Are you a stuffer or sacker? :)

[warnabrother]

A colleague has resorted to calling me a "stuffer"

I usually pack my quilt and clothing into a drybag/packliner and then stuff my tent on top of the closed drybag, followed by large ziplock for food and pot with stove and fuel inside alongside..

He is a "sacker" - he has individual drybags and stuff sacks for every group of items he carries.. I pointed out the potential weight savings but he is convinced that it's the "best way" because thats how he was shown how to pack his pack in the Scouts decades ago

So are you a stuffer or sacker ?

[Zapruda]

I'm a stuffer, and pack in pretty much the same order as you.

Its the space savings that make stuffing the superior method.

[Moondog55]

I confess I am both in the snow

[warnabrother]

I'm a stuffer, and pack in pretty much the same order as you.

Its the space savings that make stuffing the superior method.

yep.. and weight of all the bags.. I have been playing around with an oversized flattish silnylon stuff sack I made for the tent that allows a wet tent to be less of hassle to deal with.. it also allows me to stuff the tent into nooks and crannies as I currently do.

[rcaffin]

The idea of stuffing a wet snow-covered tent into my pack on top of my dry clothing and dry quilt rather amuses me.
For the record, we are careful 'sackers', but with UL stuff sacks. And with clean dry gear inside a dry pack.
The tent, wet or otherwise, goes on top of the main bag, over a waterproof layer, and under the lid. Water drips off the outsides of the pack.

Cheers
Roger

[Zapruda]

The idea of stuffing a wet snow-covered tent into my pack on top of my dry clothing and dry quilt rather amuses me.
For the record, we are careful 'sackers', but with UL stuff sacks. And with clean dry gear inside a dry pack.
The tent, wet or otherwise, goes on top of the main bag, over a waterproof layer, and under the lid. Water drips off the outsides of the pack.

Cheers
Roger

The bag/quilt + clothing are in a sealed liner. Nothing important is getting wet.

The idea that we can have dry sleeping bags or quilts in our Alpine amuses me. The condensation up here is relentless, and I know where to make camp and how to ventilate a shelter...

[crollsurf]

I'm a sacker for sure, even down to every day's rations being in a separate large zip lock bag. Trail mix in a bag, powdered mil in a bag, cereal in a bag... all inside a day bag.
Spork goes in a bag with my lighter which goes into my pot which goes into my kitchen sink which goes into my pack, after my tent but before my wet weather gear, on the left hand side of the pack next to the stove which is next to the last days food.

In normal life, I'm pretty disorganized and a stuffer.

[Moondog55]

The idea that we can have dry sleeping bags or quilts in our Alpine amuses me. The condensation up here is relentless, and I know where to make camp and how to ventilate a shelter...

What?? Something really wrong there because my experience tells me that is the most important factor in being safe and comfortable and in the last 30 years of snow camping I have never had a wet sleeping bag or for that matter even mildly damp. I don't go Ultra light in winter for a reason. Back when I did get wet feet it was always my error or trying to save weight and skimping on shelter. Bivvying is a slightly different matter and my dedicated survival kit is somewhat different to my other kit and selected with the fact that getting damp may be unavoidable but I consider my sleeping bag dry bag essential to my comfort and the extra 300 grams of the rucksack liner well worth the extra weight

[Zapruda]

The idea that we can have dry sleeping bags or quilts in our Alpine amuses me. The condensation up here is relentless, and I know where to make camp and how to ventilate a shelter...

What?? Something really wrong there because my experience tells me that is the most important factor in being safe and comfortable and in the last 30 years of snow camping I have never had a wet sleeping bag or for that matter even mildly damp. I don't go Ultra light in winter for a reason. Back when I did get wet feet it was always my error or trying to save weight and skimping on shelter. Bivvying is a slightly different matter and my dedicated survival kit is somewhat different to my other kit and selected with the fact that getting damp may be unavoidable but I consider my sleeping bag dry bag essential to my comfort and the extra 300 grams of the rucksack liner well worth the extra weight

I'm not talking soaking wet here, enough that it can be dried within 30 mins in the sun. Bags get damp unfortunately. Put it up to the light after a morning out and you will see moisture on the inside of the lining. Where do you think your sweat goes when you sleep?

I go ultralight in winter in single skins and double wall shelters and even in my heavy Hillebergs I would get moisture inside the bag from condensation, wether it were internal or external. If you sleep with the door of your tent open you let in all that dew/mist we get in the mountains, if you sleep with it closed the condensation comes from your body. Lose lose.

pretty easy to control conditions as well when you have a basecamp setup at Pretty Valley, mate. Try keeping out of frost hollows at night in Jagungal when ski touring.

Please tell us your secrets. You would be the first person in history to avoid condensation for 30 years straight.

And what do you mean 300 grams for a liner? I use a liner for my sleeping bag and clothes, nothing gets wet in there. Read my comment above. What idiot would place a wet tent on down and pack it away???

[warnabrother]

The idea of stuffing a wet snow-covered tent into my pack on top of my dry clothing and dry quilt rather amuses me.
For the record, we are careful 'sackers', but with UL stuff sacks. And with clean dry gear inside a dry pack.
The tent, wet or otherwise, goes on top of the main bag, over a waterproof layer, and under the lid. Water drips off the outsides of the pack.

Cheers
Roger

HUH??
Clothing and quilt are ALWAYS in a drybag/liner..

[Moondog55]

Getting a really good Goretex bivvy sack
I have mentioned elsewhere that my Mountain Designs bivvy cost me more than my tent when I bought it. You can't do this now because Gore stopped making this type of Goretex but it was the very specialised stuff that put breathability above water resistance and it is not the same as the newer Dryloft and add towels made from old well washed babies nappies to soak up inner tent drips, something people have been doing for a very very long time combined with a small whisk broom to brush snow off everything before crawling into the tent and making sure the tent has a decent large vestibule for stashing wet gear and being willing to ski with the extra weight on the back that all this gear weighs and being slow and patient when setting up
Ive done my share of touring so please don't patronise me. I basecamp now simply because I like to Yo-Yo and at my age I find it hard to find equally slow companions who like to winter camp
My pack liner weighs 300 grams, that is in addition to any inner stuff sacks

[neilmny]

I start out each trip as a sacker but that can degenerate into stuffing over time.

[Zapruda]

Ive done my share of touring so please don't patronise me.

You should heed your own advice...

I carry chux cloth for the condensation, thanks. Ever been in a tent when its windy and you have condensation inside? absorbent towels only help so much.
Cheers

[Moondog55]

Oh Dear me
I am starting to become what Colin Fletcher termed a highly accomplished but highly opinionated Old Codger, but condescending? Never intentionally

[Zapruda]

Oh Dear me
I am starting to become what Colin Fletcher termed a highly accomplished but highly opinionated Old Codger, but condescending? Never intentionally

Sometimes... but who am I to talk.

Don’t get me wrong Moondog, I have a lot of respect for you and agree with you about a lot things. Let’s just call this one a difference of opinion and experiences.

Cheers.

[andrewa]

I'm not sure what I am..!

Home made Cuben dry bags for

Quilt
Sleeping mat/pillow
Clothes
Breakfast
Lunch
Dinner
Other stuff

All in a dry bag. Tent stays outside this.

I suppose I'm a sacker. But I packraft/sea kayak/ backcountry flyfish/ski , and the most important thing for me is to keep some stuff as dry as possible, and to keep wet and dry separated.

A

[LachlanB]

I put things in sacks. But then I stuff everything else in around them.

Can I be both a stuffer and sacker please?

[ofuros]

Sacker....and double sack if I've got a gorge swim-through ahead of me (a xlarge roll top sack that engulfs my 50litre pack).

[rcaffin]

The idea that we can have dry sleeping bags or quilts in our Alpine amuses me. The condensation up here is relentless, and I know where to make camp and how to ventilate a shelter...

We do week-long XC ski trips with a double-skin tent. I can control the through-flow of air. I don't think I have ever had a noticeably-damp quilt in the morning. Note; there are two of us sleeping together in the tent: much more warmth and less condensation that way.

Bags get damp unfortunately. Put it up to the light after a morning out and you will see moisture on the inside of the lining.

Can't say I have ever seen that myself. Our sweat usually manages to leave the quilt and freeze on the fly or the inner tent.

If you sleep with the door of your tent open you let in all that dew/mist we get in the mountains, if you sleep with it closed the condensation comes from your body.

With a double-skin tent and two warm bodies inside it, that does not seem to be a problem for us.

Try keeping out of frost hollows at night in Jagungal when ski touring.

Yeah, well that's lesson #1, isn't it!
I find camping in the lee of some snow gums is often fairly good.
Mind you, we had to camp rather late in the day by the Geehi once, near 4-Ways. I made sure we were as far from the river as possible, with the tent pointing E-W. We had a light breeze all night and woke up to a bright dawn with a bone-dry tent.

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It was a bit cold though - Sue insisted on warm milk for her breakfast.

Cheers
Roger

[north-north-west]

Combo.

Sleeping bag is in a big dry bag at the bottom, stove, food and the rest get shoved in over that, usually in s specific order, with the tent and rainjacket outside the dry bag (across the top, preferably) so they're quick and easy to get at.
Somethings have their own little lighweight sacks to aid in keeping dry and protecting them, but a lot goes in without.

[RonK]

It seems to me the difference between a stuffer and a sacker is simply the size of the sack.

And I doubt whether there is a significant weight difference between one large sack or several smaller ones.

Some like to organise, others not so much.

[GBW]

Sacker. Sleeping bag, spare clothes, repairs, first aid, toiletries, and one for everyday stuff (headlamp, sunscreen, insect repellent, Swiss army knife, flynet) all in different colour sack. I'm paranoid about stuff getting wet and it helps me find things and keep organised (something I'm not very good at in everyday life).

[bigwallclimber]

I am a sacker, I am like GBW. I pack all items into individual dry bags to make it easy to find.

[warnabrother]

It seems to me the difference between a stuffer and a sacker is simply the size of the sack.

And I doubt whether there is a significant weight difference between one large sack or several smaller ones.

Some like to organise, others not so much.

For me it has more to do with space savings and weight as well.. my dry bag is 70g
I always look at it like a wood pile - lots of little bags = wasted space between bags

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[GBW]

Depends how you look at it...

[Warin]

Both. The order depends on where I am, and what I think the weather might throw at me.

Wet weather clothing into one bag; jacket with hood, pants, gloves

Ready use bag: map, pencil, paper, insect repellent, sun cream, phone, first aid kit, PLB

Read consume bag; lunch, snacks, steripen

Cold clothing into one bag; hat, shirt, pants, thermals, socks, jacket

Fecal ( changed from S* as site objects) kit -one bag; small hand shovel, 10 sheets of toilet paper in ziplock bag (this is the ready use bag.

The above might be packed into a day bag ready for use on minor side trips.

Warm clothing into one bag; hat, shirt, pants, socks, jocks(spare), hankie (spare)

(Obviously wearing either warm or cold so some of this will be on me.)

Food store - one bag: any wet stuff goes into its own zip lock, then into the one common bag.

Cooking pot -one bag;pot with lid, inside it stove, matches, pezio or fire stick, spoon, scrubber, possibly a cup of soup mix, hot chocolate mix ready for a quick hot break.

Over night goes into one bag; sleeping bag (in its own compression bag), Inflatable mattress (again in its own bag), sheet, thermals, socks, hat and large quantity of toilet paper. I might combine things into the one compression bag depending on the gear.

Some things are not bagged e.g. camp thongs.

Tent goes into 1 or 2 bags, 1 if dry and goes inside main pack, 2 if wet- separate inner with should be driest from wet outer, if possible place 2 wet bags outside pack ready to hang out to dry when stopped.

There are many choices to be made .. there needs to be suitable provision for them in the packing. I have skipped some things .. cannot be fussed as things change one trip to another, even on the trip itself as you adapt to circumstances.

As for round logs vs square logs ... the backpack is not square. So the things you pack should have some give in them to conform to the shapes available - one of the reasons why compression sacks should not be done fully compressed .. fully compressed they are firm and won't conform to the shapes required. The term 'pack density' is used to describe the efficiency or otherwise of the use of the avalible volume.

[South_Aussie_Hiker]

I do both.

The problem for me with stacking very neatly in small bags, is that accessing stuff inside the pack is a pain. It all gets tumbled around while I search, and I have great difficulty finding things (especially at the bottom) through the small opening in the top of the pack. This can be reduced somewhat by using a torch. I guess it would be easier if I replaced my roll top pack with one where the entire front zips off, but I don’t want the weight penalty.

I have two or three large dry sacks which perfectly fit my pack when full. I pack everything into these dry sacks very carefully and tightly, then squeeze the air out and they just fit into my main pack.

When I arrive somewhere, I pull them all out and can find what I want easily without disturbing my packing system too much.

Also means I can use my main pack as a day pack after setting up at a hut.

[Lindsay]

I am a combination sacker/stuffer. Although quilt, mat, food, first aid kit and cooking gear are in bags, the space around them is filled with stuffed clothing, plus a few plastic bags for wet stuff if needed. The tent lives in a pocket outside the pack.

[Mark F]

I do both. Pack has a waterproof liner so quilt, mat and sleeping clothes get stuffed in the bottom. Cooking gear and sundries in stuff sacks, with food in two stuff sacks; dinner and breakfast in one and lunch and snacks in the other. Other clothes are stuffed in and the tent is in a bag.

[pulseevents]

I do both but predominantly a stacker. Using ul bags saves weight and just makes it easier to find things when they are separated. Both ways have pros and cons i guess but also depends on length of hike for me.