Ultralight backpacking=fad?

A place to chat about gear and the philosphy of ultralight. Ultralight bushwalking or backpacking focuses on carrying the lightest and simplest kit. There is still a good focus on safety and skill.
Forum rules
Ultralight Bushwalking/backpacking is about more than just gear lists. Ultralight walkers carefully consider gear based on the environment they are entering, the weather forecast, their own skill, other people in the group. Gear and systems are tested and tweaked.
If you are new to this area then welcome - Please remember that although the same ultralight philosophy can be used in all environments that the specific gear and skill required will vary greatly. It is very dangerous to assume that you can just copy someone else's gear list, but you are encouraged to ask questions, learn and start reducing the pack weight and enjoying the freedom that comes.

Common words
Base pack backpacking the mass of the backpack and the gear inside - not including consumables such as food, water and fuel
light backpacking base weight less than 9.1kg
ultralight backpacking base weight less than 4.5kg
super-ultralight backpacking base weight less than 2.3kg
extreme-ultralight backpacking base weight less than 1.4kg

Re: Ultralight backpacking=fad?

Postby Giddy_up » Wed 11 Dec, 2013 1:09 pm

ErichFromm wrote:I don't see the point in labels, UL, SUL, Light or otherwise. I do however want to save my knees as much as possible, and take advantage of new technologies and materials to that end. In past months I have a new backpack (Osprey Aether), new sleeping bag (Katabatic Gear palisade quilt) and just today received my Tarptent DR. Pretty happy at putting together some nice, quality and light, equipment. Most of my hikes are up mountains however, and I can rarely rely on finding water... So it doesn't seem to make that big a difference having a backback that weights 500gm less when I'm already carrying 6 litres of water :(

So ideally someone will come out with UL water and all my problems will be solved....


Thats how I use to think ErichFromm, but I now realise that if I lower the weight of all the other components in my kit I may be able to carry that same 6l of water without any penalty, where as before it was an addition burden to my pack and my body.
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Re: Ultralight backpacking=fad?

Postby ErichFromm » Wed 11 Dec, 2013 2:08 pm

True. And clearly it makes a difference when heading back to the car when most of the water is gone - although by then my knees are so shot I don't really notice
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Re: Ultralight backpacking=fad?

Postby Strider » Wed 11 Dec, 2013 2:10 pm

Only 500g saved with a new Big 3??
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Re: Ultralight backpacking=fad?

Postby ErichFromm » Wed 11 Dec, 2013 2:46 pm

500g was just a random number. In all honesty have never weighed my kit.....at least not without food and water included. Last winter it was 30kg.... but then I was carrying my stuff plus a large share of a friends for the snow....
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Re: Ultralight backpacking=fad?

Postby GPSGuided » Wed 11 Dec, 2013 4:21 pm

ErichFromm wrote:500g was just a random number...

Doesn't look too random to me. 487g or 513g looked more random to me. :wink:
Just move it!
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Re: Ultralight backpacking=fad?

Postby ULWalkingPhil » Fri 13 Dec, 2013 4:04 pm

Giddy_up wrote:You baking hot muffins for afternoon tea, with a bloke watching on who has just carried 25kgs would be a heart breaker I reckon.

What were your shoes Phil.


Shoes are Merrel Mix Master.
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Re: Ultralight backpacking=fad?

Postby ULWalkingPhil » Fri 13 Dec, 2013 4:17 pm

wayno wrote:Hi Phil
if you were going to Tasmania in cooler or cold weather, do you have any idea what your pack weight range would be then?


I been thinking long and hard about this, I was going to say it would depend on the season, but I read and been told many times that you can get all 4 seasons in one day at Tasmania. So I guess I will have to prepare for the worst. I've tested my gear in cold weather recently, when i visited Sydney, Blue Mountains and Canberra for about 6 weeks in winter and I was warm. Mostly with my Hammock, only the once did I use my Cuben DuoMid, that was at North Era Camp ground at Royal National Park, that was only because there was no trees at North Era. Coldest it got down to for me while out bushwalking was -1 C with a strong westerly blowing, I was in my hammock, I did have some shelter from the winds with all the trees, but still a bit of a breeze blowing through camp. It was the coldest I ever been down to on a overnight hike, and I was in my hammock. I would think for Feb or March next year this gear of mine should be sufficient for the Overland Track. The Overland Track I will take my Cuben Duomid with the Oooknest full inner. Not certain I will be able to make it to the OLT in Feb or Mar, it will be a spur of the moment decision, will book a week or two before I leave.

Also I would love to have seen some snow, I never seen snow, maybe I will wait till it snows than book the track. But I don't have any experience in snow. Lot's of thinking to do about this one.
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Re: Ultralight backpacking=fad?

Postby wayno » Fri 13 Dec, 2013 4:24 pm

so what gear and clothes would you take for the colder conditions?
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Re: Ultralight backpacking=fad?

Postby Strider » Fri 13 Dec, 2013 4:35 pm

wayno wrote:so what gear and clothes would you take for the colder conditions?
You can hardly expect him to know the answer to this, given he has no experience in such conditions, Wayno. The only way to truly understand what works is to over-equip initially for the benefit of safety and gradually tailor your own personal solutions as greater and more relevant experience is gained. We all started there no matter what conditions we typically walk in!
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Re: Ultralight backpacking=fad?

Postby ULWalkingPhil » Fri 13 Dec, 2013 4:40 pm

wayno wrote:so what gear and clothes would you take for the colder conditions?


I have a collection of cold weather clothes, to name a few, a Macpac Sundowner XP Down Jacket, it's a bit heavy at about 700 grams, but very warm, this is what I taken with me while I was away. I since purchased a Montbell EX Light down jacket that weighs next to nothing. I have both longs and tops in Merino and a synthetic jacket, I can't remember what it's called, that weighs about 350 grams. I also had this with me while I was away.

If I wait till it snow, I will probably end up taking the Macpac down jacket with me. I also own a pair of Macpac Prophet Pants eVent, these would be ideal for snow conditions. Shoes I don't know yet, I can't wear those heavy leather boots, they just mangle my feet to badly. I have a bit of a collection of cold gear here, it all depends what the conditions are like just before I leave, But if I wait till it snow, most likely I will, i will certainly be taking the Macpac Jacket and Prophet pants. My pack weight will be a little heavier than normal, but than the Prophet Pants most likely I will be wearing those during the day as I walk. I been asking for some advise in the Macpac stores while I was away and they told me just my merino top and my synthetic jacket I purchased of them will be more than sufficient. But, I don't believe to much what they tell me in those stores. There only there to sell as much as they can and will virtually say anything to get a sale.
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Re: Ultralight backpacking=fad?

Postby ULWalkingPhil » Fri 13 Dec, 2013 4:43 pm

Strider wrote:
wayno wrote:so what gear and clothes would you take for the colder conditions?
You can hardly expect him to know the answer to this, given he has no experience in such conditions, Wayno. The only way to truly understand what works is to over-equip initially for the benefit of safety and gradually tailor your own personal solutions as greater and more relevant experience is gained. We all started there no matter what conditions we typically walk in!


Yep, your correct there, I don't know the answer to this.

I plan to head over to New Zealand to do a few of the bushwalks in the next year or two.
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Re: Ultralight backpacking=fad?

Postby wayno » Fri 13 Dec, 2013 4:52 pm

for tas or NZ you'd only need the heavier down jacket for camps or huts.. as long as you keep the wind and rain out.. you will find you dont need bulky layers while you're moving. a thin fleece and shell or synthetic insulated jacket can provide a lot of warmth on the move, it's when you stop or get wet that the real issue of cold comes into play...
dont over insulate, you want to avoid sweating any more than necessary, when you stop if you're soaked in sweat then you've got bigger issues for retaining warmth.... be aware you may need to change out of damp clothes quickly when you stop at the end of the day...
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Re: Ultralight backpacking=fad?

Postby ULWalkingPhil » Fri 13 Dec, 2013 5:18 pm

wayno wrote:for tas or NZ you'd only need the heavier down jacket for camps or huts.. as long as you keep the wind and rain out.. you will find you dont need bulky layers while you're moving. a thin fleece and shell or synthetic insulated jacket can provide a lot of warmth on the move, it's when you stop or get wet that the real issue of cold comes into play...
dont over insulate, you want to avoid sweating any more than necessary, when you stop if you're soaked in sweat then you've got bigger issues for retaining warmth.... be aware you may need to change out of damp clothes quickly when you stop at the end of the day...


This what I found out while I was away during winter. At one stage I was sweating because I had to much clothes on. Even though it was a max of 4 to 5 C that day, I felt very hot. I started walking in shorts after that.

up at the blue mountains I started wearing shorts on my walks during winter.

I much prefer bushwalking in the cold than the warmer months.
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Re: Ultralight backpacking=fad?

Postby wayno » Fri 13 Dec, 2013 5:29 pm

yup.. you're already getting a good feel for how to manage your layers in cold weather...
one issue to watch for drop in temperature, you can feel more comfortable when the temp drops to start with, but theres a fine line as your body temp drops and you can edge towards hypothermia... cold hands and toes are a sign your core temp is dropping lower
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Re: Ultralight backpacking=fad?

Postby Zone-5 » Wed 08 Jan, 2014 4:39 am

I luv this section but in reality it's me that needs reducing more then my pack weight. I fear that if I lighten the load too much then I'll start to automatically gain weight in response! :oops:
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Re: Ultralight backpacking=fad?

Postby Strider » Wed 08 Jan, 2014 8:41 am

Zone-5 wrote:I luv this section but in reality it's me that needs reducing more then my pack weight. I fear that if I lighten the load too much then I'll start to automatically gain weight in response! :oops:
I hear you, brother. I'll never be skinny but definitely need to lose a fair bit. A lighter pack does make it easier to tackle more demanding walk with a lower level of fitness, however.
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Re: Ultralight backpacking=fad?

Postby wayno » Wed 08 Jan, 2014 8:43 am

the weight in your pack is worse than comparable extra body weight. it throws your centre of gravity out meaning youhave to compensate more with change of stature when you walk, straining your body more and using more energy and needing more strength.
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Re: Ultralight backpacking=fad?

Postby Strider » Wed 08 Jan, 2014 8:47 am

wayno wrote:the weight in your pack is worse than comparable extra body weight. it throws your centre of gravity out meaning youhave to compensate more with change of stature when you walk, straining your body more and using more energy and needing more strength.
Unless you have an Aarn pack ;)
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Re: Ultralight backpacking=fad?

Postby Bubbalouie » Wed 08 Jan, 2014 9:22 am

wayno wrote:the weight in your pack is worse than comparable extra body weight. it throws your centre of gravity out meaning youhave to compensate more with change of stature when you walk, straining your body more and using more energy and needing more strength.


Agreed, further your body adapts to a certain weight doing day walks and more generally just walking about the place. So a heavier body will always be what you're used to if you are active.

For active adults I'd argue that percentage of your body weight (in reference to your pack) is more relevant than total actual weight.
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Re: Ultralight backpacking=fad?

Postby sim1oz » Wed 08 Jan, 2014 5:59 pm

Argue away!! I'm trying to reduce body weight and pack weight at the moment. Winter was so bad (but yummy) that I don't even fit into my bushwalking pants at the moment...and I have them in 3 sizes :(
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Re: Ultralight backpacking=fad?

Postby wayno » Wed 08 Jan, 2014 6:00 pm

sim1oz wrote:Argue away!! I'm trying to reduce body weight and pack weight at the moment. Winter was so bad (but yummy) that I don't even fit into my bushwalking pants at the moment...and I have them in 3 sizes :(


theres only one answer, join Fat Canyoner's au naturel trips !! 8)
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Re: Ultralight backpacking=fad?

Postby Zone-5 » Wed 08 Jan, 2014 9:20 pm

wayno wrote:
sim1oz wrote:Argue away!! I'm trying to reduce body weight and pack weight at the moment. Winter was so bad (but yummy) that I don't even fit into my bushwalking pants at the moment...and I have them in 3 sizes :(


theres only one answer, join Fat Canyoner's au naturel trips !! 8)


I know I'm push'en it but you had to...

http://fatcanyoners.org/2013/10/16/nude-calendar/

Image

:shock: :oops: :lol: :roll:
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Re: Ultralight backpacking=fad?

Postby ULWalkingPhil » Sat 11 Jan, 2014 4:17 pm

wayno wrote:
sim1oz wrote:Argue away!! I'm trying to reduce body weight and pack weight at the moment. Winter was so bad (but yummy) that I don't even fit into my bushwalking pants at the moment...and I have them in 3 sizes :(


theres only one answer, join Fat Canyoner's au naturel trips !! 8)


:lol: That's one way to save some weight.

I was willing to give this a go on one of Fat Canyoners au naturel walks while I was in Sydney during the last winter, but it was to cold for Fat Canyoner to organize a day trip.
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Re: Ultralight backpacking=fad?

Postby headwerkn » Wed 15 Jan, 2014 9:05 am

Zone-5 wrote:I luv this section but in reality it's me that needs reducing more then my pack weight.


+100. Let's just say that it isn't just my packing list that's been on a diet lately... ;-)

Bit silly to obssess over saving mere grams here and there on expensive gear when you're carrying around excess kilos around the waist.

Cheers, Ben.
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Re: Ultralight backpacking=fad?

Postby climberman » Wed 15 Jan, 2014 9:12 am

headwerkn wrote:
Zone-5 wrote:I luv this section but in reality it's me that needs reducing more then my pack weight.


+100. Let's just say that it isn't just my packing list that's been on a diet lately... ;-)

Bit silly to obssess over saving mere grams here and there on expensive gear when you're carrying around excess kilos around the waist.

Cheers, Ben.


No harm at all in doing both.
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Re: Ultralight backpacking=fad?

Postby Strider » Wed 15 Jan, 2014 9:17 am

I would argue that by getting out there and walking, we are doing both. Ultralight gear is simply an enabler that makes our goals more comfortably achievable.
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Re: Ultralight backpacking=fad?

Postby wayno » Wed 15 Jan, 2014 4:20 pm

well ultralighting is a hobby, up to the individual how they want to pursue it, if they want to shave every last gram they can off their gear, not hurting anyone, maybe its a challenge to find ways of saving weight. some people like to tinker, so they tinker with their gear to shave grams....
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Re: Ultralight backpacking=fad?

Postby nq111 » Wed 15 Jan, 2014 5:49 pm

I would put true ultralight vs standard walkers in the same pattern as F1 racing to normal car driving.

LIke F1, I wouldn't wan't to do it or push the same limits, but the technology and concepts are filtering down and benefiting the rest of us over time. I think UL will always be the pointy end of pushing the envelope - no matter how light standard walking becomes.

Personally, i have benefited enormously from listening and learning from ULers,but am not aiming to be UL myself.
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Re: Ultralight backpacking=fad?

Postby headwerkn » Thu 16 Jan, 2014 7:41 pm

climberman wrote:No harm at all in doing both.


True. And one helps the other too.

I dare say though, it is easier/cheaper to shed an excess 5-10-20 kg off yourself than shed anything near that from an already lightish base pack. The latter is of course fun to do (just bought a FeatherFire stove 20 mins ago) and has the benefit of not requiring regular visits to the gym and/or limiting your beer/chocolate intake!

Cheers, Ben.
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Re: Ultralight backpacking=fad?

Postby GPSGuided » Fri 17 Jan, 2014 6:06 am

Question is, how much further can the UL brigade continue in that quest? Has it largely bottomed until we invent air tents and virtual backpacks?
Just move it!
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