Cheap and light storm shelter

[Moondog55]

Following on from the expedient snow shelter query.
I'm thinking of something like that would weigh less than a kilo all up, but that could be rigged using ski poles/skis /walking poles. Needs to be strong enough to weather an Alpine gale or storm and be large enough to allow a pot of brew to be heated up
Room for a big bivvy bag inside.
main need is that it be light enough to always have packed and with me and of course minimum packed bulk and as this would be a "Lightest possible" design using the minimum material needed to do the job perhaps I could look at using cuben
For some obscure reason I was thinking that having a floor in the back half would be a good idea; especially if pitched with the back into the wind.
Throw some ideas about sizes my way and integrating a silnylon floor with a cuben top half
Initial thoughts are 2500 long and about 850/900 wide tapering to 450 /500 at the foot

Something perhaps like the front half of a Betamid but tapering back to the ground at the rear?

[Giddy_up]

What about a solo mid from Mountain Laurel Designs, MD. Fits the measurements and weighs 300gms and sets up with your ski pole and costs $195 + freight.

http://www.mountainlaureldesigns.com/sh ... cts_id=137

[Moondog55]

I really do not like the way some 'mids lift above the ground to let the wind get under and this design is like a lot of them in that regard. It is the big failing of my Megamid.
I think collectively we could design better that I could make for $50-$90- as my labour is free

[neilmny]

Sorry off topic a bit again, but I keep seeing reference to a "mid" I've seen what a mid looks like but what is a mid as compared to a tent?

[Moondog55]

Pyramid
A square based tarp shelter usually with a single centre pole. Typically we use some jargon to save typing the full 7 letters

[Giddy_up]

Like all 'mids' though MD, you can screw them to the ground if need be for 24-36 hours???

[Moondog55]

I'm thinking asymmetric 'mid about 1200 high at the apex, 900-> 600 * 2500. No central pole because you should have the skis to use as a bipod pole. Sort of a half floored arrangement so the wind can't get under it

[Strider]

I'm thinking asymmetric 'mid about 1200 high at the apex, 900-> 600 * 2500. No central pole because you should have the skis to use as a bipod pole. Sort of a half floored arrangement so the wind can't get under it

Mesh floor with solid edges, perhaps?

[Moondog55]

Would that save much weight?
I was thinking more floored at the rear and no floor in the larger front half, after all any-one like myself usually carries a bivvy or water resistant SB cover when touring. As much for pitching ease and strength

[Bluegum Mic]

What about the msr twin sister

[Moondog55]

What about the msr twin sister

In a single pole version and much smaller yes, a group or duo shelter I would still pick a decent sized LW 'mid
But DIY not purchased

[Moondog55]

I've been looking at the Tarp-Tent Contrail.
How easy a design is it to clone if I wanted to use a sewed in groundsheet I'm wondering. And how strong would it be in UL silnylon, probably a question for Franco to answer, but for what I want and need the netting is useless and contra-indicated

[Franco]

The Contrail design is not a good choice for snow use.
Too much unsupported area between the pole and the rear struts.
An A frame version works better IF using really strong poles so that you can put a lot of tension on them.
After all Mallory had A frame tents on Everest but with very beefy poles (mind you they still sagged...)
The Notch on the other hand works well but does not sound like the shelter you are after.
I would keep any mesh well away from snow because when it freezes on it you will rip it.
Our silnylon (30D) does work well on snow however it depends of course on the tent geometry.

[Moondog55]

Hi Franco While would agree, I want an emergency shelter not something to live in; therefore I was looking at designs that have minimal weight due to paring everything back to the absolute minimum. Skis as A-poles are very strong so I don't think that's a consideration for this use.
I used to have a small green japara scout tent with a similar shape and while it was tight it was surprisingly storm proof

[Franco]

You could have a look at the plans of the original "Tarptent" to get an idea of size and required material
http://www.tarptent.com/projects/tarpdesign.html

BTW, our silnylon comes from Westmark , called Ultrasil but I think only sold in rolls.
(not all silnylon is the same...)
Don't get the PU coated version, you lose a lot of tensile strength that way.

[Moondog55]

Well after loosing my way and having to spend my night in the hut I no longer think I'm fit and tough enough to survive a winters night in just the bivvy sack so I really need to do something about a solo survival shelter as light and with as small packed bulk as possible; even if it means using Cuben and spending the extra money.
If I use my skis and/or ski poles then supporting strength won't be an issue. I ski on skis ranging from 185 to 200cm long normally. I'm 186 tall and take an XL in jackets so I need to have room for my sleeping bag and mat with space to brew up out of the wind. I do think being able to make a hot cuppa is essential.

So please consider the new title to be "Strong & Light storm shelter"

Just had a thought so editing to add something

I just remembered that I have been given some soft Tyvek, would the Tyvek be strong enough [ and at the same time light enough] to make a storm proof shelter, it works well as a sleeping bag cover and is reasonably tough

[Strider]

S2S Specialist? There is a member here who recently posted they were unhappy with theirs for their intended usage...

[Moondog55]

Similar in overall shape perhaps but with no floor in the front section, Not intending to use this as a tent, simply for storm protection [ wind and driven snow/rain] and stronger than the S2S poncho I had in my pack.
Just been talking to Simon from Tiergear and between us all we should be able to work something out.
Perhaps using the Cuben for the roof and Tyvek for the walls and a small section of Cuben for the half floor, joining with tape for maximum ease / strength

[Moondog55]

We did start a very similar discussion last year on the old Karrimor Marathon tent and going though my stash I have three very strong CF arrow shafts of which 750mm is usable.
I wish I could draw as I have a picture in my head of a shelter combining the best of the Tarp Tent with the head room of the Marathon

[Moondog55]

Has any-one tried using ordinary brown wrapping paper to make quick patterns for cutting fabric??

http://www.officeworks.com.au/shop/offi ... per%20roll

Much cheaper than cotton

[simonm]

My initial tests suggests the Venture tape forms a strong bond between Cuben and Tyvek so the tapeing only may work, if you want to avoid sewing. I will know more tomorrow though when I can put it through some more vigorous testing. I don't know how lightweight Cuben and Tyvek would stand up to a severe storm though as I have not used either of them in that fashion, and it would depend a lot on the design.

I can't see why that paper wouldn't work for patterns, I may try it as well.

[Moondog55]

I've never weighed it. How heavy is the Tyvek??
I'm now thinking Tyvek sides and flattish Cuben top/front panel; trying to maximise strength while minimising cost sort of idea

[simonm]

I tested the join of the Tyvek to Cuben using Venture Tape 1163 and the Tyvek ripped before the adhesive even looked like moving. So I would say if you were to use Tyvek it would be the weak link.

The Tyvek is listed as 1.25oz per square yard or 42gsm

[simonm]

I know money is tight so the other cheaper option is I have some lightweight Argon silnylon for my own use it weighs 1.06oz per sq yard or 36 gsm it's about a quarter of the price of Cuben, and cheaper than the Tyvek.

[DanShell]

Has any-one tried using ordinary brown wrapping paper to make quick patterns for cutting fabric??

http://www.officeworks.com.au/shop/offi ... per%20roll

Much cheaper than cotton

Yes I have, well not office works paper but paper from my work

Im not 100% sure of the gsm of the paper I used, it was a bit stiff but worked fine.

[Moondog55]

I already have the Tyvek tho, so a cost saving there already. I'm thinking I could use a single meter of the Cuben cut to a third width [ 135/3= 45cm] with Tyvek walls and floor and get some extra Cuben for reinforcing. Acknowledged that the Tyvek is heavier but I'll save on the weight of the Goretex bivvy sack so I have a kilo to play with.
Hopefully the majority of the stresses would be placed on the very strong join.

Some rough and quick drawings of the proposal, Yes it looks like a coffinn

[simonm]

A good looking coffin though. Emergency shelter and coffin are probably two words you do not want to be associated.

[Moondog55]

Can you see how the long rectangular roof panel would work in Cuben with the triangular side panels being Tyvek?
Trying to get the tautness needed by placing the stress on the longitudinal seams I can see it needing 6 pegs tho, so there's a few dollars in Titanium nails

[simonm]

I am not a tent expert so I will leave comments about the design to others with more experience, but it looks good to me.

[Franco]

Those ends look a bit narrow to me to allow space for a 6' mat with a winter sleeping bag on top, but it is close enough to the Tarptent Sublite in design, so take a look at that .