What to do in such a situation - and do you set off PLB?

[emma_melbourne]

I've been reading of the situation in Tasmania with blizzard conditions, hikers missing - a number now found, and 1 still missing.

I would be unsure myself what I would be "meant" to do in such a situation.

For example, say hypothetically if you're a blizzard and let's say hypothetically you're cold but you don't think your life is under threat (so far). But you're guessing people may be looking for you, as you're long due back. And the colder you get, the more at risk of hypothermia and then incapacity to operate your beacon.

Should one be setting off their PLB (Personal Locator Beacon)? On the basis that you think people are looking for you, and may be themselves at risk and looking in the wrong place to find you?

Or is setting off one's PLB going to cause more problems because it will send helicopters risking their lives to find you, and at the moment you're ok, not great but ok.

I would love advice of experienced hikers to know what to do myself if I was ever in such a situation. I realize ideally you're carefully checking the weather forecast and trying to avoid being out in a blizzard, but sometimes weather is unpredictable and can change quickly. I remember when I was in Tasmania, the weather forecast changed around quite a bit while I was about to hike and actually out hiking.

I guess it's also the benefit of something like a Garmin In Reach as opposed to a PLB, because there is the ability to send messages which are a bit more nuanced, updating someone on how you are, rather than the extreme of setting of an emergency locator. However not many people have Garmins and they're relatively new, and more expensive.

And I'm praying that the missing hiker will be found. Counting in his favour is he's reportedly an experienced hiker. Fingers and toes crossed he's ok.

[Moondog55]

It's a very good question. I know that in the past I have said I would never carry such but I just bought an ACR PLB to keep The Boss happy.
I tell Cecile that she should give me 3 full days past my expected arrival/contact date & time, and given that arrangement I think if I was 3 days late I would be in a little trouble and I should open the PLB and push the button, although with a PLB I might rethink that time frame and extend it to a full 5 days.
I have heard it said that the guys searching would rather bring out a live person than do a body recovery. If I had a badly broken leg and couldn't walk, hobble or crawl to safety I may be tempted to set one off immediately tho, if I had one with me.
I've never been in a situation where I thought I was in trouble I couldn't deal with

[ChrisJHC]

I probably wouldn’t set mine off if I was lost or temporarily delayed (eg the blizzard example).

I mainly carry mine for injuries (eg broken leg, snake bite, etc) as I’m usually solo. Plus the reduction in “worry factor” for those at home.

[wildwanderer]

For me I always have a trip plan and map with expected dates of return which i share with my emergency contacts. I brief them before hand if there there is a chance of delay (due to potential weather conditionsn on the trip etc)

I generally say if im 24 hours overdue contact SAR.

Now I have a inreach satelite msger its alot easier. If im delayed I can msg to say il be 12 hours (or 36 hours) late etc.

When Im only carrying a PLB, this is what I plan to do if delayed (but otherwise ok).

1. Attempt to get to a high point with mobile reception (if practical).
2. If im over the 24 hour overdue window and still have no mobile reception or means of communication, then set off the PLB.
My thinking is I know my emergency contact will be contacting SAR and a search will be intiated, so better the search goes straight to my location rather than wasting fuel/time and money on a search grid.

I tell Cecile that she should give me 3 full days past my expected arrival/contact date & time, and given that arrangement I think if I was 3 days late I would be in a little trouble and I should open the PLB and push the button, although with a PLB I might rethink that time frame and extend it to a full 5 days.

There have been cases where PLBs get lossed or broken during a fall. So if your waiting 3-5 days before a search is initiated.. your likely dead by the time they find you.

[Moondog55]

I tell Cecile that she should give me 3 full days past my expected arrival/contact date & time, and given that arrangement I think if I was 3 days late I would be in a little trouble and I should open the PLB and push the button, although with a PLB I might rethink that time frame and extend it to a full 5 days.

There have been cases where PLBs get lost or broken during a fall. So if your waiting 3-5 days before a search is initiated.. your likely dead by the time they find you.

Then I would say they were not in place properly, something I am working on with a strong but LW chest harness. I doubt I would die of anything in 5 days that was survivable for the first hour but if you die; you die, such things are not worth stressing about

[Son of a Beach]

2. If im over the 24 hour overdue window and still have no mobile reception or means of communication, then set off the PLB.
My thinking is I know my emergency contact will be contacting SAR and a search will be intiated, so better the search goes straight to my location rather than wasting fuel/time and money on a search grid.

I don't carry a PLB/EPIRB (but I may start doing so soon, as I'm taking my kids on more adventurous walks) so take anything I say with a grain of salt.

I still don't know if I would set of the PLB in the situation described above. If I was still on my prescribed route and uninjured and merely delayed due to, eg, river in flood or bad weather, and I have left a clear plan (including dedicated map of my intended route) with my wife, then I reckon any SAR team would find me pretty quickly anyhow. In that situation, if I heard a helicopter, I would make sure that I was clearly visible and easy to spot from the air. (And would offer them a cup of tea if they landed or winched-down nearby.) I guess this wouldn't help quite as much with a land-based search - which is more likely during extended bad weather, but they would still be likely to check the intended route first before a full-on grid-search.

If vegetation made it impossible to be easy to see from the air, then setting off the beacon would be more likely, I suppose. But most of the camp sites I use are either not in forest, or not far into forest and even some of the thick scrub-bashing routes are not without regular clear patches.

I just haven't got my head into a 'beacon mentality' ... yet.

[wildwanderer]

I tell Cecile that she should give me 3 full days past my expected arrival/contact date & time, and given that arrangement I think if I was 3 days late I would be in a little trouble and I should open the PLB and push the button, although with a PLB I might rethink that time frame and extend it to a full 5 days.

There have been cases where PLBs get lost or broken during a fall. So if your waiting 3-5 days before a search is initiated.. your likely dead by the time they find you.

Then I would say they were not in place properly, something I am working on with a strong but LW chest harness. I doubt I would die of anything in 5 days that was survivable for the first hour but if you die; you die, such things are not worth stressing about

There is something to be said for being philosophical about it Atleast one dies doing something he/she loves..

however..
Plenty of things that are survivable for the first hour or three but fatal in under 5 days... you can die of thirst, die of a snake/spider bit, be injured with internal bleeding and slowly bleed out etc etc.. all situations where had you been rescued in time, youd be around to plan another bushwalk.

Can also think of plenty of situations where the PLB gets lossed or damaged or a person gets seperated from it, or even falls in a heavily forested gully and cant get a signal.

trip and fall down a ledge while answering the call of nature a easy imagined scenario.. I almost did it on a foggy night

[michael_p]

According to https://beacons.amsa.gov.au/activation/:

a distress beacon should be activated in situations of grave and imminent danger. This equates to when you feel you are facing a life threatening situation. This is a personal decision that is different for everybody.

I think the key here is the personal decision part. If you still feel safe then no, if you feel that you are in imminent danger then yes.

[north-north-west]

This discussion has been going on in a FB page I follow. Been an interesting discussion there that has thrown up a few questions I hadn't considered before.

It depends on circumstances but generally, if I know the odds are that my emergency contact(s) has/have alerted TasPAWS/Police, I'd set it off. Once authorities are alerted to an overdue walker, especially in bad conditions, their protocol is to initiate S&R procedures. By setting off the beacon I tell them a) that I am alive and b) where I am. This minimises expense and risk for the S&R crews and provides a degree of reassurance for my contact(s).

TasPol S&R personnel always stress, whenever this question comes up, that they'd rather you set it off than have you delay and turn a bad situation into worse, or even a fatal one. Of course, this presupposes a level of sense amongst walkers so they don't call out the crews just because they're a bit tired and shagged out after a not really very long squawk.

[wildwanderer]

According to https://beacons.amsa.gov.au/activation/:

a distress beacon should be activated in situations of grave and imminent danger. This equates to when you feel you are facing a life threatening situation. This is a personal decision that is different for everybody.

I think the key here is the personal decision part. If you still feel safe then no, if you feel that you are in imminent danger then yes.

However there is a chance (actually the best outcome currently) that the bushwalker in tassie is safe, warm and half buried in a 4 season tent somewhere. He doesnt feel in imminent danger so hasnt set off his PLB. but he is costing tassie taxpayers 10s of 1000s of dollars in SAR costs while they search for him.

So in that scenario, I suggest its best to set off the PLB sooner rather than wait.

[Biggles]

I'm thinking if he has a PLB, it should have been activated long before the present, rather than rely on walking experience to improve his lot. If the search people are struggling in chest-deep snow, what is he doing — brewing up a Twinings with iced vovos in a snowdrift?? The search is doubtless costing a fortune every passing day. That Tassie environment has been described by Police as "*&%$#! appalling" (when they were out in blizzards and 1.5m deep snow). If he didn't make it to the safety and shelter of a hut (and they are searching the huts along the track), well...—

I have a rescueME PLB1/66 ch. PLB attached to the shoulder strap (facing upward) of my pack. I have managed to wiggle out of a few hairy situations without resorting to this. A PLB is not an invitation to take unacceptable risks and assume all will be rosy when that little orange button is pressed (even testing the things can send the AMSA into action if you do not advise them that it is a basic battery test). Emergency-wise, things have to be thought out rationally with a process of elimination, but if you're in the bottom of a frigid 35m gorge, with a rope the only way down and out, and you have broken your ankle or arm (or both or more!), that would be more than sufficient qualification to activate it. Mind you, the bottom of a deep gorge won't necessarily always work in the PLBs favour in getting a signal to a satellite!

PLBs often go off along the Larapinta Trail, sometimes triggered by runners who have taken a tumble and become incapacitated. Multi-day walkers seem better prepared, but not all of them!

[Son of a Beach]

Bugger. Now I want some Ice Vovos. Haven't had them for years!

[michael_p]

Bugger. Now I want some Ice Vovos. Haven't had them for years!

You'll be disappointed they are a shadow of their former selves.

[Biggles]

Bugger. Now I want some Ice Vovos. Haven't had them for years!

You'll be disappointed they are a shadow of their former selves.

Make them yourself —> https://kitchen.nine.com.au/recipes/ice ... 7ae2adc2f4
Slices or balls. Yumm-o!
Still, I like to pack a vanilla slice. Or two. Or three...

[Son of a Beach]

Cravings are reaching fever pitch now.

[Moondog55]

Setting off if you are indeed past the agreed contact date and time would probably be considered prudent, as would it be in any situation where you did think you were in danger and self rescue wasn't feasible.

[michael_p]

Missing bushwalker found: https://www.abc.net.au/news/2019-07-16/ ... e/11309124

[Petew]

That is good news. I expected it to be bad

[emma_melbourne]

Yay! And on The Age too: https://www.theage.com.au/national/vict ... 527lu.html

[Nuts]

I have a rescueME PLB1/66 ch. PLB attached to the shoulder strap (facing upward) of my pack. I have managed to wiggle out of a few hairy situations without resorting to this. A PLB is not an invitation to take unacceptable risks and assume all will be rosy when that little orange button is pressed (even testing the things can send the AMSA into action if you do not advise them that it is a basic battery test).!

I like the band/notice around the flippy cap Biggles

.. but i'm not sure of the reason behind the positioning:

You don't need it in free air or pointing skyward/ it's not tracking and will be unlikely upward in an emergency. I would also see a better alternative to keep it on your person, rather than the pack (as it's not tracking and you can loose touch with pack but not person)?

To add to the failsafe, we use these plb's and always keep them somewhere in an extra/ waterproof bag.

(anyhow, just thoughts..)

[tastrax]

I'm thinking if he has a PLB, it should have been activated long before the present, rather than rely on walking experience to improve his lot. If the search people are struggling in chest-deep snow, what is he doing — brewing up a Twinings with iced vovos in a snowdrift?? The search is doubtless costing a fortune every passing day. That Tassie environment has been described by Police as "*&%$#! appalling" (when they were out in blizzards and 1.5m deep snow). If he didn't make it to the safety and shelter of a hut (and they are searching the huts along the track), well...—

Where he was intending to walk is nowhere near the huts. Over 50% of his walk would have been off track. By all accounts he was well prepared and experienced so for me it comes back to the plan he left for his "responsible person". Someone with experience is unlikely to go off track walking in middle of winter with bare minimum rations etc. I suspect today was really the first good flying day and that's why there has been so much action, 'rescue' of other walkers and generally a good outcome.

[tastrax]

PS - something new for the gear freaks

https://blog.ja-gps.com.au/2019/07/gpsm ... -explorer/

[wildwanderer]

Missing bushwalker found: https://www.abc.net.au/news/2019-07-16/ ... e/11309124

Great news!

When asked how he was feeling, he replied: "Thank you, fine, beautiful."

what is he doing — brewing up a Twinings with iced vovos in a snowdrift??

Possibly you were closer to the truth than we thought!

[katcal]

I am sorry but I am really confused by the rational that some of you would wait three or more days to press the PLB if you were delayed past your expected return time (and your contact person hadnt been given instruction to wait as his obviously had not - fair enough if you give them a window of 24 hours).

The last three days in searching would have cost a fortune not to mention the risk to S&A have put themselves through to find him.

In a situation like this with this weather, why risk other people to wait out the storm. At least if you set off the PLB so even if they cant fly in for a day, they know where you are and that you are alive.

It just seems incredibly selfish to me.

[north-north-west]

I am sorry but I am really confused by the rational that some of you would wait three or more days to press the PLB if you were delayed past your expected return time (and your contact person hadnt been given instruction to wait as his obviously had not - fair enough if you give them a window of 24 hours).

The last three days in searching would have cost a fortune not to mention the risk to S&A have put themselves through to find him.

In a situation like this with this weather, why risk other people to wait out the storm. At least if you set off the PLB so even if they cant fly in for a day, they know where you are and that you are alive.

It just seems incredibly selfish to me.

In this case he has a valid excuse - he lost his daypack, with the PLB. But generally, I agree with you. It all depends on what instructions he left behind with regard to dates etc.

[katcal]

Ahh I hadn't read that he lost his daypack. Damn that is some bad luck but so good that he had the experience to be able to keep himself alive.

[Biggles]

It is heartening to learn he has been found safe and well after that ordeal.
Reports of him losing his pack but finding his tent -- in which he took shelter with minimal provisions, might be a little confused in the reporting somewhere, I don't know. Anyway, all's well that ends well.

[Biggles]

Missing bushwalker found: https://www.abc.net.au/news/2019-07-16/ ... e/11309124

Great news!

When asked how he was feeling, he replied: "Thank you, fine, beautiful."

what is he doing — brewing up a Twinings with iced vovos in a snowdrift??

Possibly you were closer to the truth than we thought!

[north-north-west]

Reports of him losing his pack but finding his tent -- in which he took shelter with minimal provisions, might be a little confused in the reporting somewhere,

Nope.
Lost the pack on Coal Hill in thick fog, spent the night out, then found his way back to camp the next day (by following his footprints, apparently), where he hunkered down with what supplies he had left.

[bernieq]

Some years ago, I put a senario to both AMSA and NZSAR - whether to activate a PLB if :
1. overdue on a multi-day trip, no mobile coverage, not injured or at risk
2. a responsible person with trip details was due to alert authorities to the overdue trip
Specifically, the question was : should the PLB be activated to simplify the subsequent search?

NZSAR said - Yes, activate.
AMSA said - No, not life threatening so must not activate.

That was a decade ago and protocols and attitudes do change.

However, I would judge an incident at the time, based on all of the circumstances.
Delayed because of flooding, now on track and 1 day late - no, I wouldn't activate.
Delayed because of heavy snow, high winds, could have difficulty finding route back to trailhead, likely to be 2+ days late - yes, I would activate.