Why are our trig points dissapearing

[stillfitenough]

Can anybody tell me why our trig points around the state are being destroyed? And by whom. In my opinion they are part of our history, if you consider the effort that went into building some of them years ago.
It seems that some bureaucratic vandal in an ivory tower who proberly wouldnt know a trig point if they triped over one has decided that they are just to dangerous to leave in place. Anybody who has been up on Frenchmans and seen the concreat feet sitting there with the rest of the structure thrown over the edge and can be seen laying at the bottom of the mountain would have to be digusted. I know they no longer serve the purpose for which they were built but they are part of our history.

[north-north-west]

*sigh*
I've been thinking the same thing with those up here, especially in the Snowies. Ruddy great wide vehicle tracks are fine; huts - bewdy mate; great big signs everywhere. But a harmless (useful) trig marker . . .

We need to start a Trig Marker Appreciation Society. Get out there and rebuild them, they way they do with the huts.

[kramster]

We need to start a Trig Marker Appreciation Society. Get out there and rebuild them, they way they do with the huts.

Sounds like a good idea.
There is something innately satisfying with getting to a "trig-point" after a substanstial climb

[Son of a Beach]

I don't have a problem with trig points being removed, but if they are merely being thrown over the edge of the mountain, surely that's worse than leaving them in their original position!

I actually like getting to the top of a mountain and NOT finding a great concrete and steel structure there. I understand that they were there for a reason, and that they are part of our history, and I don't have a problem with that. But I also have no problem with them being removed, and having the mountain tops looking more like mountain tops again. So long as they are not left as rubbish lying below the summit (and that the concrete pads are also removed - which they generally are not, because that would be too much like hard work).

[crockle]

I don't hold any great attachment to trig points either (it's fine if they go). But I'd prefer to see the whole ugly thing standing there on the summit, than the concrete 'splat' and maybe the sad sawn-off stumps remaining..
There are those people who 'collect' trig point ascents a la peak baggers - I presume THEY will be the most disappointed to see them go...
But just chucking them down the hill is *awful*

[Edit: Chucking the metal trig structures down the hill, not chucking the trig-baggers down I mean]

[stepbystep]

I don't have a problem with trig points being removed, but if they are merely being thrown over the edge of the mountain, surely that's worse than leaving them in their original position!

I actually like getting to the top of a mountain and NOT finding a great concrete and steel structure there. I understand that they were there for a reason, and that they are part of our history, and I don't have a problem with that. But I also have no problem with them being removed, and having the mountain tops looking more like mountain tops again. So long as they are not left as rubbish lying below the summit (and that the concrete pads are also removed - which they generally are not, because that would be too much like hard work).

I'm with SoaB, Hartz Peak comes to mind, perhaps we should find a way of disguising the concrete slabs, perhaps through more elaborate summit cairns covering the pad.
Solar powered web cams maybe

[tasadam]

I know they choppered some maintenance workers to the Frenchmans summit in late Feb / early March 2005. Perhaps it gives them more chopper room on the summits.
I have no idea why they are being removed, and I am certainly against them being hoisted over the edge.

[corvus]

I suspect it may be a corrosion problem with a major cost to fix ,if so they should be taken out and not dumped over the edge.
Has anyone asked Parks why ??
c

[north-north-west]

I can agree with the point about maintains looking like mountains. Trig markers can be highly intrusive, especially somewhere like the Arthurs, for instance. On the other hand, there aren't that many summits that have had the markers on them up here. And all too often it IS a matter of just shove 'em over the edge. (Blast, why can't I find all the shots I have of the wreckage?)
In the Snowies there are just two left in position that I can think of: Gungartan and Drift Hill. (EDIT: And Twynam and The-Place-Where-The-Falcons-Fight [otherwise known as South Ramshead])

Besides, just think how much people will miss them when the satellites are all knocked out and their GPSs won't work.

[Son of a Beach]

I suspect it may be a corrosion problem with a major cost to fix ,if so they should be taken out and not dumped over the edge.
Has anyone asked Parks why ??
c

Have to find out who is doing the removing and the chucking. Parks may or may not be involved.

[flyfisher]

Some of the old time ones are works of art, such as the one on Mt Arthur, the one on Mt Direction and on Old Mans Head to name just a few.
Pity to see those ones go, the metal ones like Frenchmans and Tim Shea I don't really care about.

ff

[tastrax]

No parks involvement - in a nutshell the trigs are (generally) no longer required with better technology around these days for spatial mapping. There is a review going on re spatial information - I will see if I can drag out the documents.


<edit> here is the link to the review

http://www.dpiw.tas.gov.au/inter.nsf/We ... QE2HB?open

Cheers - Phil

[tastrax]

*sigh* - we need to start a Trig Marker Appreciation Society. Get out there and rebuild them, they way they do with the huts.

My father is a one man appreciation society for the "Hardy Cairns" - these are generally the rock structures on the mountain tops built by the surveyor Hardy. He has many of them recorded and photographed. I might try and get him to upload the information to the web.

Cheers - Phil

[north-north-west]

Like the one on Rufus?
I'm sure there used to be one up on Field West, but last time I was there it was gone - unless, of course, it only ever existed in my imagination . . .

[tastrax]

I am not sure of all the locations - I will try and grab a list from him.

[flyfisher]

I'm sure there used to be one up on Field West, but last time I was there it was gone - unless, of course, it only ever existed in my imagination

There was one on Field West about 5 or 6 years ago with a jack jumpers nest in it, with some winged types behaving aggresively.

ff

[Taurë-rana]

I seem to remember a huge rock cairn on La Perouse, very useful to hide from the wind behind. I also think that I heard it has been dismantled which I consider vandalism of a piece of history. I'm not quite so attached to the metal ones, although at least you know you're on the "right" summit!

[tastrax]

La Perouse cairn was installed by Sprent

http://www.isaust.org.au/resources/news ... surv59.pdf

[crockle]

http://www.isaust.org.au/resources/news ... surv59.pdf

i found that fascinating. Love a bit of history ..

[tasadam]

La Perouse cairn was installed by Sprent

http://www.isaust.org.au/resources/news ... surv59.pdf

Measures should be taken to preserve the stone cairns built by Sprent, Hardy and other Early Surveyors as fitting memorials to their pioneering work.

Agreed!
Is the LaPerouse cairn really dismantled? Who? Why? Makes no sense.

Other news articles from that site here.
Interestingly, in the page header it says "In voluntary liquidation".
So maybe they should get saved somewhere in case their site goes down.

[jwalker]

No - La Perouse cairn is still there. At least it was in February this year.

[tasadam]

Jacket matches... Beanie matches... So that would be the walk when your avatar photo was taken?

[jwalker]

Heh heh, no actually the jacket is different but the beanie is a bit of mascot. It was given to me very early on and is never missing on summit shots - at least cool weather ones. The Avatar was taken on Ossa a few years back.

[eggs]

tasadam

are you one of those fashionable walkers who never wears the same combination twice?

[tasadam]

Nah, it was just an observation...
I'm one of those typically smelly walkers that only wears the same combination, period.

[north-north-west]

http://www.isaust.org.au/resources/news ... surv59.pdf

i found that fascinating. Love a bit of history ..

Indeed, most intriguing. Thanks.

[johnw]

In the Snowies there are just two left in position that I can think of: Gungartan and Drift Hill. (EDIT: And Twynam and The-Place-Where-The-Falcons-Fight [otherwise known as South Ramshead])

Scavenger what about The Chimneys, The Sentinel, Mt Tate, Mt stillwell and Kalkite Mountain? Distant memory but I also thought there was a beehive on top of Mt Townsend? Things could have changed on all of these though as I haven't been down there for about 2 1/2 years. Before that had done a quite a few "peakbagging" summer day walks most Christmas breaks for about 7 years. Mostly around the main range. Good fun .

I don't have a problem with trig markers for historical reasons but abhor the vandalism of tossing them over the edge and/or leaving broken bits in place. Hartz Peak is one in I've seen in Tassie like that, as someone else mentioned. If justified historically they should be maintained intact as with any similar artifact, otherwise completely dismantled and removed. I sometimes find them a comfort from a navigation perspective but agree that it can lessen the wilderness feeling. Just my 2 cents worth.

[north-north-west]

You may be right about Tate. The one on the Sentinel was gone when I got up there last summer. There's some sort of marker on the Chimneys, but it didn't look like a standard trig point from where I was. Stilwell and Kalkite I haven't done (yet). I think Townsend has a pillar, similar to the one on Jagungal - the old trig marker there is a classic case of 'chucked over the side'.

There may be more than I realise, it's just that in my rambles around the Snowies I keep bumping into the remains of old markers that have been ripped off and dumped in a messy pile. Depressing.
It's an odd fixation, but I do rather like them. No idea why. All the huts and roads and signs drive me up the wall, but I have a genuine (if irrational) affection for trig markers.

[crockle]

Some people *really* care - this is AUS-wide (TAS included) , but a very small sampling indeed: -

http://tinyURL.com/m6l6lf

(http://www.waymarking.com/cat/details.a ... 0ae533c962)

Edit:

remains of old markers that have been ripped off and dumped in a messy pile. Depressing.

Yes - just so.

[tastrax]

Good find - looks a bit like a cross between geocaching and the confluence project

http://www.confluence.org/region.php?id=88 - still a few left in Tassie including a tough one in the SW!