Hazbulah wrote:Camping on top of solitary the other week, two walkers came past at about 5pm. Stopped for a brief chat, said they had stayed out too long and needed to get back to narrowneck. No warm clothes or head torches. Shudder to think what the descent off solitary would have been like in the dark.
Hazbulah wrote:Camping on top of solitary the other week, two walkers came past at about 5pm. Stopped for a brief chat, said they had stayed out too long and needed to get back to narrowneck. No warm clothes or head torches. Shudder to think what the descent off solitary would have been like in the dark.
Xplora wrote:Nine people missed the Eskdale spur turnoff from the summit of Bogong last weekend. A couple of internationals were turned around on their way to CC hut, 2 day walkers (well prepared for a day trip) were turned around at Camp Valley on their way to the Long Spur thinking it was Eskdale and spent the night at CC. Another group of 5 self sufficient got to CC thinking it was Michell and stayed the night in tents. All this in just one day so maybe there is a case for a chat and simply ask where they are headed. Trouble is when places get busy you would never get far if you stopped to chat with everyone you meet. PV was notified and I think in time better signage will be erected.
slparker wrote:My impression of many walkers is that they rely on their phone for both map and compass. The map is infinitely scalable by pinching the screen so distance cannot be intuitively calculated.
Whereas if you're used to using a 1:25000 you can quickly appreciate distance.
I just don't think that people whip out the map anymore.
slparker wrote:Hi WW,
I have tried using a phone or GPS but it doesn't work for me. The screen is too small and my brain has been trained to quickly reckon distance from a 1:25000 or 1:50000 scale + the benefits of seeing surrounding terrain and features on a larger field makes it easier to work out map to ground.
I am sure that they can work but my brain is analog. I'd be curious to see one used by someone who has never seen a paper map - perhaps they are better? I like the capacity to find a grid reference on a phone/gps but there is no way that i would depend on an electronic device for navigation.
slparker wrote:I was at CC hut on Sunday- apparently the visibility was poor on Saturday with low cloud, but, mistaking CC for michell hut even in poor weather is quite baffling. I presume they missed the turnoff to Eskdale Spur?
I have been a volunteer at the conquestathon a couple of times. Even in clear conditions people sail straight past the turnoff to Eskdale Spur and don’t believe you when you prompt them to take a left. It mustnt be the most obvious route.
wildwanderer wrote:slparker wrote:Hi WW,
I have tried using a phone or GPS but it doesn't work for me. The screen is too small and my brain has been trained to quickly reckon distance from a 1:25000 or 1:50000 scale + the benefits of seeing surrounding terrain and features on a larger field makes it easier to work out map to ground.
I am sure that they can work but my brain is analog. I'd be curious to see one used by someone who has never seen a paper map - perhaps they are better? I like the capacity to find a grid reference on a phone/gps but there is no way that i would depend on an electronic device for navigation.
Alot of merit in what you say. Paper map is superior in my opinion for awareness of terrain further out than a few square kms. (although larger and higher resolution screens are making seeing greater distance easier on phones).
Always been a paper map user but switch to oruxmaps for android a year ago. Phones waterproof and the battery lasts for over 2 days. (and I carry a back up battery for another 2 days of charge). Biggest benefit is I can plan a route on the computer and reference sat photos/openstreet maps and govt topos and then directly import it all into the phone. I find the computer route planning quite enjoyable.
I have noticed that the convenience can make one lazy. I still use map to ground skills with the gps off for 99% off the walk but If im not 100% sure of my pinpoint location its very tempting to turn on the gps on for a minute and get a precise location… where as before the phone I would needed to do backbearings etc and ensure I was more precisely noting gullys/spurs and other features as I went along.
Hiking in an area I don’t know well, the paper map will be packed as a backup. As you never know when you might trip and smash the phone. (never happened yet but murphys..)
bigwallclimber wrote:Hi There Wild,
I agree with you paper maps laminated and folded correctly and a compass are the best, I used paper maps for 17 years in the Army day in and night out and I never thought I would go to a digital device to navigate with.
I started off with Gaia GPS and I love it but am always looking for a new app to use the skills I have better, I am not someone who really needs the grid lines but they do help. I map to ground most of the time and generally have the route in my head and only pull the digital map out when I am stopped to confirm the locations.
I also use the apps to create a route for the walk and to give me a terrain profile. I honestly think that paper maps woill die a slow and painful death bt with advances in technology it will be embraced.
I also use a suunto watch for routes that is always GPS active and this is only ever in case of emergency (for me and the ill prepared).
If you have someone new relying on a digital map could be dangerous and it is all about reading the map (The legend) and being able to know how much further to go. That could be either by contour lines or the Grid lines.
Embrace tech and advance how we walk to ensure that people stay safe.
Dave
Xplora wrote:Some people have trouble getting themselves to the start of a walk because they rely on technology. GPS in regional areas is not reliable. Directions are often wrong. I have a friend who will only go the way his in car GPS tells him (he likes her voice too). Even though he has been to our place many times he drives past the gate because the device has not told him he has arrived. Its funny but also pretty sad.
bigwallclimber wrote:Xplora that is pretty damn scary to say the least, sometime people do let technology run their lives.
jdeks wrote:Paper maps are basically worthless.
They fall apart after barely an hour or two out in the rain, walk a mere 200km and you usually need a whole new map, and you can't see them at all in the dark unless you have a lamp, which means carrying all that heavy whale oil.
Anyone who can't navigate by the stars alone to within a cubit over league should basically just stay home!
jdeks wrote:Paper maps are basically worthless.
They fall apart after barely an hour or two out in the rain, walk a mere 200km and you usually need a whole new map, and you can't see them at all in the dark unless you have a lamp, which means carrying all that heavy whale oil.
Anyone who can't navigate by the stars alone to within a cubit over league should basically just stay home!
wildwanderer wrote:
These are exactly the reasons why I switched to the phone!
Orion wrote: But in the rain I found that my phone was just about impossible to use. The screen was hard to read through the fancy ziplock I purchased to keep it in. And its response to my finger commands was somewhere between poor and awful. That seems like a big negative to me, at least in a place that tends to be rainy.
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