montane air hardshell replacement

A place to chat about gear and the philosphy of ultralight. Ultralight bushwalking or backpacking focuses on carrying the lightest and simplest kit. There is still a good focus on safety and skill.
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Ultralight Bushwalking/backpacking is about more than just gear lists. Ultralight walkers carefully consider gear based on the environment they are entering, the weather forecast, their own skill, other people in the group. Gear and systems are tested and tweaked.
If you are new to this area then welcome - Please remember that although the same ultralight philosophy can be used in all environments that the specific gear and skill required will vary greatly. It is very dangerous to assume that you can just copy someone else's gear list, but you are encouraged to ask questions, learn and start reducing the pack weight and enjoying the freedom that comes.

Common words
Base pack backpacking the mass of the backpack and the gear inside - not including consumables such as food, water and fuel
light backpacking base weight less than 9.1kg
ultralight backpacking base weight less than 4.5kg
super-ultralight backpacking base weight less than 2.3kg
extreme-ultralight backpacking base weight less than 1.4kg

montane air hardshell replacement

Postby wayno » Sat 22 Feb, 2014 4:59 pm

montane have stopped making the air jacket
they have replaced it with the Aero. and shaved thirty odd grams off the design with a pullover design

http://www.montane.co.uk/range/men/shel ... t-pullover

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Re: montane air hardshell replacement

Postby GPSGuided » Sat 22 Feb, 2014 6:11 pm

Is it worth it?
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Re: montane air hardshell replacement

Postby wayno » Sat 22 Feb, 2014 6:15 pm

mate if you dont like weight savings of tens of grams the ultralight gear forum isnt the forum for you to cast your aspersions.... this forum was created to stop trolling the ultralighters
Last edited by wayno on Sat 22 Feb, 2014 6:15 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: montane air hardshell replacement

Postby stry » Sat 22 Feb, 2014 6:15 pm

Hood looks good, apart from what looks like no visor.

Short zip is good, particularly as so many manufacturers (Not One Planet, Swazi and Macpac) persist in those dinky zips with no weather flap.

C'mon Wayno - "is it worth it" hardly qualifies as casting aspersions. :D :D
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Re: montane air hardshell replacement

Postby wayno » Sat 22 Feb, 2014 6:19 pm

i think there is a kind of visor but it doesnt stick out much, mainly points down from the look of it.... looks like its made to be lightweight first and have extra functional bits as a lower priority...
montane redid most of their rainshell lineup... most of their heavier rainshells seem to be designed with climbing in mind.... certainly all their other event ones and a neoshell one are...
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Re: montane air hardshell replacement

Postby stry » Sat 22 Feb, 2014 6:24 pm

Yeah - no visor (oops fixed it) seems to be a bit of a euro thing. Perhaps they are expecting that a helmet may be worn ?

If a cap is worn under, it sort of wipes out any weight saving from no visor/peak.

Plenty of the hill country in GB (to say nothing of mainland Europe) gets cold driving rain, so I am not sure how it all works for them.
Last edited by stry on Sat 22 Feb, 2014 8:34 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: montane air hardshell replacement

Postby wayno » Sat 22 Feb, 2014 6:30 pm

maybe its seen as more of a garment you wear when you're likely to have short bursts of rain rather than prolonged rain.
my westcomb shift lt is 340gm 3 layer. for that you get a proper stiffened hood peak, full length zipper, internal storm flap....
their spectre event model is 314gm same features
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Re: montane air hardshell replacement

Postby wayno » Sat 22 Feb, 2014 6:37 pm

its harder getting the weight down on three layer shells.
i've got a 2.5 layer full zip shell with a partially stiffened peak weighs 180gm.
if you want the weight down on a three layer you really have to strip out the design features and you're still coming out heavier than a 2.5.
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Re: montane air hardshell replacement

Postby wayno » Sat 22 Feb, 2014 6:46 pm

it says there is a peak, just probably not one of the bigger ones on the market 8)

Hood visor stiffened with a wire on the lip and a foam insert for extra durability
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Re: montane air hardshell replacement

Postby GPSGuided » Sat 22 Feb, 2014 8:28 pm

wayno wrote:mate if you dont like weight savings of tens of grams the ultralight gear forum isnt the forum for you to cast your aspersions.... this forum was created to stop trolling the ultralighters

Mate, that's a poor assumption on my question. Functionality vs weight trade-off, one that's hardly not a consideration for an ultralighter. Otherwise there'd be Cuben sheets than Montane gears.
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Re: montane air hardshell replacement

Postby wayno » Sun 23 Feb, 2014 4:16 am

GPSGuided wrote:
wayno wrote:mate if you dont like weight savings of tens of grams the ultralight gear forum isnt the forum for you to cast your aspersions.... this forum was created to stop trolling the ultralighters

Mate, that's a poor assumption on my question. Functionality vs weight trade-off, one that's hardly not a consideration for an ultralighter. Otherwise there'd be Cuben sheets than Montane gears.



it shows how your initial statement could easily be misread
ultralighters here have traditionally been bagged for their weight consciousness.
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Re: montane air hardshell replacement

Postby GPSGuided » Sun 23 Feb, 2014 10:07 am

wayno wrote:it shows how your initial statement could easily be misread
ultralighters here have traditionally been bagged for their weight consciousness.

Suggesting that ULters need to treated with kid's gloves? Carrying a baggage? Surely not. I think a mature UL forum should be able to positively respond to legitimate question.
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Re: montane air hardshell replacement

Postby wayno » Sun 23 Feb, 2014 10:11 am

this thread is about a jacket, not about how were going to debate about ultralighting
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Re: montane air hardshell replacement

Postby GPSGuided » Sun 23 Feb, 2014 10:17 am

You started the branch by misinterpreting a legitimate technical question.
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Re: montane air hardshell replacement

Postby Bubbalouie » Sun 23 Feb, 2014 10:42 am

GPSGuided wrote:You started the branch by misinterpreting a legitimate technical question.


Asking "is it worth upgrading" is actually a legitimate question in a UL forum.

You could upgrade this jacket and save N grams for a certain cost. For the same money you may be able to save even more weight. Alternatively there may be an alternative to upgrade to that has a greater saving. Also is the jacket even really an upgrade on the previous model.

A forum us a good place to ask such questions, present options and debate the costs / merits.

So, to rephrase your question (making assumptions here sorry):

Is it worth paying for an upgrade on the previous model or would it be better to get something else if you're angling to save a few grams?

My vote is looks like a nice bit of kit but the hoodie arrangement seems like it'd be a bit of a PITA compared to a full front zipper. For me the zipper would justify carrying a few extra grams (but then I'm not a true ultralighter either).
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Re: montane air hardshell replacement

Postby Ent » Sun 23 Feb, 2014 11:48 am

Back on track. I wonder if they have fixed the delamination issue that the Air suffers from. I like my Air but the bubbling between the layers means it is failing after only a few uses. The jacket otherwise is "strong" enough for track use and the occasional brushes with scrub.


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Re: montane air hardshell replacement

Postby GPSGuided » Sun 23 Feb, 2014 11:51 am

Yes, is the change to pull over design worth the weight saving? To me, a change from full zip to pull over would be a completely different product. Functionally they are very different.
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Re: montane air hardshell replacement

Postby wayno » Sun 23 Feb, 2014 11:54 am

Ent wrote:Back on track. I wonder if they have fixed the delamination issue that the Air suffers from. I like my Air but the bubbling between the layers means it is failing after only a few uses. The jacket otherwise is "strong" enough for track use and the occasional brushes with scrub.


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i remember cam saying that with macpac they had tracked down the delaminating material to being from a specific mill and they, had stopped using the faulty material.
hopefully other brands identified the cause of the issue and resolved it.
i've had no issues with my superfly xt
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