Bushwalk Australia

I'm looking for a one person ULW tent....does anyone have one they're looking to sell..?

HI

I have a Terra Nova Laser Competition 1 I no longer use. Its in very good condition, all struts, poles, stuff sacks and the pins as pegs it came with. Solid inner with mesh screens/door. I also have the footprint(inner floor size) and a tyvek full footprint .

Its light, integral pitch and only used a few times, a week through the Tarkine, long weekend Pine Valley and a few nights to/from Frenchmans Cap. I'd let it go for, say $150 pp?

PM if interested

Just a note re the Terra Nova LC1 - it is sold, pending organisation of postage etc.

But not to oldmanwalking - he is still looking I believe.

Cheers

Gaye

Presume you looked at the tents in this section before you posted oldmanwalking but if not here's a link to the Easton Kilo tent I'm selling via this forum, it's a small 2 person tent but I always used it as a 1 person

http://www.bushwalk.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=13&t=25235

Hi beachcruiser

Thanks for the info and the link.....am looking for one person tent really, though I take your point about there not being that much difference between one and two person with the Easton.....as with many others too.

Am now looking at the Nordisk Telemark1 ULW.....but still need to do some research *&%$#! to its suitability given its extremely light weight......but thanks again.

Interesting oldmanwalking, I thought I'd done a lot of research into lightweight tents but I've never come across that brand Nordisk before, so many small brands out there.

If you are looking at the lightest possible shelter take a look at Z-packs, something like their Solplex is only 440gms (you need to add poles if you don't use trekking poles and pegs but it would still come in under 600gms)
http://zpacks.com/shelter/solplex.shtml
I bought a Z-Packs Duplex to replace the Easton Kilo I'm selling, haven't used it yet but pitched it in the backyard when it arrived and it looks awesome.

Anyway lots more topics about lightweight tents over in the Equipment section of this forum, I'm sure you've already looked there

Doubtless you've had a look at the Nordisk website by now, what do you think, especially the new Lofoten range which I think are just amazing in both weight and size.

I've been trying for some time now to convince Nordisk to venture into the Aus-NZ market as I think there's great potential here. They are considering the idea and have just opened up in Japan, so who knows, we may just see their gear, and not just tents here one day soon.

I've looked at the Z-Packs range and whilst I am impressed I am still a tad skeptical about the overall durability of Cuben Fibre .

Again thanks for the info.

Wow, yes those Loften tents are incredibly light!

If you are worried about the durability of Cuben Fibre I'm not sure 7D Sil Nylon (Loften) or 10D Sil Nylon (Telemark) would be any more durable they will be very thin fabrics and Sil Nylons tend to stretch when they get wet meaning you have to re-peg your tent to keep it taut whereas Cuben Fibre doesn't stretch so that is one of the things I am looking forward to with my new tent.

Much has been said about the benefits of Cuben fibre but there are still some who suggest that its drawbacks are its fragility, so taking everything into account I'm prepared to sacrifice the odd ounce or three and the effort of maybe re-pegging in the pissing rain for the perhaps misguided security of silnylon and the Telemark1 ULW. Time will tell if mistakes were made I guess.

Enjoy your new tent wherever you end up pitching it.

Cuben fibre was invented primarily for sails on America's Cup yachts. If there is an issue with fragility it is more likely due to insufficient fabric weight than an inherent issue with the material itself.

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Hi Strider

I understand the many advantages of Cuben Fibre, however it is perhaps a mistake to simply try and compere it with silny as there are many variations of cuben available, but my point with regards fragility is primarily to do with the use for which I intend for it.....that being a 6 month trek....and the known drawback of cuben being its susceptibility to abrasion......compered with silny. Hence it is perhaps fair to suggest that this is in fact an inherent issue of the fabric itself.

A tent is the piece of gear that gets the least amount of abrasion perhaps apart from your quilt/sleeping bag. The floor is the main issue and I have had a sil-nylon floor abraid far faster than 1 oz cuben which is what Zpacks and several others use. For the tent canopy 0.51 oz cuben has worked for me and many manufacturers also use the 0.74 oz version..

oldmanwalking wrote:Hi Strider

I understand the many advantages of Cuben Fibre, however it is perhaps a mistake to simply try and compere it with silny as there are many variations of cuben available, but my point with regards fragility is primarily to do with the use for which I intend for it.....that being a 6 month trek....and the known drawback of cuben being its susceptibility to abrasion......compered with silny. Hence it is perhaps fair to suggest that this is in fact an inherent issue of the fabric itself.

It's more durable than you think, especially .74oz and up, but it also takes tape easily, so having some cuben tape (which you can buy from zpacks) on hand means any abrasion damage (on the off chance you get it... never been an issue for me) can be readily fixed.

Hi people

Thanks for all the info and advice, much appreciated......however I think I'll stick to silny for now as I feel it suits my needs best.

Thanks again.

I've had a Z packs hexamid twin for 4 yrs, which I use as a single person tent, the last time on a 10 day trip up a backcountry NZ river flyfishing . It has plenty of room. One rainy night I had water run in under the fly onto the groundsheet ( =wet sleeping bag to a degree more than I was comfortable with - fortunately next day was sunny, so it dried off) which could have been prevented by pitching it lower to the ground, and setting groundsheet better. I've set it up on Bogong in high winds - it stayed erect, but, again, probably related to pitching, it sat a bit high, and just didn't provide the protection I would have liked it it had pissed with rain...I would have got wet again, and, in lowering it to provide that protection, there would not have been enough headroom for me.

I like the tent, but I use it for specific situations, and you need to know how to pitch it properly to prevent groundsheet overflows in rain.

I also have a Terra Rosa Laser Competition 1 which I bought second hand last year, but have not used yet. It offers more protection, but also seems to suffer from condensation issues, so I'm going to modify mine with zips on the ends, and try it out this winter on Bogong.

What about a tarp,and bivy bag?

A

oldmanwalking wrote:Doubtless you've had a look at the Nordisk website by now, what do you think, especially the new Lofoten range which I think are just amazing in both weight and size.

I've been trying for some time now to convince Nordisk to venture into the Aus-NZ market as I think there's great potential here. They are considering the idea and have just opened up in Japan, so who knows, we may just see their gear, and not just tents here one day soon.

I've looked at the Z-Packs range and whilst I am impressed I am still a tad skeptical about the overall durability of Cuben Fibre .

Again thanks for the info.

Nothing to be skeptical about with cuben fiber as long as you understand it's disposable, Mountain Laurel Designs rates their cuben shelters at about 200-250 uses, where as Silnylon will last more then double that.

jimmeyer176 wrote:

oldmanwalking wrote:Doubtless you've had a look at the Nordisk website by now, what do you think, especially the new Lofoten range which I think are just amazing in both weight and size.

I've been trying for some time now to convince Nordisk to venture into the Aus-NZ market as I think there's great potential here. They are considering the idea and have just opened up in Japan, so who knows, we may just see their gear, and not just tents here one day soon.

I've looked at the Z-Packs range and whilst I am impressed I am still a tad skeptical about the overall durability of Cuben Fibre .

Again thanks for the info.

Nothing to be skeptical about with cuben fiber as long as you understand it's disposable, Mountain Laurel Designs rates their cuben shelters at about 200-250 uses, where as Silnylon will last more then double that.

Where did you get this number of uses from? There's nothing on the MLD website that mentions this (that I can see). All that is mentioned on their Fabric Mojo page is that they use .5oz cuben for lighter tarps and that it has a shorter lifespan than the heavier versions of cuben.

I read it on an online forum from a source I trusted or I wouldn't have shared it, perhaps my wording is in poor form as it's a not a direct quote from Ron or MLD, however everyone the industry knows that cuben has a short life, even zpacks says their shelters are only guaranteed for a single 2500 mile hike, that's less then 250 nights use. Tarptent won't use it for this reason. Cuben has half the life of quality silnylon (on average), email MLD and I'm sure they'll verify this.

Sorry that was a bad post and misleading, however I stand behind the data, I think you'll find it robust upon further investigation (that silnylon has twice the life of cuben)

jimmeyer176 wrote:I read it on an online forum from a source I trusted or I wouldn't have shared it, perhaps my wording is in poor form as it's a not a direct quote from Ron or MLD, however everyone the industry knows that cuben has a short life, even zpacks says their shelters are only guaranteed for a single 2500 mile hike, that's less then 250 nights use. Tarptent won't use it for this reason. Cuben has half the life of quality silnylon (on average), email MLD and I'm sure they'll verify this.

Sorry Jim - I don't want to be snarky but I would be much happier to consider your claims about cuben if they came from your personal experience rather than from a web post by someone you don't identify. My car only has a warranty for 2 years but hopefully it will last possibly 10 times that. Same with most gear. MDL has an enviable reputation for quality gear along with ZPacks and several others and I am sure that they would not be making shelters in cuben if they thought they were going to disintegrate in a couple of years. I have used two shelters, one 0.51 oz cuben and the other 0.74oz, for the last seven years and each would have well over 150 nights use and I see no evidence of them disintegrating or even much wear. No holes or rips apart from a small hole in the netting on one of them. Comparing this to the two sil-nylon tents I have which have seen somewhat less use I expect my cuben tents will outlast the sil-nylon ones.

Whats your personal experience?

Edit: Both cuben and sil-nylon have a place in the market. Cuben is ideal for ultralight shelters that use planar geometry which benefit from the lack of stretch in the fabric. Sil-nylon is better for tents with complex and often curved geometry due to the fabric stretch allowing the shape to distort a little to accommodate uneven ground etc.

jimmeyer176 wrote:Tarptent won't use it for this reason.

Franco, can you confirm?

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Maybe Franco can elaborate more, but this is from the TarpTent website (https://www.tarptent.com/faq.html):

We don’t make cuben fiber products due to the extreme fabric expense, problems with seam taping and poor abrasion resistance. Not only is cuben fiber nearly 5x the price of the fabric we use now, but cuben fiber seams behave poorly under stress and must be seam taped. That’s not too hard for simple shelters with straight seams but very labor intensive for more complex shelters with curved seams such as the Double Rainbow (and many more). Our prices would likely triple for curved shelters, an outcome which would violate everything we strive for in making affordable shelters. Finally, weight wise, using cuben fiber would mean a typical weight reduction of 4-6 ounces ( ~150g, a gulp of water or perhaps 3 candy bars) and we would argue that no one can notice that kind of weight difference in a loaded pack.

While it seems that durability is a small factor into why they don't use cuben it looks like the affordability and ease of manufacturing issues are a bigger issue with the material for TarpTent.

1. I acknowledged and apologised for a misleading post.

2. I'm sorry I don't recall the source of the information I posted. Do you document everything you read online?

3. Whether or not you believe me is your issue, not mine. I have a great shelter.

4. No one ever said Cuben disintegrated in a couple of years (where did that come from?), what I said was that cuben had half the life of quality silnylon, and it wore not from 'age' but from use (I'll define use as stress, tension, UV damage, abrasion). Yes, I've seen cuben after 300 nights, it's not the same as after 50 nights. But sure people do 500-600 nights, doesn't mean it's a good idea or recommended.

5. I read an article with Henry Shires once saying he didn't like cuben for a number of reasons, I recall the key reasons being inability to stretch and more importantly durability (no I don't have that article link for you). Cost is a no brainer and really shouldn't need to be mentioned in my view, it's seems fairly obvious no?

6. I love MLD and have used three shelters by them, one in Spinnaker and two in Silnylon, yes they make great stuff. My currently shelter is a MLD and I would highly recommend them over any cottage company in the world.

7. Again, I would contact Joe @ Zpacks and Ron @ MLD with your questions on cuben so you can make an informed decision.

Directly from Zpacks...

http://zpacks.com/shelter/duplex.shtml

"The expected life span of this shelter is at least one full 2500+ mile thru hike, or many years of casual use with some care."

Most long-distance hikers I know hike 100-150 miles a week on average (160-240 kilometres), I'm sure you can do the math on expected nights of use.

Any more questions?

1. No questions, just a rebuttal as your acknowledged misleading post doesn't actually acknowledge that it was misleading as you say "I stand behind the data".

2. No I don't document what I read on line but usually will I document information I use to make an argument for my position on a topic.

3. I am glad you have a great shelter and I am very happy with mine both cuben and sil-nylon but don't disparage a well respected material that has been in use for almost 10 years of which you appear to have little direct experience. If cuben was "disposable" then I expect the web would be full of horror stories but I have seen almost none.

4. Perhaps I used the wrong word in "disintegrate" but you claim cuben is "disposable". Usually disposable means that is used a few times and then put out with the rubbish. On the basis of your statements (50 or 300 to 600 nights) any light weight tent is disposable - nylon or cuben. How long do you expect your shelter to last as this seems to be the basis of your argument?

A heads up - cuben is more UV resistant than nylon. Polyester is also better than nylon.

5. Whitefang seems to have found what you couldn't. I have also read Henry's views. As I commented In my edit of my earlier post that both materials have a place. Key to this is choosing the material that provides the appropriate qualities for the intended design and market. That's why MDL makes many products in both cuben and sil-nylon.

6. I agree that MDL make great products and have owned a couple myself.

7. Why keep directing people to contact Ron or Joe with questions? I don't have any questions other than trying to understand your argument that cuben is not a satisfactory material for lightweight shelters. This is not my own experience of the material.

Yes, I believe Cuben performs best up to 200-250 uses and 'quality' silnylon approximately double that. This is based on the experience of people I've hiked hundreds of miles with, online reviews, hearsay, interviews, online forums and quotes from manufacturers (see above).. Feel free to ignore this view.

To be clear, I never said Cuben wasn't a good material, I simply said it was disposable and had half the life of quality silnylon. All ultralight gear has a shorter life compared to the heavier gear of say the late 90's, so yes, I agree all gear is disposable to some degree.

I also never said Cuben would perform well at 600 nights, I said I'm sure it's been done. The Zpacks quote reinforces my point that cuben has a short life comparably speaking. They ONLY use Cuben and they're basically saying the 'life' of the product is around 2500 miles, or on average around 165-250 nights of use, (assuming a hiker averages 10-15 miles a day)

I'll give you the last word as I have a feeling you need it, happy trails

I found the source you questioned Mark so hopefully this will put this to rest for you, so just to be clear...
- I said cuben works best for 200-250 nights
- Zpacks says approximately 2500 miles (translates to 165-250 uses based on 10-15 miles per day)
- MLD says approximately 250 'thru-hiker' uses

"The performance of Cuben will degrade over time due to use, UV exposure, repeated folding, and wet storage. But the lifespan is still excellent. Ron Bell at MLD estimates the functional lifespan of his shelters made with .75 oz/yd2 at around 250 “thru-hiker nights,” which assumes intense use and occasional wet storage. This is comparable to or in excess of standard coated nylons, which Ron puts at 300 to 500 nights depending on the quality." - Andrew Skurka

http://andrewskurka.com/2017/cuben-fibe ... -the-cost/

jimmeyer176 wrote:This is comparable to or in excess of standard coated nylons

This says it all.

250 as against the upper end of 300 to 500 nights is not comparable, much less 'in excess of'. Even 300 to 250 is a 20% improvement.

My beef was the use of the word "disposable" to disparage a material that has shown to be robust, with a long useful life. On an individual basis a cuben shelter may or may not outlast a sil-nylon shelter but quoting the low ball usage estimates for cuben against high ball estimates for sil-nylon is not a valid comparison. I would argue that there is value in both materials depending on the shelter design and importance of weight to the user. Many users are unlikely to wear out a shelter in either material after ten years of their relatively low usage.