Two Day Setup

A place to chat about gear and the philosphy of ultralight. Ultralight bushwalking or backpacking focuses on carrying the lightest and simplest kit. There is still a good focus on safety and skill.
Forum rules
Ultralight Bushwalking/backpacking is about more than just gear lists. Ultralight walkers carefully consider gear based on the environment they are entering, the weather forecast, their own skill, other people in the group. Gear and systems are tested and tweaked.
If you are new to this area then welcome - Please remember that although the same ultralight philosophy can be used in all environments that the specific gear and skill required will vary greatly. It is very dangerous to assume that you can just copy someone else's gear list, but you are encouraged to ask questions, learn and start reducing the pack weight and enjoying the freedom that comes.

Common words
Base pack backpacking the mass of the backpack and the gear inside - not including consumables such as food, water and fuel
light backpacking base weight less than 9.1kg
ultralight backpacking base weight less than 4.5kg
super-ultralight backpacking base weight less than 2.3kg
extreme-ultralight backpacking base weight less than 1.4kg

Two Day Setup

Postby Allchin09 » Tue 01 Oct, 2013 7:42 pm

Hey,

I am going on a walk this weekend that requires a light weight load to allow fast travel. Below is a photo of my pack, and what is contained within it minus food (1.3kg) and water (1.2kg).

DSC03488new.jpg
Backpack packed
DSC03488new.jpg (198.91 KiB) Viewed 33087 times


DSC03490new.jpg
The gear
DSC03490new.jpg (245.13 KiB) Viewed 33087 times

The items listed from left to right, row by row are as follows:

Back row - WM Highlite sleeping bag in stuff sack (577g), 1.5L aluminium billy and plastic bag (231g), poncho/groundsheet/shelter combo (337g), Sea2Summit alloy spoon (10g), homemade folding CCF bedroll (193g), bedroll cover (44g) and modified 22L Sea2Summit Ultra-Sil dry day pack (140g).

Middle row - 2xCottees Cordial 1L bottle (58g each), Silva A-20 compass (32g), Cooper tools knife (97g), Princeton Tec Fuel head torch (79g) and bag with first aid, survival blanket, matches, firestarters, puritabs, etc (275g).

Front row - Merino Skins thermal top (306g), undershirt (147g), Neck warmer (46g), Icebreaker long socks (74g), Underpants (50g) and thermal pants (169g).

Total weight without food and water - 2.9kg
Predicted total weight - 5.4kg

Any thoughts or comments?
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Re: Two Day Setup

Postby forest » Tue 01 Oct, 2013 8:19 pm

What pack is that ?? Is it one of those sts dry packs. I know your being very weight conscious but surely some pack comfort with a hip belt would be welcome. I've used one in nz day packing out of back country huts. Yeh they work but are not very comfy and I found it very very sweaty on my back.

Ditch the spare jocks. You'll stink anyway. Just wear your thermal pants at night bareback if your daytime jocks are wet.
Your knife is a bit heavy (UL wise) get a victornox fixed blade one from king of knives etc and make a thin cardboard sheath. Will only cost $5-6 and will weight approx. 20g. Or a smaller folder like the mini victornox etc.
Is there anyway you could lighten your first aid etc bag. It seems heavy. I find reducing things to the possible amount I'll need for the trip duration first aid wise helps. ie just take 2-4 panadol pills instead of a whole 12 pills in a card.
I am a GEAR JUNKIE and GRAM COUNTER !!

There, It's out. I said it, Ahh I feel better now :lol:
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Re: Two Day Setup

Postby icefest » Tue 01 Oct, 2013 8:22 pm

Not sure where you are hiking, but it looks like a decent setup.

Are you planning on spending any money on lighter gear? (Not that you really need it) I can suggest some replacements.
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Re: Two Day Setup

Postby Scottyk » Tue 01 Oct, 2013 8:31 pm

Where are you off to?, might help people provide advice on the set up.
I would rather a water bladder than the cordial bottles but that is just a personal thing.
I'm with Forest on the spare jocks, ditch 'em.
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Re: Two Day Setup

Postby Allchin09 » Tue 01 Oct, 2013 10:32 pm

Forest - The pack is the one that you describe by SeaToSummit. I have only recently bought it and have only tested in on a short day walk. Being the first frameless backpack that I have used, I had a bit of a shock when I found out how carefully you have to pack the bag so that it is comfortable. I will be also testing it on a full day walk this week with all the gear and weight, and that should give me a better understanding of how comfortable it is. I found that the straps dug into my shoulder, so I have taped some foam tubing around each of the straps to provide some cushioning, which seems to do the trick.

Fair comment with regards to the jocks. I know the knife is on the heavy side and I will be looking into getting something more suitable along the lines of your suggestion in the near future.

As for the first aid kit, it does seem to be on the heavy side. Items that may be adding to the weight are a pack of zappos (emergency sugar lollies), the survival blanket, tweezers and the 3 spare AAA batteries. I have taken out some excess band-aids and tablets.

Icefest - I am planning on spending money on lighter gear. This is my first real attempt at lightweight walking, and besides the new sleeping bag and the backpack, everything is gear that I have used in the past. Any suggestions for future improvements / purchases are most welcome.

Scottyk - I am walking in the area between Katoomba and Kanangra in the Blue Mountains. I have used a camelbak bladder in the past but I have found that I drink too much water because it is so accessible (which I just can't afford doing as there are only a few water resup points) and I also have trouble monitoring how much water I have left, but like you say though, it is a personal thing.
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Re: Two Day Setup

Postby icefest » Tue 01 Oct, 2013 10:57 pm

If you are prepared to spend some money here are some comments with possible replacements.

Back row - WM Highlite sleeping bag in stuff sack (577g)down quilt 400g, 1.5L aluminium billy Replace with 1l Ti model - 120gand plastic bag (231g), poncho/groundsheet/shelter combo (337g)If it works and you are happy with it, not a huge range of improvement is possible, Sea2Summit alloy spoon Anything lighter will only save a gram or two - not worth replacing(10g), homemade folding CCF bedroll (193g)good, can it be shortened?, bedroll cover (44g)What is this? and modified 22L Sea2Summit Ultra-Sil dry day pack (140g)Cuben fibre frameless pack - 108g .

Middle row - 2xCottees Cordial 1L bottle (58g each) I use 1.5l AquaEssence bottles @22g each, search forums for more details., Silva A-20 compass (32g), Cooper tools knife (97g)if you only need a knife, Baladeo make a 14g folding knife, Princeton Tec Fuel head torch (79g) and bag with first aid, survival blanket, matches, firestarters, puritabs, etc (275g).

Front row - Merino Skins thermal top (306g), undershirt (147g), Neck warmer (46g), Icebreaker long socks (74g), Underpants (50g) and thermal pants (169g).
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Re: Two Day Setup

Postby Allchin09 » Tue 01 Oct, 2013 11:31 pm

Icefest - Thanks for the recommendations, I will look into them.
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Re: Two Day Setup

Postby Strider » Tue 01 Oct, 2013 11:51 pm

I see your compass, but where are your maps?
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Re: Two Day Setup

Postby Allchin09 » Wed 02 Oct, 2013 12:34 am

Strider - Good pickup, the sectionS of the topo maps will be photocopied onto 3-4 sheets of A4 paper to save weight. I am yet to do this, and so it was not included in the photograph. I expect it to only to only way a few grams, much less than the full maps anyway.
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Re: Two Day Setup

Postby Allchin09 » Wed 02 Oct, 2013 12:41 am

Icefest - I have now cut off 4 sections of my mat, so that it only covers from my head to just past my hips. I can now fit the mat inside my pack where it acts as padding between the gear in the bag and my back. It also means I no longer need the 44g bag which the mat was placed into protect it as my backpack will now do that.
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Re: Two Day Setup

Postby wayno » Wed 02 Oct, 2013 6:11 am

i've got the sea to summit non dry bag version of their ultra light pack... i'll only use it for short side trips or around town with little weight in it... not that comfortable for anything longer, it's basically a sack with straps attached...
sometimes a bit of extra weight is worth it for something more comfortable. the longer your trip the more uncomfortable items can irritate you...
if you really want to be that light look at something like the inov8 light pack range, made for adventure raccers, light materials, more comfort... and can come with build in bladders...
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Re: Two Day Setup

Postby forest » Wed 02 Oct, 2013 7:59 am

Allchin09 wrote:Forest - The pack is the one that you describe by SeaToSummit. I have only recently bought it and have only tested in on a short day walk. Being the first frameless backpack that I have used, I had a bit of a shock when I found out how carefully you have to pack the bag so that it is comfortable. I will be also testing it on a full day walk this week with all the gear and weight, and that should give me a better understanding of how comfortable it is. I found that the straps dug into my shoulder, so I have taped some foam tubing around each of the straps to provide some cushioning, which seems to do the trick.


I know technically this is a "frameless" pack but really like myself and Wayno said they are just designed for minimal usage. I proper frameless pack will be much different.
Like you found out those straps are terrible on the STS. I can understand your budget constraints but if possible don't skimp on the pack, a crap one could wreck the trip for you.
Good move on getting the CCF into the pack, that will give it better support but regardless it will still all ride on those crap shoulder straps.
UL isn't about taking s*&^%$#a gear and fighting it out with the elements, stumbling home and saying "yeh, I made it with XX gear ".
Aim more for smart gear choices (Which you seem to be doing for the main part)

One thing I do see missing is some type of insulating jacket. Merino thermals are good but I have found more warmth for minimal weight from a cheap 100wt fleece pullover. I'm not saying a 100wt fleece is anything I would class as an insulating layer like a puffy jacket, you just might get a little more warmth for weight compared to a thermal baselayer. You can get cheap thin fleece jumpers at rays outdoor, lowes, kmart etc but this time of year they can be light on the shelves as we are leaning into summer months. I have a few thin fleece jumpers that weigh between 200-250g and most likely will give better warmth than the merino skins but see how you go. Fleece dries a whole lot faster than merino gear too. When you get the funds grab yourself a good UL down jacket like a Montbell UL or Ex light. It will pack much smaller and give you better warmth for weight in camp.

One other thing about water bottles. Like icefest said the soft bottles are great. Best thing is when empty they pack right down and take up no space. I use Platypus bottles but they are all pretty similar.
I'm with you on the hydration bladder. I suck too much on them and prefer bottles so I can see how much I have left, monitor my usage etc. Besides bladders are heavy compared to light bottles.

Your almost doing the whole SUL thing. Best of luck, I like too many comforts like a hammock or inflatable mat to get much under 4-5kgs.......
I am a GEAR JUNKIE and GRAM COUNTER !!

There, It's out. I said it, Ahh I feel better now :lol:
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Re: Two Day Setup

Postby wayno » Wed 02 Oct, 2013 8:09 am

Ultralighters are usually ultralighters because their priority is to walk as far and as fast as possible. they spend as little time camping as possible,,
they have no luxuries for the camp, if you're going to spend much time in camp it can get awful boring if you take the ultralight approach and you're not used to being without anything other than the absolute bare essentials for survival...
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Re: Two Day Setup

Postby forest » Wed 02 Oct, 2013 8:30 am

wayno wrote:Ultralighters are usually ultralighters because their priority is to walk as far and as fast as possible. they spend as little time camping as possible,,
they have no luxuries for the camp, if you're going to spend much time in camp it can get awful boring if you take the ultralight approach and you're not used to being without anything other than the absolute bare essentials for survival...

Big call Wayno. I don't mean that in a nasty way. It's just your not huge on UL and I am right into it. You got any info to back that up. With modern gear UL is by no means just taking the essentials for survival, at least for walks on tracks and trails etc.
I take plenty of items that I would call "luxury". I even take my kindle most walks to read in camp and I'm still under 10lbs baseweight. The only thing I would like to add in for comfort would be one of those helinox chairs (Not required when the hammock goes as it's an awesome seat). I sunk my bum in one of those on Larapinta and it sure was nice, much better than the rock I was calling home.
I feel these days it's the SUL'ers taking stuff all gear.
You are correct though and the aim is to cover more distance for me each day, but some might just like the reduced load and strain, have medical reasons for carrying less weight etc.
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Re: Two Day Setup

Postby wayno » Wed 02 Oct, 2013 8:33 am

maybe i read too much Andrew Skurka?
he calls himself an "ultimate hiker" but he is pretty much ultralight, his interpretation of ultralighters is to just take the bare essentials... and a lot of what i've read elsewhere has married up with that... some of my gear is ultralight but i'm in no way an ultralight hiker
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Re: Two Day Setup

Postby madmacca » Thu 03 Oct, 2013 11:05 pm

wayno wrote:maybe i read too much Andrew Skurka?
he calls himself an "ultimate hiker" but he is pretty much ultralight, his interpretation of ultralighters is to just take the bare essentials... and a lot of what i've read elsewhere has married up with that... some of my gear is ultralight but i'm in no way an ultralight hiker


Wayno,

I think you're being a bit doctrinaire about ultralighting.

Yes, Skurka's rationale is definitely further and faster. But plenty of other people follow ultralight techniques for other reasons - whether it is to take along a heap of camera gear while keeping their overall load reasonable, some just to lighten the load on ageing knees and to be able to keep bushwalking, some to be able to be selective of what comforts they do take, etc.
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Re: Two Day Setup

Postby Joomy » Mon 07 Oct, 2013 10:00 pm

Well sh*t, I was going to say replace that horrible STS sil-nylon sack with an MLD Newt, but when I went to the MLD site I couldn't find it. Looks like it's been discontinued. Really sad since it was a sub-200g pack made from 210d X Dyneema (tough fabric) with padded shoulder straps and a roll-top closure. I hate non-padded shoulder straps! I modelled my own day pack after it after finding silnylon packs inadequate from both comfort and durability perspectives. You can still see it here.

I'm not sure what I would recommend as a good alternative to Silnylon daypacks now. The Newt was an unrivalled combination of comfort, weight and durability, IMO.
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Re: Two Day Setup

Postby ULWalkingPhil » Tue 08 Oct, 2013 10:02 pm

My base pack weight for winter bushwalking weighs 4.2kg and I dry bake cakes and muffins at camp. UL can be done with comfort and luxeries.
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Re: Two Day Setup

Postby Lindsay » Fri 11 Oct, 2013 9:18 pm

I've just finished packing for a 2 night trip in the Blue Mountains starting tomorrow and my all up weight is 12.9kg. I am carrying 3 litres of water and 1kg of food, which leaves my base weight at 8.9kg. Even using a lightweight pack, tent, mattress and minimal clothing I don't see a lot of room to reduce this weight much further. Things like the PLB, GPS, notebook and pen, small plastic bag with credit card and cash, phone, glasses, kindle, camera etc. all add up.
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Re: Two Day Setup

Postby Strider » Fri 11 Oct, 2013 9:25 pm

Lindsay wrote:Even using a lightweight pack, tent, mattress and minimal clothing I don't see a lot of room to reduce this weight much further. Things like the PLB, GPS, notebook and pen, small plastic bag with credit card and cash, phone, glasses, kindle, camera etc. all add up.

Have you individually weighed everything and entered into a spreadsheet? Can be quite an eye opener.
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Re: Two Day Setup

Postby icefest » Fri 11 Oct, 2013 11:22 pm

Lindsay wrote:I've just finished packing for a 2 night trip in the Blue Mountains starting tomorrow and my all up weight is 12.9kg. I am carrying 3 litres of water and 1kg of food, which leaves my base weight at 8.9kg. Even using a lightweight pack, tent, mattress and minimal clothing I don't see a lot of room to reduce this weight much further. Things like the PLB, GPS, notebook and pen, small plastic bag with credit card and cash, phone, glasses, kindle, camera etc. all add up.

Make a new thread, put in object types and weights.

We might be able to help.
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Re: Two Day Setup

Postby wayno » Sat 12 Oct, 2013 3:18 am

Lindsay wrote:I've just finished packing for a 2 night trip in the Blue Mountains starting tomorrow and my all up weight is 12.9kg. I am carrying 3 litres of water and 1kg of food, which leaves my base weight at 8.9kg. Even using a lightweight pack, tent, mattress and minimal clothing I don't see a lot of room to reduce this weight much further. Things like the PLB, GPS, notebook and pen, small plastic bag with credit card and cash, phone, glasses, kindle, camera etc. all add up.



sounds like a good weight, you'll have enough gear to cover you for all weather if its good gear..

next time you're shopping to replace an item do a weight comparison on what you're replacing and what you're looking at replacing it with, you never know where you will save weight... sometimes you can save weight, sometimes not, sometimes the weight saving may not be much, sometimes it will.. whatever you're happy with.
some people might say 9 kilos is too much , but in the end you have to be happy with the weight you're taking and your weight isnt excessive. i'd be happy with that weight...
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Re: Two Day Setup

Postby Joomy » Mon 14 Oct, 2013 8:59 pm

Lindsay wrote:I've just finished packing for a 2 night trip in the Blue Mountains starting tomorrow and my all up weight is 12.9kg. I am carrying 3 litres of water and 1kg of food, which leaves my base weight at 8.9kg. Even using a lightweight pack, tent, mattress and minimal clothing I don't see a lot of room to reduce this weight much further. Things like the PLB, GPS, notebook and pen, small plastic bag with credit card and cash, phone, glasses, kindle, camera etc. all add up.

Well, yes, it's the luxuries that we take that end up weighing us down. As we've seen from the UL crowd, the bare essentials really only need weigh a few kilos. PLB, GPS, phone, Kindle and camera is certainly a lot of extra baggage, but off the top of my head I can't see how they would add up to much more than a kilo, unless your camera is a big beast (right? Plb 200g, GPS 150g, phone 120g, kindle 250g, camera < 400?). If that's right then your biggest "luxury weight" is elsewhere I think. A "main-stream" pack, a double wall tent, plush mat, plush sleeping bag and "extra" (or simply heavy) clothing are all things that can be substituted for lighter alternatives with little to lose other than money. Take what the "average modern hiker" uses in each of those categories and you can probably shave up to half a kilo for each one without sacrificing safety or comfort, probably 2-3kg overall at least.
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Re: Two Day Setup

Postby Strider » Mon 14 Oct, 2013 11:19 pm

I don't include my PLB in my baseweight. Removes the temptation to leave it behind.
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Re: Two Day Setup

Postby wayno » Tue 15 Oct, 2013 4:29 am

5 Dangerous Hiking Mistakes

Male hiker resting his hands on knees, exhaustedStanding atop a hill after a long and grueling hike, it's easy to feel invincible. You've pushed yourself to your limits, survived nature's sometimes unpredictable conditions — what could stop you now?

Turns out, it could be a number of simple beginner mistakes or time-saving shortcuts that even experienced hikers are guilty of taking. Even the most trail-hardened can be caught unprepared. Lisa Hendy, Yosemite National Park emergency services program manager, and Todd Duncan, Sierra Club program safety manager, share some of the most frequent and preventable mistakes hikers make on the trail, and some tips for staying safe:

1. Underestimating the trail: This one is more common among beginners, but can have disastrous consequences. Be honest with yourself, think about how often you hit the gym, and choose a trail that is realistic for your party's ability level. There's no shame in starting out easy and working your way up to more difficult hikes, but there may be a bit of embarrassment in turning around when you hit a wall on the first hill. So do your research: many national park websites include handy guides to their trails that include length, elevation, and difficulty ratings, and there are more hiking handbooks available for all skill levels than can be named in this blog post.

2. Failing to prepare: Both Hendy and Duncan agree, coming unprepared is one of the most common missteps made by hikers of all skill levels. "One mistake can change the face of everything," says Hendy. "For example, this time of year, heading out for a day hike with only a light jacket and a headlamp would be fine if everything goes well. However, if you twist your ankle and are out overnight, that could be a miserable mistake." Gather the ten essentials, anticipate changes in weather or emergencies that might delay your trip, and pack accordingly.

3. Going alone: While a solo hike in itself isn't automatically dangerous, Hendy says the most common mistake made by experienced hikers is taking off alone without notifying anyone of their trip. Be sure to tell someone where you are going and when you plan to be back. Many experienced hikers recommend investing in or renting a personal locator beacon, which can help rescuers locate you in an emergency. But remember, just because you're easier to find doesn't necessarily mean you're safer. Hikers carrying PLBs should still trek carefully, and always tell someone where they're going.

4. Traveling off-trail: Even if you've hiked these woods a thousand times, you're a licensed cartographer and you were born on this very trail, a hiking trip is one of those times when it might be best to take the road more-traveled. Though many hikers safely practice off-trail hiking, most acknowledge the added dangers that come with it, and the specific preparation required to stray from the beaten path. Unless you're prepared to hike off-trail, it can be a pretty reliable way to get lost or injured (or both).

5. Abandoning the plan: While turning back before you reach the end of the trail can be frustrating, it beats having to make camp unexpectedly. Hikers set turn-around times for a reason, and you don't want to be caught unprepared as the sun goes down. Keep an eye on your watch, and determine when you'll need to begin heading back to safely reach your car or campsite.

How can hikers of all skill levels ensure they're taking all of the precautions necessary for their trip? Hendy has a few hard and fast rules for a safe hike: "Plan ahead and tell a friend the plan, and who to call if you do not return on time. Plan for something to go wrong and delay you — bring a headlamp always, an extra small snack, and a layer of clothing that can keep you warm if you are delayed."
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Re: Two Day Setup

Postby Joomy » Tue 15 Oct, 2013 1:56 pm

Strider wrote:I don't include my PLB in my baseweight. Removes the temptation to leave it behind.

Yeah I wasn't suggesting he shouldn't take it, but rather highlighting that all those electronics he listed aren't actually all that heavy.
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Re: Two Day Setup

Postby Lindsay » Wed 16 Oct, 2013 6:47 am

Thanks to all who replied to my earlier post. I do have a spreadsheet on the GearGrams site with all my kit listed, rather than derail this thread any further I'll start a new one.
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Re: Two Day Setup

Postby David M » Sat 19 Oct, 2013 6:36 pm

You could replace the 58g Cottees 1 litre bottles with 1.25 litre PET soft drink bottles at 43.5 g without the label. I'm not sure how they compare with the 22 g AquaEssence bottles mentioned above in terms of strength and durability. I assume the soft drink bottles would be stronger due to them being designed to hold pressure.
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Re: Two Day Setup

Postby Allchin09 » Sun 20 Oct, 2013 8:06 pm

David M - I will look at changing the bottles. I guess the reason I had the Cottees bottles was that on my old backpack the two of them fitted nicely into the two outside mesh pockets on my backpack. Now that I have the bottles inside the backpack, size isn't so much of an issue and I can use a large and lighter bottle such as the ones mentioned.
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