Macpac sold to Super Retail Group

[Moondog55]

Nunatak are making my next down pants and pullover. They made my quilt and my overquilt, it's not as if I am not willing to spend money on my gear
Wayno I guess you have to balance purchase price against lifespan. A traditional woollen bushshirt used heavily will probably last 5 years in NZ scrub or 10 years here or in North America; that's less than $40- a year and they are repairable , of course mine no longer fitted me so I passed them on but I now sew my own trad gear anyway and why I haunt the Op-Shops looking for good quality blankets and fabric People are too fixated on first cost because that are used to throwaway fashion I guess. Wool is a luxury product I admit; so naturally the prime cost is high but so is the makers mark-up in many cases

[Zapruda]

Nunatak are making my next down pants and pullover. They made my quilt and my overquilt, it's not as if I am not willing to spend money on my gear
Wayno I guess you have to balance purchase price against lifespan. A traditional woollen bushshirt used heavily will probably last 5 years in NZ scrub or 10 years here or in North America; that's less than $40- a year and they are repairable , of course mine no longer fitted me so I passed them on but I now sew my own trad gear anyway and why I haunt the Op-Shops looking for good quality blankets and fabric People are too fixated on first cost because that are used to throwaway fashion I guess. Wool is a luxury product I admit; so naturally the prime cost is high but so is the makers mark-up in many cases

Most people would rather spend time in the bush than rifling through op-shops and sewing gear.

[wayno]

there's little difference in quality anymore between a lot of asian made gear and NZ made gear if you choose a reliable brand, and Macpac use quality materials, the same materials as most major brands....

[Moondog55]

Most people would rather spend time in the bush than rifling through op-shops and sewing gear.

Adds very little time to my shopping or my doctors/ post-op surgery visits and you can't spend all your time skiing or stalking Sambar and sewing is more intellectually challenging than almost all television and I am allowed to sew but I can't yet walk too far or carry any loads so it stops me pining for the fiords

[Zapruda]

Most people would rather spend time in the bush than rifling through op-shops and sewing gear.

Adds very little time to my shopping or my doctors/ post-op surgery visits and you can't spend all your time skiing or stalking Sambar and sewing is more intellectually challenging than almost all television and I am allowed to sew but I can't yet walk too far or carry any loads so it stops me pining for the fiords

It sucks you can’t walk at the moment. I hope you can get out there soon. It kills me when I have a running injury and I’m stuck at home.

[Moondog55]

there's little difference in quality anymore between a lot of Asian made gear and NZ made gear if you choose a reliable brand, and Macpac use quality materials, the same materials as most major brands....

Quality perhaps/ perhaps not but the latest iterations seem to be far heavier than they need to be and lacking in design details that I would consider essential in the Alps
If all you do is wear the stuff around town it makes bugger all difference but lately too heavy fabrics and cheap down seem to rule.
These days I expect fabrics around 22GSM or lower and down around 850FP or higher for my in-camp warm/sleeping layers, big internal mesh pockets for drying glove liners and keeping my water bottle thawed and at least one model in the lineup cut long enough to cover my bum in cold weather so I can keep my loved ones warm and wear lighter insulated pants.
A technical shell with a separate windlayer to maximise warmth with minimum added weight would have been nice, they did have one decades ago, windshirts integrated to use along side baselayers/UL mid layers and a good systems approach to layering the brands gear. Stuff Montane and Mont-Bell have been doing well for ages
for *&^%$# sake Macpac don't even have a belay parka in their lineup and I know Kiwis still climb.
I hope the brand is successful under the new umbrella I really do but like MD they do seem to have totally abandoned some of the old market that made the brand a NAME.
Maybe they need to employ a consultant like Andy Kirkpatrick or Mark Twight to shake up the line-up; although getting Mark to abandon Patagonia might be too expensive an exercise

[Moondog55]

I hope that the team from Supercheap read these discourses, they do read the emails I send them Re Rays/BCF, maybe I should send them the link??

[wayno]

ah no, Macpac have lighweight and an ultralight range of gear now.

[Zapruda]

ah no, Macpac have lighweight and an ultralight range of gear now.

Yep 100%. I posted the link in one of my earlier posts. They are using polartec powergrid, pertex shield etc. very competitive weights compared to things like Patagonia’s capilene and outdoor research’s Helium jacket.

Of course all this is ignored for the sake of argument...

[Moondog55]

Saw them
Not impressed at all Not Ultra Light by current gossamer standard, Light yes but not Ultralight or they are unavailable or I could find no feedback on the items I was looking at
viewtopic.php?f=15&t=27224
I am hoping that they bring back some excitement to the industry tho with the change

[Zapruda]

The OR Helium II, arguably one the most popular UL rain jackets weighs as much as the Hightail Anorak, I would definitely call it ultralight at 180 grams. And no, it’s not just a wind shirt. I had used my old Helium in snow, rain and heavy winds. It’s doesnt breathe well but pertex makes a great and light waterproof material.

You are asking too much from a company like Macpac. If you want innovative look elsewhere.

If you want innovative clothing look at some of the new Rab stuff like the Zero G parka (I own it and love it) or the Kinetic jacket. Patagonias new Micro puff has potential or even the rain jacket offerings from zpacks or Hyperlite Mountain Gear. The new North Face Hyperair jacket with gore shake dry is also amazing (I am currently using it and testing it). Be prepared to pay though.

[wayno]

moondog, set up another post on macpac, you only want to talk about the negative about them and ignore the positive... the post is about their sale not to endlessly criticise their gear, so I'm calling it off topic ...

[Moondog55]

I'd say it was perfectly on topic because the things I mention are the reason it has sold for so little.
I'm just hoping that the Supergroup bring back the Expedition minaret before my trip to Canada

[Moondog55]

If it makes you feel any better Wayno I just bought something from the Alpine range, I purchased one of those Hightail Anoracks, it seems an XXL may just fit me over my skiing layers and my old XL DAS should fit over the top
The stock market here thinks the acquisition is a mistake tho, shares in the Supergroup did fall on yesterdays trading

[Moondog55]

Well Wayno I just tried on my XXL Alpine series Hightail pullover, it will not go over my shoulders when wearing a LW winter underwear top, I have to return it
A shame really as it has nice long arms and really is UL

[Zapruda]

Damn. That’s a shame Moondog.

[blacksheep]

"Popped in, curious of what the crew here thought..hope all are well, and are getting plenty of fun in. Me, I’ve been breeding , and growing my little biz
Take care, keep the *&%$#! honest
Cam
Aka Blacksheep

[wayno]

are they going to confuse the client base in spreading the range of product and people they are after? if you become more like a general chain store then how do people take you seriously as an active outdoor gear company? do they just think you're dumbing everything down to casual wear? how do people tell what they are looking at.
you see a lot of people hiking around with gear they bought at a general store like kathmandu that isnt fit for purpose, not recognising whats waterproof and whats not... just wearing any old casual gear into the wilderness. wearing cotton in a cold climate....
you have to know how to recognise what you want to buy and what you want to avoid, that gets harder when the range of gear broadens and also when the shop staff don't know their stuff.
macpac stand to loose on the deal.... the macpac we knew is gone. what will the new macpac be like?

[rcaffin]

Sad, very sad. Another iconic brand down the tubes. The brand will not survive.

In the USA the only growth section of the market is at the UL end. The trad heavy-weight companies are spreading sideways into the street fashion market, just as their executives are spreading sideways at the waist line. And they are being run by marketing and legal types, with the inevitable disasters.

On the other hand, there is now a thriving horde of UL cottage companies over there doing very well thank you. Every now and then one of them gets gobbled up and destroyed (so to speak) by the big corporates, much to the customers' frustration. But the thriving ones are sticking to their expertise in their niche areas, AND are (as far as I know), all privately owned. No hedge funds or VCs.

There is an amusing sideshow playing out there right now. The big retail chains (REI, Cabela, etc) are a bit annoyed at these cottage companies, claiming they won't do business with the chains. This is not true of course. What is happening is that the retail chains are demanding a 50% discount from the cottages, so that when they add their 100% markup their prices will be on par with the cottage company's web sites. Needless to say, the cottage co's are refusing to play ball this way - for several very good reasons:
They would be selling to the chains at a loss
They don't have the capacity to handle the bulk orders they MIGHT get
If they invested in the extra capacity they would not only have much bigger headaches, but they would then be captive to the demands of the chains. (For reference, check out the effect of the Oz supermarkets price wars on Oz farmers.)

Cheers
Roger
(Editor, www.backpackinglight.com, by way of info source)

[Gadgetgeek]

Retail darwinism? Either way, competition is good for us overall, even though in the short term the big-boxes might give a better price, it never lasts. REI probably has the best chance of benefiting from the cottage industry as they could likely license designs and handle the manufacturing in-house, creating a benefit for all parties. The others don't care so much, they target the weekend warrior market, or those who's fashion sense ends at coordinating camouflage design.

[warnabrother]

Sad, very sad. Another iconic brand down the tubes. The brand will not survive.

I don't know if I agree with this.. the "Super Group" are smart business people. They know what they are getting themselves into.. this wouldn't have been purchased on a whim.
I would imagine they would know who Macpacs customers are and that they are different to BCF's customers.
I feel they would also know that if they change the direction of Macpac the business would fail and after spending all that money, I am sure they would not want that.

As long as the design and test team stay on board and their product range keeps evolving, they will hopefully do well.
Everyone has written them off just because they have new owners !!

On a side note - I bought a merino baselayer from them yesterday.. I have tried Icebreaker, Smartwool, Wilderness Wear and a few other Euro brands but I have found them ALL to itch/annoy my skin. The Macpac merino seems MUCH nicer against my skin than any of the ones mentioned. Quite happy about that as I had almost accepted the fact I'll stink in the bush for ever

[Moondog55]

I'm not sure I agree with that warnabrother, the group did pay far too much for Rays and while they have turned that chain into a more upmarket retailer sales in the shops are down and they are having a lot of trouble promoting Rays as a reliable gear and advice place to shop and Ray Frosts good contacts in China were discarded and cheaper factories chosen with a fall in quality of the goods and many more returns because of poor quality. This is currently reflected in the share price of the Super group, now down 17% and predicted to fall further.
My fear is that they will abandon all attempts at making quality products completely and try and make a profit by chasing sales at the cheap end of the market.
I see a real problem for the future of the brand because as far as I have been able to ascertain none of the senior people in the business are users of the gear, they are sales and marketing oriented with no real idea of what we walkers/skiers/campers/ climbers and mountaineers really need or indeed really want

[wayno]

the problem is when you dilute your core brand and the market you're dealing with.
people may think you've abandoned your roots to make dumbed down gear and they stop buying from it even when you havent.

[warnabrother]

the problem is when you dilute your core brand and the market you're dealing with.
people may think you've abandoned your roots to make dumbed down gear and they stop buying from it even when you havent.

those "people" are such a small group of educated buyers on forums like this that it doesn't really matter...

we'll have to wait and see what they do.. for now, it's all hypothetical

I for one wish them well and hope they try and innovate.. I like Macpac products.. well, some of them.. their shorts are nice fitting, their light fleece and "uberlight" down is nice, my wife loves here Hightail anarok and I (as of yesterday) really like their merino..

[johnrs]

Heh WB
SRG purchased Rays and made such a mess that they had to reduce the number of stores from 65 to 15,
With their new toy SRG are just back to where they started.
Maybe SRG has learned something along the way..............................
John

[LachlanB]

those "people" are such a small group of educated buyers on forums like this that it doesn't really matter...

I think we all need to ditch the idea that the views more invested user groups (like many of the people on this forum) don't matter.

Yes, it's not as large a group as the casual buyers looking for streetware.

But most of us have bought a fair bit of (sometimes quite expensive) gear, and importantly, need to replace that gear as it wears out or our interests change.

For instance, the Macpack Hightail Anorak that keeps being mentioned is a major bit of gear and costs nearly $300. That's a decent sale. And there's many comments on this forum in the way of people having too many tents/sleeping bags/stoves/whatever the item of choice is. It all adds up in sales.

Having a loyal niche user group that keeps coming back to buy more equipment could quite easily be the difference between a profit and a loss for many outdoors companies- they don't have that massive budget margins in a competitive market.

[wayno]

the problem is when you dilute your core brand and the market you're dealing with.
people may think you've abandoned your roots to make dumbed down gear and they stop buying from it even when you havent.

those "people" are such a small group of educated buyers on forums like this that it doesn't really matter...

we'll have to wait and see what they do.. for now, it's all hypothetical

I for one wish them well and hope they try and innovate.. I like Macpac products.. well, some of them.. their shorts are nice fitting, their light fleece and "uberlight" down is nice, my wife loves here Hightail anarok and I (as of yesterday) really like their merino..

not in NZ, from decades ago, all the trampers I knew, knew macpac was a quality brand to go to, you looked for that brand, they were only making gear for trampers, it was one of the main brands NZ trampers would buy,, already they are making gear for the casual wear market now. kathmandu has always been regarded as a more second teir brand amongst a lot of trampers if you're not fussy about what you buy

[warnabrother]

the problem is when you dilute your core brand and the market you're dealing with.
people may think you've abandoned your roots to make dumbed down gear and they stop buying from it even when you havent.

those "people" are such a small group of educated buyers on forums like this that it doesn't really matter...

we'll have to wait and see what they do.. for now, it's all hypothetical

I for one wish them well and hope they try and innovate.. I like Macpac products.. well, some of them.. their shorts are nice fitting, their light fleece and "uberlight" down is nice, my wife loves here Hightail anarok and I (as of yesterday) really like their merino..

not in NZ, from decades ago, all the trampers I knew, knew macpac was a quality brand to go to, you looked for that brand, they were only making gear for trampers, it was one of the main brands NZ trampers would buy,, already they are making gear for the casual wear market now. kathmandu has always been regarded as a more second teir brand amongst a lot of trampers if you're not fussy about what you buy

yep and I think it was here initially as well.. but catering to a small market doesn't equal profit here in Aus.. and as the internet has allowed us to buy nicer stuff from overseas, I am sure these businesses have struggled and had to find ways to keep afloat.

Rays starting closing stores before the SRG take over I believe.. and they have changed their focus, well they did initially, by stocking better brands i.e. Patagonia, Salomon, Sawyer filters, MSR etc etc.. but I think that ship has sailed as people are generally buying that "quality level" gear online..

We'll have to wait and see.. i really hope they do not destroy the Macpac brand all together..

As an employee of a company that has just been bought out by a similar super group, I can say that our new owners are keen to allow us to "do our own thing"

[wayno]

the tramping market in NZ isnt small. massive no's of NZers tramp, it a highly contagious national affliction, I grew up with so many trampers in my neighbourhood and its like that over most of NZ, so much of NZ is in easy reach of tramping areas.
also seen countless foreign tourists kitted out in Macpac gear sometimes from head to toe.
kathmandu is the eight biggest outdoor sports brand in the world.
we can tramp year round and a lot of kiwi's get immune to being out in the frequent bad weather.... it never gets so hot you can't tramp...

[wayno]

Briscoe Group still wants to buy Kathmandu

https://www.stuff.co.nz/business/102191 ... -kathmandu

briscoes retail chain have nothing to do with the outdoor recreation industry.