snake bite

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Re: snake bite

Postby lee737 » Tue 16 Feb, 2016 12:25 pm

jackhinde wrote:The tragedy is an unfortunate reminder to parents to know the correct first aid and be prepared.


I always wonder in these cases the exact circumstances of the bite - where on body, clothing/shoes, activity being undertaken, what first aid attempts were made and after what sort of delay?
A brown snake bite on a child in a remote area is my worst nightmare..... even with medical training, first aid supplies, PLB etc
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Re: snake bite

Postby Overlandman » Wed 09 Mar, 2016 8:36 pm

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Re: snake bite

Postby jackhinde » Sat 12 Mar, 2016 7:48 pm

Lucky? Yes indeed, though that he seems to have remained commendedly cool, calm and collected in a bad situation, was no doubt was the greatest aid to his survival. An interesting case, since most snakeys keep their bites quiet, as they are embarrassed and don't want attention from wild life authorities who may get all nanny state inspired and prevent us keeping these animals as pets. This fella was bagging up the animal as he was selling it. Caused curious consternation in the snakey world when he and his sister got the media involved. I hope he has no nasty ongoing health issues once he gets off dialysis.
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snake bite

Postby GPSGuided » Sun 13 Mar, 2016 4:43 am

So what was his 'calm and quick thinking'? Just what did he do? Chop his thumb off on the spot? Ummm...
Just move it!
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Re: snake bite

Postby Overlandman » Thu 31 Mar, 2016 4:32 pm

Wonder if the snake got alcohol poisoning :?

http://www.couriermail.com.au/news/quee ... 7ce44bf3ba
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Re: snake bite

Postby Overlandman » Tue 12 Apr, 2016 10:16 pm

Reading the comments he was well liked and did his job well.
Sympathy to friends and family.
RIP Wayne.
OLM

http://www.couriermail.com.au/news/quee ... 1209d0df3c

A QUEENSLAND snake catcher with a “heart of gold” has died after being bitten on the job.

Wayne Cameron, 54, was rescuing a Coastal Taipan off Moores Creek Rd in Rockhampton when he was bitten on the arm on Sunday afternoon.

Mr Cameron took every precaution, bandaging his arm and going to hospital, despite believing it had been a “dry bite”.

The bandage was removed after Mr Cameron tested negative for venom but shortly after he began feeling dizzy and had convulsions.

Hospital staff were able to revive Mr Cameron once when his heart stopped but he later died with his wife and daughter by his side, just over an hour after arriving at hospital.

Family friend Nicole Sloan said staff did everything they could to save Mr Cameron and it was believed his previous ill health possibly compounded the situation.


From ABC

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2016-04-12/s ... ection=qld

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Snake catcher's death in Rockhampton a tragic reminder of dangers of job
ABC Capricornia By Paul Robinson
Updated about 5 hours ago

Inland taipan
PHOTO: The ABC understands a taipan delivered the fatal bite to snake catcher, Wayne Cameron. (666 ABC Canberra: Jim Trail)
RELATED STORY: Snake warning issued after 6yo's death in north western NSWRELATED STORY: Snakes bite nine people in Queensland in 36 hoursRELATED STORY: Snake bite death prompts warning
MAP: Rockhampton 4700
A central Queensland snake catcher says a fatal bite in Rockhampton highlights the risks of handling the deadly reptile.

Professional snake removalist Wayne Cameron, aged 54, died on Sunday after being bitten while trying to catch a snake, believed to be a taipan.

Fellow Rockhampton snake catcher Benjamin Hansen said Mr Cameron's death was a stark reminder of the dangers of the job.

"Each time you've got to read [the situation] and each time we put our lives at risk, every time we do it," Mr Hansen said.

"As soon as you try to catch a snake you're 80 per cent more likely to get bitten by that snake by just immediately putting yourself in that position.

What is a coastal taipan?

Light olive to dark brown, but sometimes dark grey to black in colour
Grows to 2.9 metres
Found in Central Queensland and northern and eastern Australia
Lives in open forest, dry closed forests, coastal heaths and grassy beach dunes
Active during the day and in early evening
Source: Queensland Museum
"It's scary. It just reaffirms you've got to be careful with what we do and no matter how good your system is and how experienced you are, things can still go wrong."

Mr Hansen said it was rare to come across a taipan in Rockhampton.

"They're not a snake that we encounter a lot," he said.

"We do mainly come across pythons and eastern browns; [they] seem to be the predominant."

He said there were a range of techniques snake catchers could use to reduce the risk.

"[But] some situations and scenarios don't always allow for that," he said.

"Some scenarios you've actually got to aggravate the snake to get him out of the hole ... so you can actually get him."

He said if someone was bitten by a snake, it was essential to reduce their activity.

"The main thing is to keep yourself as calm as possible and keep yourself as still as possible to minimise how much you pump that venom around your system," he said.

"But [call] triple-0 straight up no matter what."

It was understood Mr Cameron attempted to drive himself to hospital after the bite.
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Re: snake bite

Postby Overlandman » Tue 06 Sep, 2016 7:37 pm

I caught my first snake for the season last Thursday.
A Copperhead laying on a warm road near Ulverstone.
I let it go on its way
Regards OLM
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Re: snake bite

Postby Overlandman » Mon 03 Oct, 2016 5:46 pm

From ABC

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2016-10-03/c ... fe/7898734

I hope Eli pulls through.
I will donate to the Gofundme page
OLM

A two-year-old boy is fighting for his life in a Brisbane hospital a week after being bitten three times by one of the deadliest snakes in the world.
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Re: snake bite

Postby slparker » Tue 04 Oct, 2016 12:43 pm

i too hope the child recovers well - but why do the parents need $20, 000?
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Re: snake bite

Postby Lindsay » Wed 05 Oct, 2016 7:28 am

slparker wrote:i too hope the child recovers well - but why do the parents need $20, 000?


Yes, I was wondering that as well. :?
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Re: snake bite

Postby slparker » Wed 05 Oct, 2016 9:23 am

deleted: cynicism
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Re: snake bite

Postby flyfisher » Wed 05 Oct, 2016 10:53 am

I don't reckon the parents set the amount, the Go fund me would have maybe.

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Re: snake bite

Postby Strider » Wed 05 Oct, 2016 11:53 am

slparker wrote:i too hope the child recovers well - but why do the parents need $20, 000?

Presumably to cover regular costs while off work, as well as the added costs of staying away from home for an extended period.
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Re: snake bite

Postby Overlandman » Mon 28 Nov, 2016 6:59 pm

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Re: snake bite

Postby Gadgetgeek » Mon 28 Nov, 2016 8:08 pm

They would set the amount, based on certain advice. A factor would be that while gofundme still accepts donations after the goal, most tend to trend down as they near it, so lets say the actual total costs is more like 10k if they put that, the likelyhood is that they would start to slow up at the 7.5 mark since a lot would look and go, "well, they are almost there" It also depends on what sort of tension is on the rest of the budget, or how what sort of bills they may be on the hook for, Its the sort of thing where they might be able to now pay someone to do something that would have otherwise have to be done for free. At the end of the day its just a more effective way for someone to pass the hat, and we all still choose if we toss in a buck. I don't know the stats, or if anyone does, but I would suspect a fair number of folks donate their surplus to other organizations like RMH, careflight or what-have-you. Lots of factors, its easy to get cynical, but people are generally pretty good.
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Re: snake bite

Postby dunamis » Mon 28 Nov, 2016 9:20 pm

If anyone is interested I believe there's a snake handling course coming up next month in the North of Tassie. Should be exciting.


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Re: snake bite

Postby WarrenH » Sat 17 Dec, 2016 5:02 pm

During October 2012, I was bitten just above the ankle by an Eastern Brown Snake, in the early morning, when the light was dazzling and the shadows jet black. I was caretaking a property on the Eastern foreshore of Googong Dam. I had just started a bike ride and was still relatively close to the house. The property has lots of snakes at times. They like to slither under the banks of batteries in the battery shed for warmth (for wind turbines and solar panels) and near the farm dams and pumping shed. Walking into the battery shed is dangerous, several brown snakes have been netted and removed from there.

Initially it was considered to be a dry bite by a doctor at the Canberra Hospital despite there being blood and bite marks on my leg. After hours of observation I was released from hospital, later that evening and told that I was lucky to be alive. About 27 minutes is about all the time an adult gets after an envenomation from an Eastern Brown, that's all, unless the bite is correctly dealt with.

I went cycle touring for a few days a couple of days later, then after returning home I went down hill like a tonne of bricks. Apparently venom on the skin was washed into the wound and it took a while to leach out of my shin muscle, slowly causing problems. I was ill for nearly 10 months, I couldn't walk 100metres without repeatedly tearing the muscles in my right leg, from my hip to ankle, and necrosis set in for well over a year at the bite site. I declined having a skin graft and I'm now glad that I did, it has healed well. When I first became ill I didn't even consider that the snake bite was the problem, until I was re-diagnosed.

Anyway, within about a minute of being bitten, I pulled on a leg of a women's panty hose. It was uniformly tight, and far quicker to pull up than trying to even-out the compression of a bandage, over my foot to my thigh then back down over my foot. I was by myself. The tight panty hose does exactly what a compression bandage does, but does it uniformly. Panty hose stays in my medical kit and I have a pair of double woven canvas gaiters, that travel with me a lot ... nowadays.

Warren.

PS, About netting the snakes. The battery shed is about the size of a garage. It is totally filled with batteries, each battery standing nearly a metre high. There is a space under the batteries of about 6-8cm. When snakes are known to be under the batteries, they're easily spotted, when you come upon them entering the shed. They usually bolt for the shed. A fine white net/mesh, like the ones used to protect fruit trees, is placed on the ground in front of the batteries. When the snakes try to cross the mesh to leave the shed they get tangled in the net. And, then they're relocated. Snakes have good memories but are slow learners, I'm sure the same snake has been relocated a few times ... and being bitten was a pay-back.
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Re: snake bite

Postby ribuck » Sat 17 Dec, 2016 8:46 pm

Thanks, WarrenH. Panty hose sounds like a brilliant idea. I'll be adding it to my first aid kit immediately. I doubt it would be useful for a bite on the arm though.
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Re: snake bite

Postby WarrenH » Sun 18 Dec, 2016 5:35 am

ribuck, you're welcome.

ribuck wrote: I doubt it would be useful for a bite on the arm though.


You don't have to pull a pair of panty hose on, to work well on an arm. What is a pair of panty hose when not worn on legs? ... it's a perfectly long stretchy bandage, long enough for one leg to wrap the hand and wined up the arm, the pelvic section of the hose is also a broad stretchy bandage and the other leg to wind back down. Isn't the old adage, everything in you pack should do at least two jobs?

I also carry two, two elasticise bandages in my kit as well ... hopefully for nothing more than a sprained ankle.
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Re: snake bite

Postby slparker » Sun 18 Dec, 2016 8:01 am

Stockings are unlikely to provide the pressure required to compress lymphatic vessels in the leg, and so stop or slow venom progression. The pressure required is fairly high which is why the Australian Resuscitation Council recommend a broad elasticised compressive bandage and correct training.
You will amuse the SAR team and ED staff when you rock up in stockings, though.
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Re: snake bite

Postby WarrenH » Sun 18 Dec, 2016 2:57 pm

slparker wrote:Stockings are unlikely to provide the pressure required to compress lymphatic vessels in the leg, and so stop or slow venom progression. The pressure required is fairly high which is why the Australian Resuscitation Council recommend a broad elasticised compressive bandage and correct training.
You will amuse the SAR team and ED staff when you rock up in stockings, though.


Do you know that for a fact, mate, because it was the advice from 000 that told me to use the panty hose.

The conversation went like this.

I've been bitten by an Eastern Brown Snake and I'm by myself. I then gave 000 my name and my exact location and I offered them the GPS co-ordinates. I was told that the ambulance was already on its way and that the GPS co-ordinates were of no use as the ambulance wasn't equipped to cope with the GPS co-ordinates.

I was immediately put through to an emergency medical person who asked me was there a woman in the house. When I said yes, but not at home, I was told to go into the bedroom, find some panty hose, which will be in the top draw and pull one leg over the bitten leg then wind the other leg back down as far as I could. When the ambulance officers arrived they swapped the panty hose for a crepe pressure bandage, that was fitted no where near as tightly as the panty hose was.

That was 000's advice to me mate and not my original idea. Me being several sizes bigger than the woman whose panty hose I had used, the panty hose was as tight as I could have wished.

I have done a wilderness first aid certificate with Wilderness First Aid Consultants. I do think that I have a bit of a clue. If the panty hose was not tight, and it was very tight, I would have used my pressure bandages. Ask the woman in your life, does she keep here panty hose in the top draw of the dresser. The person who gave me the emergency advice knew exactly what was going on. The speed which this all happened was rapid and maybe the speed of using the panty hose outweighed the slowness of me putting on a pressure bandage and achieving and maintaining a uniform pressure.

Do you give emergency advice on 000? I don't overlook that the advice that I read on forums, is consistent with what I paid for. Nor should anyone.

Warren.
Last edited by WarrenH on Sun 18 Dec, 2016 4:06 pm, edited 4 times in total.
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Re: snake bite

Postby photohiker » Sun 18 Dec, 2016 3:57 pm

http://biomedicalsciences.unimelb.edu.a ... -first-aid

Bites to the lower limb

1. Apply a broad pressure bandage over the bite site as soon as possible.
Crepe bandages are ideal, but any flexible material may be used. Clothing, towels etc may be torn into strips. Panty hose have been successfully used.

Do not take off clothing, as the movement of doing so will promote the movement of venom into the blood stream. Keep the bitten limb, and the patient, still.

Bandage upwards from the lower portion of the bitten limb. Even though a little venom may be squeezed upwards, the bandage will be more comfortable, and therefore can be left in place for longer if required.


Best to have an appropriate bandage in your pack and apply it effectively. Having to walk back to the house and find the pantyhose in your missus' drawers will increase the risk from the bite.
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Re: snake bite

Postby slparker » Sun 18 Dec, 2016 5:49 pm

WarrenH wrote:
slparker wrote:Stockings are unlikely to provide the pressure required to compress lymphatic vessels in the leg, and so stop or slow venom progression. The pressure required is fairly high which is why the Australian Resuscitation Council recommend a broad elasticised compressive bandage and correct training.
You will amuse the SAR team and ED staff when you rock up in stockings, though.


Do you know that for a fact, mate, because it was the advice from 000 that told me to use the panty hose.

The conversation went like this.

I've been bitten by an Eastern Brown Snake and I'm by myself. I then gave 000 my name and my exact location and I offered them the GPS co-ordinates. I was told that the ambulance was already on its way and that the GPS co-ordinates were of no use as the ambulance wasn't equipped to cope with the GPS co-ordinates.

I was immediately put through to an emergency medical person who asked me was there a woman in the house. When I said yes, but not at home, I was told to go into the bedroom, find some panty hose, which will be in the top draw and pull one leg over the bitten leg then wind the other leg back down as far as I could. When the ambulance officers arrived they swapped the panty hose for a crepe pressure bandage, that was fitted no where near as tightly as the panty hose was.

That was 000's advice to me mate and not my original idea. Me being several sizes bigger than the woman whose panty hose I had used, the panty hose was as tight as I could have wished.

I have done a wilderness first aid certificate with Wilderness First Aid Consultants. I do think that I have a bit of a clue. If the panty hose was not tight, and it was very tight, I would have used my pressure bandages. Ask the woman in your life, does she keep here panty hose in the top draw of the dresser. The person who gave me the emergency advice knew exactly what was going on. The speed which this all happened was rapid and maybe the speed of using the panty hose outweighed the slowness of me putting on a pressure bandage and achieving and maintaining a uniform pressure.

Do you give emergency advice on 000? I don't overlook that the advice that I read on forums, is consistent with what I paid for. Nor should anyone.

Warren.


Hi Warren,
Using pantihose is not the treatment for snakebite, unless the treatment has changed in the last 6 months. Looking at the Arc guidelines just now they still recommend PIM and recommend that it should e tight enough not to easily be able to insert a finger under the bandage.

Tight pantihose might work, I don't disagree, but it has it ever been tested for the degree of pressure that it provides. So how do you know that it works? For example, What size should you use, what if you have skinny legs, what if it tears etc. The pressure required to slow down the lymphatic system is considerable. That's a lot of ifs to be recommending a change to an established practice without experimental evidence.

It should not be recommended as an alternative to something that does work, albeit never been rigorously tested, except in animal and case studies

Pantihose are likely to better than nothing, and can be self applied, unless you have to make another of muscular movement to don them, but better still is the treatment described on your first aid course which is the PIM.

Since you are rightly questioning my credentials:
I don't provide advice for 000 calls but I was an army combat first aid instructor, on the editing team for the army first aid manual; which included snake bite treatment,have been an ICU nurse and have treated snakebite in pre-hospital and critical care health. I do not consider myself an expert in treating envenomation but in my job I do have access to what the experts have written in the field - and they still recommend PIM.

The layperson should not start treating snakebite with pantihose if the recommended treatment is available. Until the guidelines change to recommend hosiery as the treatment I think we should stick with the PIM.
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Re: snake bite

Postby jdeks » Sun 18 Dec, 2016 6:11 pm

WarrenH wrote:
slparker wrote:Stockings are unlikely to provide the pressure required to compress lymphatic vessels in the leg, and so stop or slow venom progression. The pressure required is fairly high which is why the Australian Resuscitation Council recommend a broad elasticised compressive bandage and correct training.
You will amuse the SAR team and ED staff when you rock up in stockings, though.


Do you know that for a fact, mate, because it was the advice from 000 that told me to use the panty hose.

The conversation went like this.

I've been bitten by an Eastern Brown Snake and I'm by myself. I then gave 000 my name and my exact location and I offered them the GPS co-ordinates. I was told that the ambulance was already on its way and that the GPS co-ordinates were of no use as the ambulance wasn't equipped to cope with the GPS co-ordinates.

I was immediately put through to an emergency medical person who asked me was there a woman in the house. When I said yes, but not at home, I was told to go into the bedroom, find some panty hose, which will be in the top draw and pull one leg over the bitten leg then wind the other leg back down as far as I could. When the ambulance officers arrived they swapped the panty hose for a crepe pressure bandage, that was fitted no where near as tightly as the panty hose was.

That was 000's advice to me mate and not my original idea. Me being several sizes bigger than the woman whose panty hose I had used, the panty hose was as tight as I could have wished.

I have done a wilderness first aid certificate with Wilderness First Aid Consultants. I do think that I have a bit of a clue. If the panty hose was not tight, and it was very tight, I would have used my pressure bandages. Ask the woman in your life, does she keep here panty hose in the top draw of the dresser. The person who gave me the emergency advice knew exactly what was going on. The speed which this all happened was rapid and maybe the speed of using the panty hose outweighed the slowness of me putting on a pressure bandage and achieving and maintaining a uniform pressure.

Do you give emergency advice on 000? I don't overlook that the advice that I read on forums, is consistent with what I paid for. Nor should anyone.

Warren.



Yeah, so after reading this, I've just now emailed called two mates of mine who are doctors living and working in rural areas crawling with snakes this time of year, and a paramedic buddy for good measure.

One of them made a funny joke about "depends what sort of 'snake' you're getting 'bitten' by, but otherwise universal response was if youre keen on maximizing your odds, use a compression bandage. Nothing < pantyhose <<<<<<<<< Compression Immobilization bandage.

Paramedic said "000 operators often give advice at the level they think will help the caller. If they dont think the caller is capable of doing a decent bandage job themselves, they might opt for something simpler that'll buy some time till we get there. But we sure dont carry pantyhose in our bags"

Also, considering that you said in the end, no venom was actually injected (and yet you still wound up having ongoing complications), I wouldn't think this case really demonstrates the pantyhose were an effective treatment.
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Re: snake bite

Postby WarrenH » Sun 18 Dec, 2016 6:20 pm

slparker, G'day again.

I'm only telling the forum what I did after being bitten, when I was given emergency medical advice by the medical expert on 000. Are you telling me that when I was given advice from the medical expert on 000, that I should have challenged them because their advice wasn't world's best practice?

I've already stated what I would have done if the pantyhose wasn't tight. Cherry picking while deliberately disregarding my other comments like, I would have used a pressure bandage if the pantyhose was not tight, is being very ordinary.

jdeks wrote:Also, considering that you said in the end, no venom was actually injected (and yet you still wound up having ongoing complications), I wouldn't think this case really demonstrates the pantyhose were an effective treatment.


One could also say that the compression bandage that was placed on me by the ambulance officers after they removed the pantyhose ... was just as useless? It was about 12 hours after being bitten that doctors think that the venom may have been washed into the wound, when the wound was being cleaned.

Well I wonder what you guys would have done, if you were by yourself and the medical expert on the other end of the 000 line told you to pull-on a leg of a women's panty hose to save time. How long does it take you to put on a compression bandage on when you're by yourself? Bound over the foot, all the way up to your thigh and then back down again to finish by covering your foot with uniform pressure, remembering to keep the limb as still as possible ... without help?

If my medical kit had have been in easy reach, and not in my car 40 metres away in the driveway, with a climb up two flights of stairs to get to the driveway which is level with roof of the house, then returning the same way to get the phone, maybe I would have used pressure bandages instead.

Warren.
Last edited by WarrenH on Sun 18 Dec, 2016 7:10 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: snake bite

Postby photohiker » Sun 18 Dec, 2016 7:03 pm

To be fair, Warren. Pantyhose would never be as tight and as even as a compression bandage. It just isn't.

Pantyhose wound around your leg rather than just being pulled on, also won't be long enough as a compression bandage and won't be deliver even pressure as a good compression bandage like the Setopress (10cm wide x 3.5 metres)
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Re: snake bite

Postby WarrenH » Sun 18 Dec, 2016 7:22 pm

photohiker wrote:To be fair, Warren. Pantyhose would never be as tight and as even as a compression bandage. It just isn't.

Pantyhose wound around your leg rather than just being pulled on, also won't be long enough as a compression bandage and won't be deliver even pressure as a good compression bandage like the Setopress (10cm wide x 3.5 metres)


What don't you guys get? I know that, I'm not a simpleton ... I used what was easily got and available after being advised by the medical expert on 000. In an earlier post I've stated that I carry two compression bandages. Nor did I say that I have faith in the pantyhose only, nor would I use it only, apart from that one time when I had little option.

I know Australia leads the world in snake bite recovery. I know the correct procedures for the maintenance of a snake bite. Following the correct procedures WHEN POSSIBLE is the reason why we do. But I certainly wasn't prepared to do nothing because I wasn't able to preform world's best practice then. There are times when being resourceful might be a better option than possibly being dead.

What.
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Re: snake bite

Postby geoskid » Sun 18 Dec, 2016 9:06 pm

WarrenH wrote:
slparker wrote:Stockings are unlikely to provide the pressure required to compress lymphatic vessels in the leg, and so stop or slow venom progression. The pressure required is fairly high which is why the Australian Resuscitation Council recommend a broad elasticised compressive bandage and correct training.
You will amuse the SAR team and ED staff when you rock up in stockings, though.


Do you know that for a fact, mate, because it was the advice from 000 that told me to use the panty hose.

The conversation went like this.

I've been bitten by an Eastern Brown Snake and I'm by myself. I then gave 000 my name and my exact location and I offered them the GPS co-ordinates. I was told that the ambulance was already on its way and that the GPS co-ordinates were of no use as the ambulance wasn't equipped to cope with the GPS co-ordinates.

I was immediately put through to an emergency medical person who asked me was there a woman in the house. When I said yes, but not at home, I was told to go into the bedroom, find some panty hose, which will be in the top draw and pull one leg over the bitten leg then wind the other leg back down as far as I could. When the ambulance officers arrived they swapped the panty hose for a crepe pressure bandage, that was fitted no where near as tightly as the panty hose was.

That was 000's advice to me mate and not my original idea. Me being several sizes bigger than the woman whose panty hose I had used, the panty hose was as tight as I could have wished.

I have done a wilderness first aid certificate with Wilderness First Aid Consultants. I do think that I have a bit of a clue. If the panty hose was not tight, and it was very tight, I would have used my pressure bandages. Ask the woman in your life, does she keep here panty hose in the top draw of the dresser. The person who gave me the emergency advice knew exactly what was going on. The speed which this all happened was rapid and maybe the speed of using the panty hose outweighed the slowness of me putting on a pressure bandage and achieving and maintaining a uniform pressure.

Do you give emergency advice on 000? I don't overlook that the advice that I read on forums, is consistent with what I paid for. Nor should anyone.

Warren.


G'day Warren,
I remember when you posted about this.
I'm interested in the necrosis, because this was obviously an after effect, and potentially worse than the initial dry bite. Still, and as then, glad your all good now(?)
(your story may seem odd to some because you could rummage thru a ladies top drawer in a minute quicker than you could get to your kit 40m away. :mrgreen: )
Critical Thinking.. the awakening of the intellect to the study of itself.
http://www.criticalthinking.org/
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Re: snake bite

Postby photohiker » Sun 18 Dec, 2016 10:06 pm

WarrenH wrote:
photohiker wrote:To be fair, Warren. Pantyhose would never be as tight and as even as a compression bandage. It just isn't.

Pantyhose wound around your leg rather than just being pulled on, also won't be long enough as a compression bandage and won't be deliver even pressure as a good compression bandage like the Setopress (10cm wide x 3.5 metres)


What don't you guys get? I know that, I'm not a simpleton ... I used what was easily got and available after being advised by the medical expert on 000. In an earlier post I've stated that I carry two compression bandages. Nor did I say that I have faith in the pantyhose only, nor would I use it only, apart from that one time when I had little option.

I know Australia leads the world in snake bite recovery. I know the correct procedures for the maintenance of a snake bite. Following the correct procedures WHEN POSSIBLE is the reason why we do. But I certainly wasn't prepared to do nothing because I wasn't able to preform world's best practice then. There are times when being resourceful might be a better option than possibly being dead.

What.


I get that. You have to do the best you can in the circumstances you have.

But lets not suggest that a pantyhose would guarantee to save someone with an actual toxic snake bite compared to a compression bandage. You were very lucky, and by the sound of your story you would likely have survived with no bandage anyway. Of course any of us would do whatever we can as you did.

If you are in snake season and walking in snake territory protect yourself and carry suitable compression bandages. Carry communication devices.
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Re: snake bite

Postby jdeks » Mon 19 Dec, 2016 9:09 am

WarrenH wrote:
jdeks wrote:Also, considering that you said in the end, no venom was actually injected (and yet you still wound up having ongoing complications), I wouldn't think this case really demonstrates the pantyhose were an effective treatment.


One could also say that the compression bandage that was placed on me by the ambulance officers after they removed the pantyhose ... was just as useless?


Yes, you could say that. But then you'd be rather missing the point , for the sake of being blindly defensive.

WarrenH wrote:Well I wonder what you guys would have done, if you were by yourself and the medical expert on the other end of the 000 line told you to pull-on a leg of a women's panty hose to save time. How long does it take you to put on a compression bandage on when you're by yourself?


About 45-60 seconds last time I had cause to, and if the operator asked me to put on pantyhose, I'd be asking them do they want that over the top of the bandage I put on already. It's not that hard, and I sure as heck know with more confidence where my bandages are, than where the nearest suitably sized womens undergarments may or may not be.

Nobody's criticizing your actions at the time. The issue here is that you came into the thread with your story, and used it to make the statement that " The tight panty hose does exactly what a compression bandage does" (which is incorrect), and to advocate carrying them as bite treatment in a first aid kit (which is incorrect medical advice and arguably dangerous). It's great that it 'worked' and you're not dead, but it doesn't change the fact that people should really go for the bandage as their first action, and not start coming up with their own wacky substitutes. Heck, we already have enough trouble convincing people to stop applying torniquets, more anecdotal misinformation doesn't help at all.
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