Bans in national parks

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Bans in national parks

Postby davidf » Tue 25 Dec, 2018 6:17 pm

The blanket ban on fires in national parks until the end of march is stupid. If i went walking i w ould lite a fire anyway.

On the othere side the ban on motorised devices is s goody. I think it should be stretched to encompass phones, gps, cameras, plbs, radios, compasses etc. You dont need this stuff, takes time out of others day and destroys adventure.
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Re: Bans in national parks

Postby ILUVSWTAS » Tue 25 Dec, 2018 6:52 pm

Is this a tongue in cheek post?

You are posting just to say you would light fires in a national park and that people shouldn't carry a GPS or PLB??

Must have been some sweet eggnog you've been into on this merry merry Christmas day......
Nothing to see here.
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Re: Bans in national parks

Postby davidf » Tue 25 Dec, 2018 7:33 pm

No. Blanket bans on fires in NSW national parks is government *&%$#! covering gone crazy, yes plbs was tounge in cheek, the rest were not. If you cant navigate without a gps go somewhere else they should be illegal before fires. People light fires. Gps makes it easier for numpties to get into the bush . More people more problems.
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Re: Bans in national parks

Postby trekker76 » Tue 25 Dec, 2018 7:44 pm

davidf wrote:No. Blanket bans on fires in NSW national parks is government *&%$#! covering gone crazy, yes plbs was tounge in cheek, the rest were not. If you cant navigate without a gps go somewhere else they should be illegal before fires. People light fires. Gps makes it easier for numpties to get into the bush . More people more problems.


Banning GPS as a safer navigation initiative is novel to say the least, the eggnog must be very good. :lol: I understand what you are saying but I'll have to let my army mates still serving know that getting rid of compasses will preserve their sense of 'adventure'. :D But seriously, not the worst I have heard or spoken myself during christmas drinks. Hope you have a good one. :)
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Re: Bans in national parks

Postby davidf » Tue 25 Dec, 2018 8:16 pm

Maps are questionable to, but they are not machines. All i propose is no machines in national parks. Beautiful photos encourage others to beautiful places, ie humans, the most destructive feral of all.
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Re: Bans in national parks

Postby tastrax » Tue 25 Dec, 2018 8:38 pm

davidf wrote:The blanket ban on fires in national parks until the end of march is stupid. If i went walking i would lite a fire anyway.


Dont be a twat! Think of the folks that might have to go and put out your fire, or wildfire, or console the people that have lost property! Do something useful and join the local brigade if you want to see action at a fire.
Cheers - Phil

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Re: Bans in national parks

Postby trekker76 » Tue 25 Dec, 2018 9:30 pm

davidf wrote:Maps are questionable to, but they are not machines. All i propose is no machines in national parks. Beautiful photos encourage others to beautiful places, ie humans, the most destructive feral of all.


Im backing away slowly at this point...
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Re: Bans in national parks

Postby tastrax » Tue 25 Dec, 2018 9:51 pm

fire suit on....
Cheers - Phil

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Re: Bans in national parks

Postby ribuck » Wed 26 Dec, 2018 12:08 am

tastrax wrote:
davidf wrote:The blanket ban on fires in national parks until the end of march is stupid. If i went walking i would lite a fire anyway.


Dont be a twat! Think of the folks that might have to go and put out your fire

I'm sure davidf is referring to lighting a controlled fire, and not one that might become uncontrolled. The blanket ban does not distinguish, e.g. it still applies immediately after a prolonged rainstorm, or to a small fire in a large sandy area with plenty of running water right there.

The arbitrariness of it may be getting to the point where the blanket ban might become year-round and permanent without direct action to preserve the common cultural heritage of all humans: the mastery of fire.
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Re: Bans in national parks

Postby Xplora » Wed 26 Dec, 2018 5:45 am

I would consider a ban on smoking would be appropriate. Already done (1/1/2015). The Aus Institute of Criminology has recorded (Nationwide) 37% of bushfires are started accidentally which includes cigarette butts and campfires.

I would also consider a total ban on all numpties entering National Parks. That should fix most problems. We can extend the list of things which are not necessary to take to include food and water because you should not be out there if you cannot forage your own food or find water. I will leave it up to the individual to work out if I am serious or not. I could add one of those emoticon things to give a clue but I hate them.
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Re: Bans in national parks

Postby tastrax » Wed 26 Dec, 2018 8:07 am

ribuck wrote: I'm sure davidf is referring to lighting a controlled fire, and not one that might become uncontrolled.


I would like to think that as well, but experience tells me someone who is prepared to flout a ban is also likely to be a person that fails to clear sufficient space around their fire, leaves it unattended and fails to sufficiently extinguish it with water when they leave.

Again, if you want to play with fire in extreme conditions, join the local brigade and serve your community.
Cheers - Phil

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Re: Bans in national parks

Postby wildwanderer » Wed 26 Dec, 2018 11:11 am

I don't think davidf is advocating total fire ban days be ignored tastrax.

Rather it's the NSW October-April no campfires while bushwalking ban that he is referring too.

If this fire ban was a considered and measured response to the threat level then I think people would support that. For example during hot weather/high winds having a stove only restriction in place until the weather cools would be a measurd responce.(Continue to have the total fire ban including stoves on the most extreme days)

But the October-April ban is not a measured or well thought out responce. It's come from someone in nsw national parks who wants all fires to be banned in national parks aside from designated car camping areas. And the most ridiculous part of the ban is that designated car camp areas are where the most risk is located ! ( See Mr chainsaw and mates with their massive bonfire while consuming a case of beer/bourbon)

But I guess the 4wd lobby has an effective parliamentary strategy to lobby MPs/national parks service.

Bushwalkers... Got no idea what bushwalking NSW does except tag on to the national bodies insurance scheme and go to conferences..
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Re: Bans in national parks

Postby DaveNoble » Wed 26 Dec, 2018 1:50 pm

wildwanderer wrote:Rather it's the NSW October-April no campfires while bushwalking ban that he is referring too.



This park fire ban has been lifted for many of the national parks. I think it may still apply for Wollemi NP though.

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Re: Bans in national parks

Postby tastrax » Wed 26 Dec, 2018 2:00 pm

Anyone have a link to this no campfires ban?
Cheers - Phil

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Re: Bans in national parks

Postby ofuros » Wed 26 Dec, 2018 2:28 pm

Mountains view are good for my soul...& getting to them is good for my waistline !
https://ofuros.exposure.co/
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Re: Bans in national parks

Postby wildwanderer » Wed 26 Dec, 2018 3:22 pm

DaveNoble wrote:
wildwanderer wrote:Rather it's the NSW October-April no campfires while bushwalking ban that he is referring too.



This park fire ban has been lifted for many of the national parks. I think it may still apply for Wollemi NP though.

Dave


That's excellent news :)
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Re: Bans in national parks

Postby tastrax » Wed 26 Dec, 2018 5:26 pm

ofuros wrote:https://www.nationalparks.nsw.gov.au/alerts/alerts-list


https://www.nationalparks.nsw.gov.au/sa ... /fire-bans


Thanks Ofuros,

It certainly looks like someone is keen on "Fuel Stove Only" until March (first link) but I must admit I don't know a lot about the state of fuel loads, access and egress etc in most of those parks. However, coming from Tassie where its mainly fuel stoves only it wouldnt worry me (plus its generally colder, wetter and windier down here so few folks try and light fires on walking trips anyway)

Second link mainly seems to refer to normal Fire Bans.

Maybe one thing to do is start asking for the data behind the bans, that has made certain parks get the High category - better still - ask them to publish it online (because they must have done the work to get to the high category!). Keep 'em honest!

NPWS may declare a park fire ban or even close particular reserves where the potential risk to visitors from fire is high. This includes reserves with limited access (eg only one road in and out), a high or very high overall fuel hazard, or reserves where all visitor access sites are upslope from vegetated areas.
Cheers - Phil

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Re: Bans in national parks

Postby andrewa » Wed 26 Dec, 2018 6:42 pm

Back to the OP, I do understand the point he’s making.

For it to work requires *&^%$#@! not to be so, and for those reliant on modern technology not to rely on it.

I’m mid 50s - how DavidF is describing is as I always did, and will do.

It’s why I love my time “AWAY” in the bush.....minimalise *&^%$#@! and technology.
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Re: Bans in national parks

Postby davidf » Thu 27 Dec, 2018 10:23 am

My original post was partly tounge in cheek. But i do feel strongly against the nsw national park blanket fire ban. Its not because i souly like to play with fire but if its when and miserable, cold or lots of bugs and the conditions allow i cannot see someone with knowledge creating lighting a fire. Obeying a fire ban in threating conditions is totally reasonable. Most out of control fires are started by people like the military or 4wders who dont give a flying of what damage they do. My anti tech was very general. Mobiles and gps are not nessecary, yes i have used and appreciated them, but a bit like cairns. Had my first experience of someone playing music off the side of there pack last week. Blood boiled.

Anyway andrewa about seems to of got where i am coming from.

Dont get me started on the warragamba exclusion zone!
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Re: Bans in national parks

Postby trekker76 » Thu 27 Dec, 2018 4:18 pm

davidf wrote:Most out of control fires are started by people like the military or 4wders who dont give a flying of what damage they do.


hmmm...I'd agree 4wders and campers in general. The military probably makes up less than 1% the number of the other two groups in the bush. Not to mention they don't use campfires( A poor habit to devlope when enemry uses light and heat sources to target people :D )

Theyve had some spectacular planned burns and munition disposals go wrong certainly, but to say one of the major groups for bushfires would be stretching the math I think.
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Re: Bans in national parks

Postby Neo » Thu 27 Dec, 2018 9:33 pm

At first I thought the long ban across the Blueys was a bit over the top. Then I often see campfires too large and most left as hot ashes in the morning, rarely put out properly with water.

So given the silly season, heat extremes and numbnuts out car camping, I can see the point of the wider ban.

If you are a bushwalker and want a small fire, go ahead responsibly because you know how.
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Re: Bans in national parks

Postby Warin » Fri 28 Dec, 2018 10:02 am

Neo wrote:So given the silly season, heat extremes and numbnuts out car camping, I can see the point of the wider ban.

If you are a bushwalker and want a small fire, go ahead responsibly because you know how.


At some popular 'camping' spots the fire ban does not apply. Usually these places are popular with those 'numbnuts'. I'm fine with that - keeps them all together in a known (trouble) spot.

The problem with a bushwalker fire .. is others may follow and see the evidence and do similar .. without the corresponding care.
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Re: Bans in national parks

Postby Moondog55 » Fri 28 Dec, 2018 10:35 am

Well if we practice leave no trace camping that wouldn't be a problem. Leave no trace where small fires are concerned is easy but may mean having to take a small shovel or some other way of making a safe hole
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Re: Bans in national parks

Postby tastrax » Fri 28 Dec, 2018 3:29 pm

Moondog55 wrote:Well if we practice leave no trace camping that wouldn't be a problem. Leave no trace where small fires are concerned is easy but may mean having to take a small shovel or some other way of making a safe hole


Cant agree with you on that Moondog IF there is a legal basis behind the ban. Its OK to disagree with it, but flouting the law just means you are prepared to accept BAD LAWS. Better to make the Parks Service justify their processes to ensure that its a clear and transparent process. As I have stated previously, folks that are prepared to break the law (albeit what they think is a bad one) are also 'generally' the ones that don't do the right thing as far as extinguishing the fire and clearing around it.

In the end its them that give others a bad name.
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Re: Bans in national parks

Postby Moondog55 » Fri 28 Dec, 2018 4:39 pm

I never said we should break the rules. That decision is up to the individual.
I was commenting on people leaving fire scars behind when the ethic is "Leave no trace"
However we do not at present have this stupid rule in Victoria, blanket bans are by default stupid if they cannot be enforced and this one would be impossible to enforce given the few feet on the ground and the lack of money in the kitty.
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Re: Bans in national parks

Postby CraigVIC » Fri 28 Dec, 2018 7:36 pm

Whether it's Lerderderg State or the Grampians National or many in between, blanket fire bans are pretty common in Victoria.
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Re: Bans in national parks

Postby Moondog55 » Fri 28 Dec, 2018 9:20 pm

Fire bans here in Vic are on a park by park basis still where-as a blanket ban as in NSW applies to the whole state whether it is appropriate or not.
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Re: Bans in national parks

Postby CraigVIC » Sat 29 Dec, 2018 2:35 am

Moondog55 wrote:Fire bans here in Vic are on a park by park basis still where-as a blanket ban as in NSW applies to the whole state whether it is appropriate or not.


I don't really see the special significance of the difference. The reality is that many bushwalkers don't agree with or abide fire bans and won't change no matter what evidence of it's 'appropriateness' is put before them. Whether they are in place for set periods or set places.
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Re: Bans in national parks

Postby Warin » Sat 29 Dec, 2018 6:11 am

Moondog55 wrote:s a blanket ban as in NSW applies to the whole state whether it is appropriate or not.


Fire bans are made by the Fire Service in NSW are district wide not state wide.

https://www.rfs.nsw.gov.au/fire-informa ... and-tobans

Park fire ban in NSW National Parks are imposed on various NPs - not necessarily all of them.
https://www.nationalparks.nsw.gov.au/alerts/alerts-list
For instance at present .. Blue Mts NP has no park fire ban, but the Gardens of Stone NP does
Park Fire Ban conditions are listed on
https://www.nationalparks.nsw.gov.au/sa ... /fire-bans
I quote what is does allow as there appears to be some confusion over it;
Visitor-owned gas and electric barbecues and cookers are permitted as long as:

* They're under direct control of an adult
* The ground within 2m of the barbecue is cleared of all flammable materials
* There's an adequate supply of water (minimum of a bucket)
Last edited by Warin on Sat 29 Dec, 2018 6:48 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Bans in national parks

Postby Aardvark » Sat 29 Dec, 2018 6:13 am

CraigVIC wrote:The reality is that many bushwalkers don't agree with or abide fire bans and won't change no matter what evidence of it's 'appropriateness' is put before them. Whether they are in place for set periods or set places.


Sadly, that's true.
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