Unprepared people in the bush

[tqc]

Touchscreens don’t work so well when wet, basically because they are responding to the fact that your finger is 70% water. That’s fine until everything you could wipe it off with is also wet, though paper maps don’t handle that so well either.

Of course the awareness that some sort of map is useful does get you out of the realm of the truly unprepared...

[Orion]

There are $9 phone cases at BCf that still respond to fingers when the phone's in them. I use one when I go canyoning etc, works fine, and hasn't leaked yet.

What's "BCf"?

I was using a waterproof ziplock (aLoksak) which is supposedly certified waterproof to 60m. I saw videos of people using their phones in these ziplocks underwater as cameras. But after only a few days the plastic lost a fair amount of its optical clarity so I could no longer take decent photos with it in the bag. The biggest problem was trying to manipulate a map on the small screen when everything was wet. I could usually do simpler things like push a virtual button but moving or resizing a map was very difficult. I gave up trying when conditions were really wet and just used my paper map (which I keep in a ziplock, folded to expose the relevant parts).

If there is a compact, lightweight waterproof enclosure that allows normal operation of the touchscreen when it's wet I'd love to know about it.

But even without use in the rain I find the GPS/mapping apps on the phone to be a great tool. My sense of direction kind of sucks. Although I've always managed to bumble my way along with paper map and compass, being able to push a button and know the precise location has been very useful on occasion.

[ErichFromm]

Some people have trouble getting themselves to the start of a walk because they rely on technology. GPS in regional areas is not reliable. Directions are often wrong. I have a friend who will only go the way his in car GPS tells him (he likes her voice too). Even though he has been to our place many times he drives past the gate because the device has not told him he has arrived. Its funny but also pretty sad.

This happened to me recently - was looking for a quick place to sleep on way back from falls creek. Looked up mt Samaria national park and then trusted google to get me there. Lost over an hour as google tried to route me through farms and private property. Had to wake up and actually use my head to find the site

[Xplora]

Knowing what my friend is like, the first time he came down from Sydney I gave him a number of weigh points to enter which meant he did not end up on some bush track. My in car GPS thinks old cattle tracks and firetrails now locked are roads. If you followed the GPS from Falls Creek to my place then you would need a NP gate key and a 4wd. Heading to northern NSW once we were diverted from the Hume because of a fatal and ended up being sent through Cootamundra. The GPS was trying to reconfigure when I had my partner get the map out and we found a fantastic route north, all inland, mostly 100kph, great scenery, no big towns or tolls (hate driving through Sydney) and we could make it to Tamworth in 12 hours. Hate the coast road anyway. I doubt most younger people travelling would know what a paper map was. Soon they will not exist. The point is that a real folding map gives you a greater perspective or a broader picture. We should encourage those reliant on technology to use folding maps as well and show them the benefits. Maybe that will keep these maps around for as long as I need.

[Aardvark]

It seems so ridiculous to me that preference be given to a dependance on an electrical item when a relatively cost free option exists, of a paper map.
If GPS was the first and only navigation tool that man had. And someone invented the compass. An item that costs nothing to run. We would label them a genius.

[wildwanderer]

It seems so ridiculous to me that preference be given to a dependance on an electrical item when a relatively cost free option exists, of a paper map.
If GPS was the first and only navigation tool that man had. And someone invented the compass. An item that costs nothing to run. We would label them a genius.

This is not personally directed at you Aardvark.

I receive a bit of flak and raised eyebrows from experienced and old school bushwalkers on the trail due my use of a phone for navigation. They have all grown up using paper maps. (as have I)
When used properly (and maintained properly eg ensuring adequate battery) a digitally displayed map is just as safe as a paper map. We have switched to digital displays for many things including aircraft navigation systems.

With improper use a digital map will get you lost or worse. Same with a paper map.

There are advantages and disadvantages to using digital as there is with paper.

Let’s respect personal choice.

[Aardvark]

There are advantages and disadvantages to using digital as there is with paper.

Let’s respect personal choice.

I would wholeheartedly agree. I really don't aim to influence others. I like to open debate though.
My concern is that paper maps will fall to the wayside. That will eliminate choice.

[wildwanderer]

There are advantages and disadvantages to using digital as there is with paper.

Let’s respect personal choice.

I would wholeheartedly agree. I really don't aim to influence others. I like to open debate though.
My concern is that paper maps will fall to the wayside. That will eliminate choice.

A fair concern and I would not want paper maps to disapear. I use them for walks longer than 4 days and for walks where I may need to change my route. (I find p aper maps give you a larger perspective often needed for route planning.)

[Xplora]

I think there is a time and place for both paper and digital and proper use of both is essential. I can also see a time when those making papers maps no longer see it as profitable and will stop or increase the price accordingly. By that time all of us who like the paper maps will be long gone and it may not matter.

[Lophophaps]

I have and use maps that are over 30 years old. With care they last. Sadly, recent maps are of a lower standard of presentation and paper than the old ones. A major reason for this is that cartography is now possible with minimal human oversight, leading to a somewhat poor map. I have a map with three lines of text overlapping. From memory these are a contour, a summit and a track, none of which can be easily read. Contrast is much less than was the case before - black typeface is nice.

I use paper backed up with a GPS in some places.

[stepbystep]

Bumped into a bloke limping out of the Southern forests the other day, out of condition, incorrect gear etc hurt himself trying to get a particular angle for a photograph.

Inspired by instagram....we'll see lots more of that as time goes by...

[wildwanderer]

Bumped into a bloke limping out of the Southern forests the other day, out of condition, incorrect gear etc hurt himself trying to get a particular angle for a photograph.

Inspired by instagram....we'll see lots more of that as time goes by...

There is a significant 'adventure' craze on instagram at the moment. Luckily most of it is day walks on regular tracks. I guess it inteferes with the perfect photo when your all scratched up by scrub. What annoys me most is the location tagging of sensitive locations that cant support the hordes of people that instagram generates.

[wayno]

i was at fortesque bay in tasmania.
it a moderately remote bay, you have a bit of a drive down a dirt road off the highway.
very scenic place.... a car load of young adults drove up dashed out of the car to the beach, all jumped in the air while someone took a photo, dashed back in the car and drove off. that was it, just bowled up to collect another photo in a string of place. never mind all the other scenery that had to be accessed on foot which was even better than the road end...
you're sitting in a timeless place and some people charge up and remind you that you're very much in the 21st century.
social medi is destroying some pristine places with hoards of people who just rush to them for photos and videos on the way to the next scenic places that were once quiet and pristine and have now gone viral and are being over run by tourists,
theres often little understanding of the potential dangers of some of these places..

[Mark F]

Wayno - at least it made them happy and they were not there for long. Far better than a couple of old 4wds with bogans settling in for a week or two of drinking with "music" until 3 am followed by fights and swearing or people with jet skis.

[wayno]

Wayno - at least it made them happy and they were not there for long. Far better than a couple of old 4wds with bogans settling in for a week or two of drinking with "music" until 3 am followed by fights and swearing or people with jet skis.

yeah different ends of the scale, still you're relaxing and the idiots turn up to shatter the serenity... only in a new way that never used to happen

[Arapiles]

About 20 years ago I was at Mt Bogong summit around January. I'd left my tent and big pack at Bivouac Hut, where I'd camped overnight and I had a daypack with me, with all the essential gear, including fleece and full waterproofs. I had water and food. I was in my early 30s and very fit. I was dressed appropriately. I had recently moved back to Australia from Japan, where I'd done plenty of walks in the Japanese Alps, including in Autumn and Winter. I was a member of my Uni's bushwalking club and a cross-country skier, again, including in Japan. I'd done plenty of daywalks around Canberra. It was a beautiful day and I was sitting by the cairn enjoying lunch and really enjoying the views and just being outside and on top of a mountain. There were a couple of other groups on the summit. One group, three young guys, looked a bit agitated about something. Then one came over to me and without even introducing himself aggressively demanded to do a bag check. On my gear. I was genuinely gobsmacked and after thinking about it I refused and politely told him to *&^%$#! off.

If, for whatever reason, they thought that I looked inexperienced or unprepared then there would've been better ways to broach it. If they thought that I was wandering around the high country with a daypack, then, equally, it would've been politer to first ask where I was going (back down to Mountain Creek actually, to be picked up). Ironically, the night prior when I'd camped at Bivouac Hut, there'd been a school group there and I'd had a good chat with the trip leader who was also an SAR and she'd had a good look at my gear when we were discussing her new tarp and she hadn't raised any issues. If she was actually politely scoping out my gear or preparedness, then she did it far more effectively and politely than the guy on the summit.

Edit: Oh, and I had a map with me as well.

[Neo]

My Solitary...
Yep made friends with a tourist climber in January. It was too hot for him to go climbing but he wanted to go hiking (!).
Set him up to do an overnighter on Solitary. Had his gear and I'd done the loop so gave him the details in conversation. Made sure he picked up a 5 litre cask of water as there is none, clockwise, until you descend.
Walked together to show him the start from Scenic World. We 'summited' then had lunch on Ruined Castle with a friendly lizard, then parted ways. Joked that he had to send me an SMS on his return to the Three Sisters otherwise I'd have to come out at find him. All good.

Diverting from Scenic Railway, the track isn't super obvious, we chatted to a couple about going to the Ruined Castle. They had nothing so told them how far it was and they should get drinking water from the kiosk. They appreciated that info.

So many tourists are going to do Scenic-Castle or Golden Stairs with just a 600ml water if that. Will always be the way I suppose?

[GPSGuided]

Paper maps are basically worthless.

They fall apart after barely an hour or two out in the rain, walk a mere 200km and you usually need a whole new map, and you can't see them at all in the dark unless you have a lamp, which means carrying all that heavy whale oil.

Anyone who can't navigate by the stars alone to within a cubit over league should basically just stay home!

Celestial navigation is basically worthless.

Once a puff of cloud or more float over and it’s all over, let alone multi day cloud/fog cover. And as one gets older and lethargic, those billions of dots in the night sky all start to blur into each other, nothing can be worked out.

Anyone who can’t navigate by their bush sixth sense alone to within a cubit over league should basically just stay at home!

[Lophophaps]

Arapiless, that's just plain rude. Bogong summit can be a day trip from Bivouac, Cleve Cole and similar distances. There's also fast people who run up Staircase and back in a morning. Sitting at the cairn on a fine day is no cause for concern. The polite way is that of the school group leader. Maybe being in SAR gives more patience and a more subtle approach.

Neo, there will always be dills. Finding the start of the track at the road at top of the Scenic World was problematic. The signs did not assist. Down to the bottom of the steps, biggish sign Solitary. Burn rubber on the boardwalk, straight past a small sign at the dirt track turnoff. Walked in a circle due to vague directions. The route through the avalanche was tricky, but after that it was easy until the rocks on Solitary, where there are many false leads. It's a bit of a climb up Golden Stairs, Ruined Castle and especially Solitary, but not that hard for those that are fit enough.

One problem for those that do not have enough water is that they may drink from the creeks.

GPSGuided, I carry a loaf of bread and leave a trail of breadcrumbs. There's also my ball of string. Cubits are so last decade.

[Aardvark]

Anyone who can’t navigate by their bush sixth sense alone to within a cubit over league should basically just stay at home!

Man, you need to upgrade your technology. There's a bush seventh sense now.

[Warin]

Cubits are so last decade.

Cubits are fine for builders. Some prefer the more modern perch.
As a bushwalker I prefer strides as these are readily available without continually putting your forearm to the ground.

And for temperature measurement the readily avalible cricket measurement is usefull requiring no weight to be carried. Ref ..http://www.jir.com/ of some decades ago by someone from NPL.

[north-north-west]

Cubits are so last decade.

Cubits are fine for builders. Some prefer the more modern perch.

Must you continue to carp about this? You're just making a rod for your own back. No point chaining yourself to outdated measurements - besides, no-one else will be able to fathom your directions.

[cajun]

Cubits are so last decade.

Cubits are fine for builders. Some prefer the more modern perch.

Must you continue to carp about this? You're just making a rod for your own back. No point chaining yourself to outdated measurements - besides, no-one else will be able to fathom your directions.

Love your work NNW.

I'm definitely not in this league.

[Arapiles]

Arapiless, that's just plain rude. Bogong summit can be a day trip from Bivouac, Cleve Cole and similar distances. There's also fast people who run up Staircase and back in a morning. Sitting at the cairn on a fine day is no cause for concern. The polite way is that of the school group leader. Maybe being in SAR gives more patience and a more subtle approach.

Yes, I thought that they were being rude. And those guys would really hate me now, because after that trip I went UL and now I really do wander around mountains with a daypack!

(And to head off any comments, that daypack has everything required for comfort and safety in it, just a lot lighter than my old stuff.)

[Xplora]

Love your work NNW.

I'm definitely not in this league.

Would you like a link to help you find more measurement puns?

Coming back from Solitary and getting to that point where you see all the inbounds heading out for their 'short walk' with no water or in thongs would be so common now that you would not have time to stop and chat to everyone. I used to chat loudly to my walking buddy about that HUGE brown snake on the track and watch their eyes light up like dinner plates. I wonder how long before the landslide is made into more of a defined walking track suitable for tourists?

[north-north-west]

Love your work NNW.

I'm definitely not in this league.

Would you like a link to help you find more measurement puns?

I was inching in that direction, but I think you two have won this hands down.

[Chunder fuzz]

There are $9 phone cases at BCf that still respond to fingers when the phone's in them. I use one when I go canyoning etc, works fine, and hasn't leaked yet.

What's "BCf"?

I was using a waterproof ziplock (aLoksak) which is supposedly certified waterproof to 60m. I saw videos of people using their phones in these ziplocks underwater as cameras. But after only a few days the plastic lost a fair amount of its optical clarity so I could no longer take decent photos with it in the bag. The biggest problem was trying to manipulate a map on the small screen when everything was wet. I could usually do simpler things like push a virtual button but moving or resizing a map was very difficult. I gave up trying when conditions were really wet and just used my paper map (which I keep in a ziplock, folded to expose the relevant parts).

If there is a compact, lightweight waterproof enclosure that allows normal operation of the touchscreen when it's wet I'd love to know about it.

But even without use in the rain I find the GPS/mapping apps on the phone to be a great tool. My sense of direction kind of sucks. Although I've always managed to bumble my way along with paper map and compass, being able to push a button and know the precise location has been very useful on occasion.

Not from Aus? It's a local camping/fishing store - mostly made up of cheap chinese junk, fishing gear and some useful stuff.

This thing is what I was talking about https://www.bcf.com.au/cleanskin-waterproof-phone-bag/381358.html?cgid=BCF012050

Probably a bit silly trusting a $600-1000 phone to a $10 case but it functions fine and I've usually got a spare paper topo + compass anyway.

[Orion]

I live in California.

The bag I got was also a similar price, although somewhat less bulky as it didn't have the clunky plastic header. While I wouldn't submerge it with my phone inside I trust it to be at least as good and likely somewhat better than a normal ziplock.

But is there any reason to believe that $10 bag from BCf makes it any easier to operate the touchscreen when it's raining and everything is wet?

[Xplora]

I was inching in that direction, but I think you two have won this hands down.

How long can we keep these puns going. Fur(a)long time I would think. Or is that just taking things too far? Some of the puns may be hard to fathom.

[rcaffin]

Fathom has already been used.

Cheers
Roger