Going Lighter

A place to chat about gear and the philosphy of ultralight. Ultralight bushwalking or backpacking focuses on carrying the lightest and simplest kit. There is still a good focus on safety and skill.
Forum rules
Ultralight Bushwalking/backpacking is about more than just gear lists. Ultralight walkers carefully consider gear based on the environment they are entering, the weather forecast, their own skill, other people in the group. Gear and systems are tested and tweaked.
If you are new to this area then welcome - Please remember that although the same ultralight philosophy can be used in all environments that the specific gear and skill required will vary greatly. It is very dangerous to assume that you can just copy someone else's gear list, but you are encouraged to ask questions, learn and start reducing the pack weight and enjoying the freedom that comes.

Common words
Base pack backpacking the mass of the backpack and the gear inside - not including consumables such as food, water and fuel
light backpacking base weight less than 9.1kg
ultralight backpacking base weight less than 4.5kg
super-ultralight backpacking base weight less than 2.3kg
extreme-ultralight backpacking base weight less than 1.4kg

Going Lighter

Postby RasAlt3 » Mon 27 Feb, 2017 3:26 pm

Hi, been looking at this forum for a bit, but only just registered, looks like there are lots of experienced people on here who can give good advice!

I just returned from doing the Te Araroa Trail in the North Island of NZ, from Cape Reinga to Wellington. This trip made me realise the benefits of having a lighter pack, and now I'm back in AUS I'm keen to invest in some lighter major items. The main two I am looking at right now are tent and backpack.

Tent: I am looking for a lightweight one person tent, which will still hold up in fairly bad weather. I'm liking the look of the Tarptent Moment DW, it seems like a good blend of lightweight and weather resistance, at a fair price. My only question is: the Hilleberg Enan looks like a very similar design, however it has poorer ventilation, is slightly heavier and more expensive. Is there a significant quality difference between these two tents? Or are you simply paying for the name in the Hilleberg? Are there better options out there than the Tarptent Moment DW?

Backpack: I want a pack that is quite lightweight, and carries light to medium loads comfortably. My previous pack was the Tatonka Bison 75, which weighs 3kg, and designed to carry 25+kg, so basically overkill for everything but the heaviest of loads. I intend to keep it for long expeditions, but want to get something lighter for weekend trips. The pack that a lot of online sources seem to say is the best is the Gossamer Gear Gorilla. The problem I see is that there is no way of trying it on before buying. Does anyone have experience with this pack? Is it really the best lightweight pack, or are there better options? I live in Sydney, so I could just try walking down Kent St (the street with all the outdoor stores) and look for a pack until I find one I like. Is it better to try a limited variety of packs available in stores, or buy a pack based on online reviews?

Any experiences or opinions would be greatly appreciated!

Thanks a lot,

Rasmus
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Re: Going Lighter

Postby whitefang » Mon 27 Feb, 2017 4:56 pm

For tent if you have the cash invest in something from zpacks. If you don't then my suggestion is either the tarptent Notch or Protrail. Both around the 700 - 800g mark.

If you want to try on a pack first look at the Osprey Exos range. You can buy them here in aus. Otherwise, stuff from Gossamer Gear, ULA, zpacks are all pretty highly regarded packs.

EDIT: I should also mention that before you get a lighter pack you might want to lighten the rest of your load. There's no point going for a lightweight pack if you still have a heavy baseweight. An exos' comfort rating is around 15kg and the same pretty much goes for all the packs in that weight range.
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Re: Going Lighter

Postby wayno » Mon 27 Feb, 2017 6:35 pm

zpaks tents will struggle in the worst of nz weather, there's hundred mile an hour winds here this summer and the TA walkers are only coping by making for the huts when the storms come in in exposed places. and cuben is very noisey in heavy rain...
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Re: Going Lighter

Postby madmacca » Mon 27 Feb, 2017 9:00 pm

I agree with Whitefang - while as one of the major items you carry, a pack can seem a tempting target when trying to go ultralight, your pack should be one of the last purchases you make. Many lightweight packs can be uncomfortable when carrying a heavy load, so until you have lightened the rest of your gear, defer the pack purchase.

And this doesn't necessarily mean spending a lot of money - a lot of going lighter is just about eliminating redundancy, making gear do double duty (my phone is also my backup compass and backup torch), or finding cheap and light solutions (eg. an empty soft drink bottle is far lighter than most purpose built hiking bottles, and pretty much free).
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Re: Going Lighter

Postby norts » Mon 27 Feb, 2017 10:38 pm

I own the Hilleberg Akto and the Tarptent Moment DW.
I used the Akto on the Appalachian Trail and the Moment on the Pacific Crest Trail.
If the weather is really bad then I would rather be in the Akto, ie I use it mostly in Tassie.
The Moment will do for most situations though and if you are thru hiking ie setting up a tent for 150 days in a row then i would prefer the Moment as it is alot quicker to set up. It also has better ventilation for warmer weather.
Packs, I used Exped Lightning60 on the AT and the ULA Catalyst on the PCT I wouldnt want to use either in scrub or rock scrambling in Tassie, I use a Macpac Ravine. My mate uses a Hyperlite Mountain Gear cuben fibre pack here in Tassie , it stands up to scrub well but doesnt handle abrasive rocks well.

Also be aware with alot of US packs they rely on being able to put things in outside pockets or mesh panels, to get up to the stated load carrying capacity, these pockets etc are not very robust.
A pack I saw alot of on the PCT was the Osprey Exos either the 48 or 58. which you can usually find in Australia and will be able to try on.

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Re: Going Lighter

Postby damoprz » Tue 28 Feb, 2017 10:03 am

Agree that you need to buy your backpack last. Get a light tent (like the TT), matt (neoairs are unbeatable) and quilt (check out mike or tier gear in aus, cumulous or EE overseas). Also look at trimming a bit of weight and volume from your coming gear and clothing.

Once you've done that figure out how big a pack you need. Decide if you want a frameless before buying. I have a ULA ohm which isn't quite tough enough for Australian conditions. Probably getting a HMG southwest 2400 or a custom KS ultralight 40L pack in a tougher fabric.
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Re: Going Lighter

Postby PedroArvy » Tue 28 Feb, 2017 11:08 am

Lighter gear is always more fragile, it doesn't last as long but this doesn't mean it is poor quality.
Packs - Aarn are the best (done 'em all, ultra lightweight to standard) but not the lightest. However, they feel lighter because of the balance system they employ.
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Re: Going Lighter

Postby rcaffin » Tue 28 Feb, 2017 4:50 pm

Packs - Aarn are the best
IF and only IF they suit you.
I was sent one for review, but I found it most unsatisfactory in the field.
Cheers
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Re: Going Lighter

Postby davidf » Tue 28 Feb, 2017 5:13 pm

HMG Porter. Best pack since I bought my Lowe Triolet 34 years ago. Light, waterproof, comfortable at 20kg. as mentiond above its backside is a weakness on rocks. You can and I would recomend ordering the extra bottom. I got no pockets. I am now thinking of getting a rear mesh. not cheap but very happy.
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Re: Going Lighter

Postby alanoutgear » Thu 02 Mar, 2017 5:07 pm

I decided to go lighter and bought a light 70 litre Osprey pack, replaced my Mont sleeping bag, my Exped downmat, my Mont Hydronaute long bushwalking jacket, and my Optimus Nova stove. Second day out tore a hole in the bottom of the pack climbing over some eroded limestone on the GOW. My One Planet pack would have laughed at it. I think lighter means flimsier in most cases. I really now think it's false economy to go lighter (and flimsier) with critical gear like your pack and tent.

I have just got back from my first lighter walk. New S2S quilt - tick. S2S comfort lite mat - tick. eVent short rain jacket - tick. Fire Maple Ti stove - tick. Need to get lighter than my Hubba Hubba and seriously thinking of a one person tent which I've never done before because I like the space when the weather turns to poo..., but being north of 65 now, I'm thinking the kilo saved is more important.
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Re: Going Lighter

Postby damoprz » Thu 02 Mar, 2017 8:10 pm

Light weight gear requires a bit more care, but I walk further with less fatigue. And my wife actually enjoys the walk now. Easily worth the trade off.
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Re: Going Lighter

Postby biggbird » Fri 03 Mar, 2017 8:22 pm

This is something I am considering/about to do too. I have recently moved to QLD from Tassie, and am planning on spending up to 9 months overseas walking next year. Tassie seems to have consistently different gear requirements compared to pretty much anywhere else in the world, given the density of the scrub, propensity for difficult off track walking etc. That's not to say that you can't go walking with lighter weight stuff, and plenty do, but the level of experience, care and skill is going to have to be significantly higher. For some people, that's worth it.

However, looking at the conditions in places like South America, the US, India, Nepal etc where I'll be walking next year, a lightweight or ultralight approach appears much more likely to be safe and doable. This is not to say that the walking there is not hard, or that the conditions are not tough, but just that terrain, and especially local botany appear to be more lightweight friendly.

I currently walk with a One Planet pack, which weighs ~3kg. I have a few tents, the lightest of which is my Tarptent Scarp 2 at ~1.8kg. I typically tend to wear a Mont Tempest raincoat, which in XXL comes in at pretty close to 1kg. A typical weight for a week-long walk would be around 25kg I would think, including food. This setup has definitely worked for me in Tassie, and I expect that when walking in Tassie I'll continue to use a similar setup because it is what I consider practical and safe. Everybody's opinion on this will vary, and I'm sure there are some ULers out there who would scoff at me. I bet most of them don't walk off-track in Tassie.

Regarding your comments Wayno, I don't think that there are many tents which will cope with 100MPH winds... I've been in some serious wind on the Western Arthurs in my Nallo, and whilst it did stay up, I didn't sleep much, what with the tent being pushed just about flat every time a big gust came through. Having said that, I agree with what you're getting at, and think people need to be sensible with their gear choices, and adaptable to different conditions. One method will not work for all places. It seems that if you wanted an UL shelter for serious weather, pyramids have the best rep, but I just can't get over the idea of having a pole in the middle of my sleeping area.

Having said that, I'm looking forward to going lighter next year, and hopefully being able to cover more ground/feel less sore at the end of the day. I'm in the process of doing research on various bits and pieces of gear, but seem to have settled on quite a bit of Zpacks gear. It seems to fit in the right niche for me - extremely light, but still very functional and well made. I'm planning on buying a Zpacks Triplex, an Arc Haul backpack and probably a Challenger raincoat. The Arc Haul is rated to comfortably carry loads of around 18kg, which is a few kg more than its slightly lighter compatriot, the Arc Blast. It's also made of supposedly slightly more durable Dyneema/ripstop hybrid material. The Triplex seems to get great reviews from all who have used it, and what sparse data I can find suggests it does passably well in bad weather. It clearly won't be as secure as my Hilleberg Staika, but that's the trade-off for lightweight. And besides, I think there are probably houses which are less secure than the Staika!

Along with this, I'm looking at some new down gear from PHD in the UK, though predominantly for my partner, who gets very cold! 1000FP down and the best shell materials make for what seem to be seriously warm, seriously lightweight bits of gear. At a very serious price too! :?

None of this will be cheap, but that is the trade-off for getting the best gear I guess, and especially so when being a weight weenie. I imagine that I will still be able to use this a bit on some Tassie walks too, particularly places which are better tracked/more frequented (OLT, WOJ, Frenchmans etc), meaning I'll reduce my cost per usage, making me feel better. I'm sure that learning to take more care with my gear, as well as tent placement and other considerations, will also increase my confidence with using my gear in general, which is an added plus. Overall, I expect it to be an interesting experience, and am just hoping it doesn't go pear-shaped in the middle of some South American range!
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Re: Going Lighter

Postby biggbird » Fri 03 Mar, 2017 8:43 pm

Also, for what it's worth, the Zpacks Duplex seems to have a great reputation as a solo shelter, though it is nominally a 2 person. You would have to decide whether or not it suits your needs, and whether or not it is worth the price (not cheap!).
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Re: Going Lighter

Postby damoprz » Sat 04 Mar, 2017 12:22 am

Do the challenger rain coats still delaminate?
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Re: Going Lighter

Postby GBW » Sat 04 Mar, 2017 4:26 am

I'm taking a similar path to bigbird...ZPacks Arc Haul (Dyneema) + Triplex + new bag sleeping bag(s) (for two). It is expensive stuff but I'm hoping it will last several years and reduce our weights considerably...I estimate 7-8kg between the two of us. While I like the added security of a 4 season tent it doesn't seem logical to be carting that weight around in the summer months like I have been. We're doing the Larapinta in June/July and I'm looking forward to the new approach...hopefully it's for the better.
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Re: Going Lighter

Postby biggbird » Sat 04 Mar, 2017 11:20 am

damoprz wrote:Do the challenger rain coats still delaminate?


I had read those reports, but I think they were an earlier version with a slightly different fabric composition. I could be wrong though!

GBW, if you haven't bought your Triplex yet, they're currently on Massdrop at a small discount. I've finally bit the bullet and ordered one! 0.74oz spruce, will now look at getting some adjustable poles from Ruta Locura, and probably some MSR Groundhogs. I also like the idea of adding extra guys to the loops which are intended for using to roll up the doors. It all means it will be a bit heavier than it could be, but hopefully will be more stable with wind, and still a very significant weight saving over my other tents. I guess we'll see!
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Re: Going Lighter

Postby GBW » Sat 04 Mar, 2017 11:53 am

Same biggbird...I'm going the heavier spruce and will add some extra guys. I saw them on massdrop but I'm also getting two packs and assorted pockets so shipping may work out about the same. I'm hoping the extra size of the Triplex will help with condensation issues but it's all new to me so time will tell.
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Re: Going Lighter

Postby warnesy » Sat 04 Mar, 2017 3:16 pm

Gone through the same process. Just got my duplex in spruce, gossamer gear Mariposa, mikes quilt and a seas to summit mat. I just can't come at the ultralight cooking set up with what I like to eat in the bush!


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Re: Going Lighter

Postby Eric » Sat 24 Mar, 2018 4:26 pm

Does anyone know if you can buy or try HMG packs in Australia?
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Re: Going Lighter

Postby Lamont » Sat 24 Mar, 2018 4:51 pm

Not UL pack but closeish(?)- EXOS 38/48 -58 would be huge (if that shape suits and yes, the ventilation is superb) -you can try them on here in Aus. and buy for much cheaper on Webtogs perhaps.
Or Osprey Talon 44 (which I just bought for Winter loadout, it carries my 12 kgs 3-5 day Winter load very well) I really like this rucksack-the new one was $150 from webtogs arrived in 4 days.
These are one kg sacks though-not UL-but if they suit...
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Re: Going Lighter

Postby wildwanderer » Sun 25 Mar, 2018 4:53 am

I'd recommend buying the 2017 model if you can find it. It has hip belt pockets which are one of my favourite features of the exos. 2018 model ditched the pockets for some dumb reason.
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Re: Going Lighter

Postby Lamont » Sun 25 Mar, 2018 9:34 am

Yes, agreed, the new Exos though has improved ventilation. I reckon they feel this trumps all, plus it creates a nice marketing gap to the Levity....
But the Talon 44 2017 has better carrying capacity and better pockets and reasonable venting and it is not too big, it is sold as a day-pack like the Exos 38, but still the 1 kg makes it really not UL. Just out of curiosity, do people use a 40L pack as a day-pack?
I use the 2017 Exos 38 as my normal sack for 3-4 days 3 season weather.
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Re: Going Lighter

Postby wildwanderer » Sun 25 Mar, 2018 1:29 pm

Lamont wrote: Just out of curiosity, do people use a 40L pack as a day-pack?


I remember about 10 years ago I was using a 30-35L Macpac kestral as a daypack and so were most of my friends. It also doubled as a uni bag so the size was necessary to carry all the dam books and notes our lecturers used to give us. NZ Made and featuring waxed canvas its fairly indestructible. I still have it. Now I think bags are more specialised and I currently use a 18L which is more than enough for a full day in four season conditions.
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