome with a twisted kind of affection for the old things (the people, the trigs, everything! - as I say I was getting emotional, and was probably somewhat dehydrated).

Leave 'em be, let 'em stay, they're great, I'm sure that lunch wouldn't have tasted as good under a "truly open" sky as under a trig point. And the rusty old foot bracket made a beaut cutting board for my rusty old tomatoes that I'd brought up.

So - I've decided to change my tune from ambivalence to affection on trigs - for no rational reason.
Sign me up for the Trig Appreciation Society (A&NZ Division).
As I have no real passion (as such), but just a vague affection, I'd better not seek office of any importance at the Society
Maybe I could set up the chairs in the hall for the meetings...

[ashlee]

I don't have a problem with trig points being removed, but if they are merely being thrown over the edge of the mountain, surely that's worse than leaving them in their original position!

I actually like getting to the top of a mountain and NOT finding a great concrete and steel structure there. I understand that they were there for a reason, and that they are part of our history, and I don't have a problem with that. But I also have no problem with them being removed, and having the mountain tops looking more like mountain tops again. So long as they are not left as rubbish lying below the summit (and that the concrete pads are also removed - which they generally are not, because that would be too much like hard work).

I agree with SOAB. I won't miss the rusty old trig points - they're not exactly attractive, and I much prefer a natural mountain top. I think it's a good idea to get rid of them. I go bushwalking to feel like I'm away from it all, like I'm in the wilderness I guess. It's hard to feel like that when there's in ugly structure sharing the summit with you. But yes the cairns are another thing. As I see it, walkers that make it to the summits of some mountains contribute to these cairns by placing another rock. It's different.

[crockle]

I take it you don't wish to join the Society ashlee.
Fair enough - you make your points well.
That's one less chair I have to put out too..

[Steve]

I won't miss the rusty old trig points - they're not exactly attractive, and I much prefer a natural mountain top. I think it's a good idea to get rid of them. I go bushwalking to feel like I'm away from it all, like I'm in the wilderness I guess. It's hard to feel like that when there's in ugly structure sharing the summit with you.

I agree with you 90% of the time there, on some mountains they're quite useful as you know your at the top when the top isn't very prominent. Rusty old trig point can actually be attractive if in the right place and right conditions. I confess I usually get a shot of the trig point in.



I thought the old trig point on Mt Cameron West looked pretty good with the sun getting pretty low. The combination of being blasted by the salty ocean air and being right in line with the Roaring 40s will eventually cut it down.

[jose]

I went up Mt Pearse this week and the 'Trig Terrorists' haven't left that peak looking like nature intended. If they think this looks better than a standing trig then I'm ready to join the Society. There was no safety threat from corrosion on the trig as the metal is still in good solid condition but now there is a safety hazard with the four sharp metal stumps sticking out at knee height. The cut-off trig is only a couple of metres from its base. It looks like vandalism to me.

[crockle]

That *does* look tragic .

[corvus]

Still no answer as to who is doing this, I now suspect non approved removal .
We do have a parks staffer on this forum perhaps they could do some digging and get back to us.
corvus

[Son of a Beach]

I'm sure parks would no condone this. I hope they (or somebody) catches these people and gets them to personally clean up all the mess they've made on our mountains.

[corvus]

Do we have a dark green vandal in our midst
corvus

[Taurë-rana]

It's a bit like what was happening in the 80's with people removing tape from taped routes thereby potentially endangering other people's lives. I would join the trig appreciation society, they are so much a part of my bushwalking heritage and a symbol of reaching the summit. I have never found them intrusive.

[corvus]

My bet is that the lilly livered perpetrators of this vandalisim will nevever own up
and I still see a very dark green in my minds eye.
If I am wrong please accept my apology.
corvus

[flyfisher]

I think you are right Corvus, but people like that think they have a devine right to "fix"what they think is wrong.

Trig points were put there for a legitament purpose and many people do like to arrive at one after they have done the hard yards. If they have a real beef with them because they see it as spoiling the wilderness, then they are not true to their own beliefs, or they would take the whole thing out of the area altogether.

ff

[corvus]

Eco vandals tends to make me not listen to any other protest they may be staging
corvus

[corvus]

Indolent bar stewards that they are why not carry it out
corvus

[jose]

Well..it is a good quality metal and would be worth recycling but unfortunately too heavy for me to carry out. I could grow some good beans on it for many many years if I could transplant it to my garden! I guess the vandals were also wimps.

[Steve]

Just to clarify, to the best of my parks knowledge, there has never been any Parks program to remove either the metal trigs or the old rock cairns from mountain tops.

Also to clarify on my note about rangers, I believe the info I got was slightly wrong. It was not the summit cairns but the trail cairns they were referring too.

[ILUVSWTAS]

Removing trail cairns is much much worse in my opinion as it could seriously lead to someone becoming lost!
Thats very irresponsible behaviour in my mind and if rangers are doing this then they are worse than the trig vandals!

[Steve]

Removing trail cairns is much much worse in my opinion as it could seriously lead to someone becoming lost!
Thats very irresponsible behaviour in my mind and if rangers are doing this then they are worse than the trig vandals!

I would agree but don't shoot the rangers just yet. That just what I've heard; nothing other than hearsay to back it up.

[DaveNoble]

When I first started walking in Tasmania - in the mid 70's, it seemed that a lot of the local walkers (or at least the ones that I met in the bush or talked to in Hobart between trips) - would make a habit of removing summit cairns (I never saw any remove trig points though). And there was also a move to remove a lot of cairns marking routes. Eg - when I first traversed the Franklin Range in 1979 - we found almost no cairns. I imagine the range would have had routes marked by cairns, like the Arthurs does, when it was more accessible before Lake Peddar was destroyed. Some parts of the Du Cane Range have been marked by cairns at various times and at other times the cairns have been removed. Eg going into Big Gun Pass from the south - had cairns in the 70's, none in the 80's and 90's but now has some sparse ones. Similar to a route off Falling Mtn to Du Cane Gap - I did spot cairns on one early trip - but not on most other trips.

I think the feeling was in the 70's that walkers should be prepared to visit these places without resorting to route markers. I was quite sympathetic to such a view - and we followed this advice in more remote parts of our local walking country - the Blue Mts near Sydney. This is now called standard minimal impact bushwalking.

On my first trip to the Western Arthurs, I can remember being on top of Mt Hesperus - which I think had a trig at the time. Looking down below the peak - I remember seeing several old trigs - many metres below. I assumed they had been hit and destroyed by lightning. At least it looked like they had. (But lightning does not saw off metal legs!) Now Hesperus currently does not have a trig. Was the one we saw removed as part of an official policy? It was certainly not of historic value. Or did walkers remove it? or was it too destroyed by lightning? or was it pushed off the top by walkers who didn't like its presence?

Dave

[Singe]

My bet is that the lilly livered perpetrators of this vandalisim will nevever own up
and I still see a very dark green in my minds eye.
If I am wrong please accept my apology.
corvus

Could be anyone, couldn't it - tho surely if it were some sort of 'statement' by shadowy enviro-terrorists they would be more than eager to let the world know who they were and what they were up to?

Eco vandals tends to make me not listen to any other protest they may be staging
corvus

Couldn't agree with you more, there.

[north-north-west]

I went up Mt Pearse this week and the 'Trig Terrorists' haven't left that peak looking like nature intended. If they think this looks better than a standing trig then I'm ready to join the Society. There was no safety threat from corrosion on the trig as the metal is still in good solid condition but now there is a safety hazard with the four sharp metal stumps sticking out at knee height. The cut-off trig is only a couple of metres from its base. It looks like vandalism to me.

Pretty determined vandals to carry in a hacksaw and then spend however long cutting through the four legs.
If they had to do that, WTH couldn't they have cut closer to the base?

[corvus]

Because it is easier to cut up high.
c

[Pedro]

So, back to the topic.

This was Cradle in 2000:

Cradle Trig Point

Now there is nothing but the concrete pads.

This is the site of the trig on Mt Eliza:

Mt Eliza Summit

Nothing but a couple of pads.

Still a good traditional trig on Black Bluff:

Black Bluff Summit

So who is doing this?

[Steve]

They'd be too scared to post after reading this thread.

[MJD]

I certainly don't like to see the summit cairns being removed. Not so fussed about trig points if it's done properly. This is dispite my mishap the other month when I stood up on the summit of Mt Llyod after bending over to pick up my camera bag. Unfortunately for me I stood up under the cross bracing of the trig point and all I can say is that the trig point won. It took almost a week before I could walk without pain and getting from the summit back to the car was very very slow and painful as ILUVSWTAS can attest.

Here's an old photo of the cairn that once adorned the summit of Mt Field East. (I was holding the camera in case you were wondering.)