ZPacks Duplex or Sea to Summit Duo

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ZPacks Duplex or Sea to Summit Duo

Postby bluetotto » Sun 16 Nov, 2014 5:27 pm

Is it worth paying $250 - $300 is more for Cuben fiber?

Leaning towards S2S but planning to do some overnight snowshoeing this winter and not too sure about the water repellency of Duo....
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Re: ZPacks Duplex or Sea to Summit Duo

Postby icefest » Tue 18 Nov, 2014 6:22 am

I wouldn't say either of them are snow tents...

Cuben is only worth it if you want the lighter weight.
Theoretically, the duo should have less condensation.
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Re: ZPacks Duplex or Sea to Summit Duo

Postby Scottyk » Tue 18 Nov, 2014 6:26 am

icefest wrote:I wouldn't say either of them are snow tents...

Cuben is only worth it if you want the lighter weight.
Theoretically, the duo should have less condensation.

I agree with iciest on this one, I wouldn't want to rely on either of those tents above the snow line.

I don't think cuban is worth the extra money by the way
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Re: ZPacks Duplex or Sea to Summit Duo

Postby lorrainey100 » Tue 18 Nov, 2014 4:32 pm

I used to own a S2S duo and it suffered from condensation issues even with both doors open. I sent it back to the retailer.
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Re: ZPacks Duplex or Sea to Summit Duo [+MLD MID DUO?]

Postby bluetotto » Tue 18 Nov, 2014 8:35 pm

Thank you very much all. I've taken both off my list now ;)

Been using swag for car camping and Kathmandu 3 season for hikes and would like to upgrade and try winter walks up mt kosciuszko.

Would Mountain Laurel Design MidDuo + Bivy (OR Alpine?) work above the snow line or should I really commit to a 4 season tent considering that it'll be my first snow camping? I like idea of adding MLD innernet or Zpacks bug shelter for warmer months and finally getting rid of my cheap 3 season tent.

Recently tried DD tarp + S2S mosquito net and fall in love with minimalist set up. All other suggestions and recommendations are much appreciated.
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Re: ZPacks Duplex or Sea to Summit Duo

Postby Eljimberino » Tue 18 Nov, 2014 10:53 pm

Got any photos of your tarp/net combo bluetotto?


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Re: ZPacks Duplex or Sea to Summit Duo [+MLD MID DUO?]

Postby Scottyk » Wed 19 Nov, 2014 9:18 am

bluetotto wrote:Thank you very much all. I've taken both off my list now ;)

Been using swag for car camping and Kathmandu 3 season for hikes and would like to upgrade and try winter walks up mt kosciuszko.

Would Mountain Laurel Design MidDuo + Bivy (OR Alpine?) work above the snow line or should I really commit to a 4 season tent considering that it'll be my first snow camping? I like idea of adding MLD innernet or Zpacks bug shelter for warmer months and finally getting rid of my cheap 3 season tent.

Recently tried DD tarp + S2S mosquito net and fall in love with minimalist set up. All other suggestions and recommendations are much appreciated.

The conventional thinking on tents that can handle snow tend to be steep sided, not much flat area on top and usually have the fly extend all they way to the ground. Think Hilleberg Suolo or Macpac Olympus.
A pyramid type design would be ok in light snow fall but if a real dump came down with a good dose of wind I wouldn't choose one. I can see the snow would start to pile up on the flatter lower sections of the walls until the inner of the tent would be getting rather small.
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Re: ZPacks Duplex or Sea to Summit Duo

Postby Giddy_up » Wed 19 Nov, 2014 9:55 am

Scottyk wrote:
bluetotto wrote:Thank you very much all. I've taken both off my list now ;)

Been using swag for car camping and Kathmandu 3 season for hikes and would like to upgrade and try winter walks up mt kosciuszko.

Would Mountain Laurel Design MidDuo + Bivy (OR Alpine?) work above the snow line or should I really commit to a 4 season tent considering that it'll be my first snow camping? I like idea of adding MLD innernet or Zpacks bug shelter for warmer months and finally getting rid of my cheap 3 season tent.

Recently tried DD tarp + S2S mosquito net and fall in love with minimalist set up. All other suggestions and recommendations are much appreciated.

The conventional thinking on tents that can handle snow tend to be steep sided, not much flat area on top and usually have the fly extend all they way to the ground. Think Hilleberg Suolo or Macpac Olympus.
A pyramid type design would be ok in light snow fall but if a real dump came down with a good dose of wind I wouldn't choose one. I can see the snow would start to pile up on the flatter lower sections of the walls until the inner of the tent would be getting rather small.


Like this Scottyk??????

http://www.oneplanet.com.au/polar/polar-tents.html
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Re: ZPacks Duplex or Sea to Summit Duo

Postby Scottyk » Wed 19 Nov, 2014 11:03 am

A few differences between a MLD pyramid and a OP polar pyramid.
One has a central walking pole in the middle, the other has 48mm frame running down each corner
One is made of very light silnylon, the other is made of 8 oz canvas
The poles on each corner of the pyramid give the OP tent incredible strength, a single walking pole pyramid has none of the inherit strength this designs gives.
The fact that it has the same basic shape is about all they have in common.
The original poster was asking about super light pyramid tents and that is what I as referring to.
I don't think anyone can imply that because you can buy a polar tent that is a pyramid shape that a pyramid from MLD, z packs for similar is suitable for snow camping.
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Re: ZPacks Duplex or Sea to Summit Duo

Postby Giddy_up » Wed 19 Nov, 2014 11:30 am

Why would you think that they are not suitable. People all over the world use them in snow every day with great success. Me included!!!!!!!!!
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Re: ZPacks Duplex or Sea to Summit Duo

Postby Scottyk » Wed 19 Nov, 2014 11:45 am

If you think they are suitable for snow camping why not give the original poster some advice as to which models you like, what you have found works, what you have found doesn't and maybe the kind of conditions you have had yours in. You know, the reason he asked for advice.
Might be a bit more constructive than just trying to prove me wrong.
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Re: ZPacks Duplex or Sea to Summit Duo

Postby beean » Wed 19 Nov, 2014 12:30 pm

I've got a BearPawwd PyraTent, the silnylon version. I got the bug netting as well, so it works well for both summer and snowy camping.
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Re: ZPacks Duplex or Sea to Summit Duo

Postby Ellobuddha » Wed 19 Nov, 2014 1:18 pm

I have a Hilleberg Jannu that is bombproof for alpine conditions. Its very comforting laying up in something so strong.

I also have a MLD Duomid which I have just replaced with a HMG ultamid. I love the mids and would be more than happy in the snow. I would revert back to the hilleberg if Ithought it was going to be ballistic though.

Here is my Ultamid in a couple of different setups to give you ideas. They are very versatile for summer or winter use. The ability to change from groundsheet/bivy/inner or combos is excellent. Not to mention the Ultamis 2 is 500grams on its own. The weight saving is unreal.

The MLD duomid is excellent as well though not as much room as the Ultamid which is huge. Will be posting the duomid for sale shortly.

I think for versatility the mids are great and will withstand plenty. I havent camped in full snow in mine yet but the duomid has withstood some filty alpine weather with ease. If going to go backcountry for extended period or long distance I would probably revert back to the Hilleberg

Hope this is some use
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With cf groundsheet and superlight bivy (+440gr)
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With MLD innernet (+300gr)
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Re: ZPacks Duplex or Sea to Summit Duo

Postby bluetotto » Wed 19 Nov, 2014 7:31 pm

Scottyk wrote:A few differences between a MLD pyramid and a OP polar pyramid.
One has a central walking pole in the middle, the other has 48mm frame running down each corner
One is made of very light silnylon, the other is made of 8 oz canvas
The poles on each corner of the pyramid give the OP tent incredible strength, a single walking pole pyramid has none of the inherit strength this designs gives.
The fact that it has the same basic shape is about all they have in common.
The original poster was asking about super light pyramid tents and that is what I as referring to.
I don't think anyone can imply that because you can buy a polar tent that is a pyramid shape that a pyramid from MLD, z packs for similar is suitable for snow camping.


Just checked out OP polar and seem little too extreme for intended use.

Ellobudda's set up seems to be spot on and exactly what I am looking for ! I made up my mind and will go for the same MLD set up in silnylon
beean wrote:I've got a BearPawwd PyraTent, the silnylon version. I got the bug netting as well, so it works well for both summer and snowy camping.
based on beean's post but could you please let me know how much you want for your set up before I pull the trigger?

Ellobuddha wrote:I have a Hilleberg Jannu that is bombproof for alpine conditions. Its very comforting laying up in something so strong.

I also have a MLD Duomid which I have just replaced with a HMG ultamid. I love the mids and would be more than happy in the snow. I would revert back to the hilleberg if Ithought it was going to be ballistic though.

Here is my Ultamid in a couple of different setups to give you ideas. They are very versatile for summer or winter use. The ability to change from groundsheet/bivy/inner or combos is excellent. Not to mention the Ultamis 2 is 500grams on its own. The weight saving is unreal.

The MLD duomid is excellent as well though not as much room as the Ultamid which is huge. Will be posting the duomid for sale shortly.

I think for versatility the mids are great and will withstand plenty. I havent camped in full snow in mine yet but the duomid has withstood some filty alpine weather with ease. If going to go backcountry for extended period or long distance I would probably revert back to the Hilleberg

Hope this is some use


Thanks giddy up for the photo and reaffirming it's suitable for snow camping . Can wait until winter !

Giddy_up wrote:Why would you think that they are not suitable. People all over the world use them in snow every day with great success. Me included!!!!!!!!!
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Re: ZPacks Duplex or Sea to Summit Duo

Postby Franco » Wed 19 Nov, 2014 8:08 pm

You can pitch any tent ON snow.
Most don't do all that well once it starts snowing.
For reference, that One Planet tent that folk keep bringing up is a 30 kg shelter (for two or three) with 2" thick poles and, as already mentioned, it has 4 of them not a solo less than half inch pole as used by the tents discussed here.
There is absolutely nothing that is offered as a pyramid shaped backpacking tent that can be compared with it.
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Re: ZPacks Duplex or Sea to Summit Duo

Postby Ellobuddha » Wed 19 Nov, 2014 8:39 pm

Found the duomid photos - with the bearpaw dual innernet
image.jpg

image.jpg


At a"popular" site at Wilkinsons Creek behind Kozi just before winter last year. Condensation levels were high, nearly totally fogged in but with a little breeze and sides up about 3 inches it was great. Used a groundsheet and tyvek 1443 bag cover from Terra Rosa - perfect
image.jpg



And just to add to the confusion, heres the Jannu on a perfect day.
image.jpg
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Re: ZPacks Duplex or Sea to Summit Duo

Postby Franco » Thu 20 Nov, 2014 8:33 am

Here is an extreme example of the difference between 'can be set up on snow' and 'does it take a snow fall' or as in this case a snow storm.

First PLEASE if you know this tent DO NOT POST the name because it is a 3 season shelter not designed for this stuff.
Now, this is one of the photos from the product page :
Image
this is exactly the same tent in the same location, after a storm hit the spot (no this photo is not from the product page) :
Image
the would be tent user had to leave the tent because it became unsafe to be there and although the poles did not break both were bent out of shape and the shelter was crushed by snow .
But in fine weather you can use it on snow.
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Re: ZPacks Duplex or Sea to Summit Duo

Postby Orion » Thu 20 Nov, 2014 9:09 am

I've spent nights in a megamid while it snowed. The key is to dig in. In order to fit 3 or 4 people inside you need to dig anyway. It's a tradeoff, the digging versus a shelter that can handle more wind exposure.

Here's a photo from a weeklong trip where it snowed each night, although never more than about 30cm at a time. This is at about 3500m. There were 4 of us who comfortably shared the megamid. The skiing was perfect.

Image
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Re: ZPacks Duplex or Sea to Summit Duo

Postby Moondog55 » Thu 20 Nov, 2014 9:18 am

Prime example of poor tent placement tho Franco.
Even when well set-up a tipi will require getting out sometimes and shoveling snow away and I always use a bivvy bag in snow; especially when in a single skin shelter.
My experiences over the last 3 seasons tell me that pole strength is the limiting factor in single pole 'Mids
Like Orion, I used my Megamid for many years and until age caught up with my shelter it weathered some fairly gnarly storms. I would say that the supplied poles with most pyramid tents is marginal for the more extreme conditions
Ve are too soon old und too late schmart
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Re: ZPacks Duplex or Sea to Summit Duo

Postby Franco » Thu 20 Nov, 2014 9:52 am

"I would say that the supplied poles with most pyramid tents is marginal for the more extreme conditions"
yes, true.
I see more reports about bent/broken poles than fabric failure.
However when a pole fails , the shelter fails.
Of course we (users) want the lightest weight and smallest packed size.
When one pole has to hold up several square meters of fabric under snow or wind load , it better be strong.
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Re: ZPacks Duplex or Sea to Summit Duo

Postby Moondog55 » Thu 20 Nov, 2014 10:09 am

Unfortunately in my case when the pole snapped the resultant jagged edges left a big [ although repairable] hole in the Megamid. If this had been my only shelter I would have had to cancel the trip and come home.
I think this is something that 'Mid uses should become aware of and where a DIY carbon fiber solution would be worthwhile. The result how-ever would not be low bulk even if very lightweight. especially if the pole was also needing to be height adjustable
Ve are too soon old und too late schmart
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Re: ZPacks Duplex or Sea to Summit Duo

Postby Orion » Thu 20 Nov, 2014 10:35 am

I've never used that big clunky pole that came with my megamid. Rather, ski poles screwed together or with an extension. On that trip I mentioned we used four ski poles, two sets screwed together (avalanche style ski poles) and arranged as an inverted "V".

I never worried about the poles breaking. Snow can easily be knocked off the tent and of course requires some shoveling eventually, just like any tent. Don't set up your tent where a drift will bury it. Wind is a bigger problem. Pyramid tents aren't designed for dealing with high winds. So start digging...
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Re: ZPacks Duplex or Sea to Summit Duo

Postby Moondog55 » Thu 20 Nov, 2014 11:15 am

Well if sharing and you both have super extendable ski poles I'd be doing that too.
Altho I have been advised that a single larger diameter vertical pole is stronger than a large"A" if the A poles are on the slender size
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Re: ZPacks Duplex or Sea to Summit Duo

Postby Orion » Thu 20 Nov, 2014 11:21 am

Moondog55 wrote:I have been advised that a single larger diameter vertical pole is stronger than a large"A" if the A poles are on the slender size


Okay, if you say so. I don't know how to do that calculation.
We did the "A" frame just to make the interior a little friendlier.

And man oh man did we have a ton of frozen condensation every morning!
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Re: ZPacks Duplex or Sea to Summit Duo

Postby Moondog55 » Thu 20 Nov, 2014 11:24 am

Yes that model Megamid is very poorly vented. That information was given years ago when I was looking at Vango tents in Scotland and queried the large size of the A poles as against the single pole then available for the Force 10
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Re: ZPacks Duplex or Sea to Summit Duo

Postby Franco » Thu 20 Nov, 2014 11:37 am

"Pyramid tents aren't designed for dealing with high winds"
And here is where the Scott Polar pyramid is a different beast.
It is designed not only to withstand strong winds but also to be set up in strong winds.
A lot of tents get damaged during the set up and here is the tricky part with the multi pole semi geodesic design.
Once up they shed wind well, however setting them up in strong winds can be really difficult.

BTW, those Scott tents relay a lot not only on those four massive 5cm thick poles but also on either having them about a foot in the snow (peg like)and/ or having a pile of snow over the valances.
Yet in strong winds those also can fail.
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Re: ZPacks Duplex or Sea to Summit Duo

Postby Giddy_up » Thu 20 Nov, 2014 11:48 am

The only thing I would add to this very good discussion is the the fact that, if using a "mid", ensure that your corner pegs or dead men are bomb proof. If you lose a corner guy in a storm in a "mid" you will lose the whole tent.
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Re: ZPacks Duplex or Sea to Summit Duo

Postby bluetotto » Sun 23 Nov, 2014 11:50 pm

Hi,

Eljimberino wrote:Got any photos of your tarp/net combo bluetotto?


Ride On


Few pics of DD Tarp 3 x 3 set up from this weekend. $65 from Jeff's touring gear.
I do typical A frame set up with mosquito net suspended from hiking poles for hot buggy nights.
It was bit windy and went with this set up and glad I did cause I woke up to a 5am thunder storm this morning.

Scored Eulobudda's MLD DuoMid + Bearpaw set up at a shady ;) carpark rendezvous at Kozi today (Thanks Eulobudda) and very impressed with design and quality.(Pic posted by Eulobudda above) and suggest you go with one of the recommendations here over this set up if you are considering tarp/net combo.
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