New to bushwalking/ultralight, please comment

[Kearnzo]

Hello Bushwalkers,

My name is Chris, my wife and I are planning to do the great north walk (Newcastle to Sydney as we live in Newcastle) in late September this year so I've been researching for a few weeks now and decided a comfortable ultralight pack would be great for us. We love camping and bushwalking but haven't done any overnighters and only have car-camping gear currently.
I have really appreciated all the wisdom I've gained on gear from this forum already, so thank you. I thought some of you would enjoy commenting on my proposed gear and plans.

We're both average height, slim, in our 20's, moderately fit.

Immediate plans: Great North Walk, near-coastal NSW, lower gloucester.
Future plans: Washpool/gibraltar range NP NSW, Barrington tops, overland track Tas.

Outline of a gear list: https://www.geargrams.com/list?id=32789
- Any glaring omissions? (just haven't researched the stuff with no description)
- Happy to buy second hand gear (posted in Market, can’t PM yet)

The things i have researched so far, the bigger gear:
Tarp tent silpoly Terrarosagear 2*3m, $215, 315g. Doesn't sag when wet, slight stretch to silpoly, more room than a tent.
+ Sea to summit escapist bug net, Tyvek groundsheet
- Seam sealed, 12 point tie out, will probably NOT be using trekking poles.
- Never used a tarp before, have a basic theoretical knowledge, will try out on a weekend or two before the multi-day walk.
- Can't bring myself to spend the cash on Cuben fibre and silpoly seems adequate
- Are tarps just a bad idea in colder places like Tasmania?

Zpacks Arc Blast reg 60L $325 601g 60L * 2 - Largely waterproof, light, back support, large mesh back area, water bottle side pocket, hip belt pocket
- VS zpacks zero with mesh back, hip belt, and 1x side pocket for water bottle.
- I’m leaning towards the Arc Blast based on the maximum pack weight of 18kg ( Zero’s 9kg probably won't cut it for the GNW/10day+ walks unless we get a food drop)
- May get 1 of each
- Wilderness threadworks bags seem too heavy, though probably more durable…
- Thoughts on pack size in litres and max weight for 14 day trips?
- What would you buy in my situation?

Sea to summit Ember I (or II) down quilt, comfort range 4-10 degrees,
- Hardest decision for me, I'd love a quilt that we could be comfortable in all environments throughout Australia.
- I would like something very similar to Enlightened Equipment revelation (can fully flatten out i.e. really become a quilt, draw cords top and bottom, 900+ loft down, horizontal foot baffles not sewn through, foot box zipper increasing versatility)
- Additional desired make-believe quality: easy ability to add/remove down to change the rating based on destination. However that's probably too tedious and the baffle height changes too much between temperature ratings.
- I don't have time to ‘MYOG’ this year, otherwise I'd probably get a thru-hiker kit and make quilts revelation-like.
- My wife does sleep colder generally by maybe 3-5 degrees, however i tend to get colder before bed (hands and feet become icicles even in cool weather) and take longer to warm up, then i'll throw off half my covers during the night.
- Mike’s quilts have some great features but the closed footbox points me away from it
- Obviously no one answer, but what would you buy if you were in my situation?
- What temperature rating would accommodate the coldest regions of Australia as part of a good sleeping system (high R-rating on pad, thermals, warm jacket, etc)?

Sea to Summit Comfort Light Insulated Sleeping Mat
- also considering uninsulated STS, thermarest neoair Xlite, thermarest Xtherm
- Thermarest is lighter, but more expensive, and is generally rated better for other minor reasons
- Any strong opinions? What would you get?

Rain jacket:
- Marmot Precip

Rain pants
- When are these necessary in Australia?

Stove Kovea titanium supalight stove 60g, can simmer, use in tarp.
- Research suggests 45g gas use/day for 2 people so 450g gas canister required. Will use wood fires to conserve fuel when able

b]Outline of a gear list: https://www.geargrams.com/list?id=32789
- Any glaring omissions?[/b] (just haven't researched the stuff with no description)
- Happy to buy second hand gear (posted in Market, can’t PM yet)

Thankful already,

Chris

[north-north-west]

Only thing I'm going to comment on is the quilt. There is no single quilt/sleeping bag that will work from Queensland to WA to Tassie. And a 4c quilt is nowhere near enough for the OT or the Centre. Down here you want something that will keep you comfy down to -5 at the least (even in summer, because you never know when you're going to get a sudden cold snap), and -10 if you're going to be walking in the winter. You might be lucky enough to get away with it in summer but along with the shelter it's the last area where you want to compromise purely due to weight.

Mike can do a drawstring foot on his quilts. But you (and more so your wife) would need to add thermals plus down jacket and pants and booties to be anywhere near comfortable in the StS here in cooler conditions.

[damoprz]

Checkout the ULA Ohm 2.0 or Circuit, GG Mariposa, Granite Gear Crown VC, Osprey Exos 58 for good packs that are significantly cheaper. I don't like to buy a pack that I can't try on, unfortunately it is hard in Aus.

[Tortoise]

G'day Chris, and welcome to the forum.

A few comments:

1. Rain pants - I never walk without them in the mountains in Tassie - but often take them elsewhere as well. First experience was doing the OLT one January, and involved a brush with hypothermia due to inadequate rain jacket and lack of rain pants. A big thing is that they keep out the wind. Torrential rain + strong wind = a big problem. Some people just use thermals/shorts/gaiters, which I've tried but I still got cold. If it's likely to be cold all day, I just wear thermals under the rain pants.

2. Check out the sleep system well before you buy. I think some lightweight mats won't work well with a quilt, as the quilt relies on the warmth of the mat underneath, and some light weight mats rely on warmth from the sleeping bag when the down is allowed to loft in depressions/gaps in the mat.
I LOVE my Xtherm and my quilt. But the Xtherm would be overkill for the GNW and a lot of other NSW walks. Handy for Barrington tops, depending on the season. I think we had about -6C there one autumn night. As NNW said, it's not really possible to get one system that's ideal for widely diverse conditions, but the layering does help.

3. Stove: When I went lighter weight, one of the first things that changed was my cooking. I now just rehydrate meals (bring to boil, and let the pot sit in a pot cosy for 5 - 10 mins), so no simmering is needed. I don't have to carry nearly as much fuel these days.

4. Light weight packs: I seem to be very difficult to fit, with a dodgy back. But I've bought 3 light weight packs, and I ended up selling 2 of them. The one I kept (GoLite Pinnacle) I use mainly for travelling (cinched in, works as cabin baggage; let out, I have a big pack to use while I'm away. i have used it for a 3 day walk, but really, my 1.6kg Berghaus pack is more comfy, so I tend to use that for all my walks now. I think my back prefers a framed pack. So if you possibly can try on the pack (or a similar one) before you buy, then make the most of it.

All the best as you dive into the wonderful world of multi-day walks.

[damoprz]

The Neo-Air Xlite is a really good pad, light (get a small and rest your feet on your pack), comfortable and surprisingly durable. You can cut a foam pad to size to stretch it down to slightly lower temperatures too.

[Chezza]

A flat tarp is probably not the best idea if it could be cold, wet and windy. It is certainly not impossible to use, but get some experience with it first. It will be colder and harder to keep dry than a double-wall tent. If you're not using trekking poles, you're dependent on finding trees which may be hard to find in some alpine areas. Lastly, silpoly should be fine, but it has one significant disadvantage relative to silnylon - polyester doesn't have the best elastic recovery, which means if you stretch it particularly hard it may develop permanent stretch around the tie-outs. With cuben and silnylon you can get away with being heavy-handed with your linelocs to make up for bad staking geometry, but I don't think polyester will take that sort of treatment forever. On the plus side, it doesn't stretch when wet, and may well be stronger than a silnylon tarp of the same weight in the wet (depending on actual tenacity yarns used, fabric weave, and quality of coating).

I'd look elsewhere than the Arc Blast, as other have suggested. It isn't the most durable or comfortable thing going around, although the weight is seductive. The missus has both this and the Katabatic Helios 55 in the V40 x-pac material. I think the Katabatic in the V40 fabric is 300g heavier than the Arc Blast, but it is much more comfortable and durable. If you do have your heart set on an Arc Blast 60, I have one in a medium torso that I want to offload, so drop me a PM.

Mike does open footboxes as well. Definitely buy from him rather than S2S.

Rain pants are a good idea if windy and wet conditions below say 5-10 degrees are possible. Think spraining an ankle in Cradle Cirque, and having strong winds and rain. It may be just the Overland Track, but at least one person has died of hypothermia in that spot in the middle of December.

[undercling-mike]

I'll just chime in to confirm that fully opening footboxes are now an option with my quilts. Temp rating is always a hard choice, maybe plan for comfort at the expected or typical low temperatures for the colder places you want to go and plan to boost the rating with insulated clothing (or simply use at more like the limit rating) if there is a cold snap.

On the topic of sleeping pads I think for sure one with an R-rating of 3 or over is the best bet for 3 season use and something close to 5 or better for winter. The uninsulated pads (R ~ 0.7) are pretty much a summer only option.

[Kearnzo]

Thank you North North West, Tortoise, Damoprz, and Chezza for you advice and welcome. This really is a good forum.

Quilt: After looking at his topic properly and seeing his pictures I will definitely contact Mike about his drawcord/zippered footbox style.

Pad: The neoair xlite small is sounding good.
I will certainly go for the lighter/less warm options for my sleeping system and build up to the warmer options.

Pack: I think my heart is still set on the arc blast 60L. Medium is right for me. I’ll contact you once I’ve decided. I’ll probably get a more comfortable pack for my wife though! Any Novocastrians have an arc blast or heavier backpack I could try on?

Tarp: Still unsure about silpoly vs silnylon but in conversation with terrarosagear.

Rain pants shall be bought. Just had to hear the key words – cold, windy, wet, hypothermia, and died. I’ll need them at some point if not the GNW.

Thanks for the cooking tip, I haven’t looked into it much yet.

Chris

[Tortoise]

Re the rain pants - for decades I used cheapish light ones - Rainbird or equivalent - and was happy with them. Got a little damp from sweat, but not bad, and I still use them on some walks. I only got some heavier duty pants when I started doing a lot more off track stuff and rock scrambling.

[north-north-west]

:)
Re the rain pants - for decades I used cheapish light ones - Rainbird or equivalent - and was happy with them. Got a little damp from sweat, but not bad, and I still use them on some walks. I only got some heavier duty pants when I started doing a lot more off track stuff and rock scrambling.

Yeah, they're perfectly adequate if you're doing tracked walks. I took an old pair into the Western Arthurs first time through and while it was their last hoorah, they got me there and back.

[drewmac]

Hi there,

I run with some similar gear.
Some notes below and comments, hope it helps.

Tarp
Zpacks cuben tarp, S2S Nano Double net - the lightweight one, tyvek base, the heavy tyvek from Zpacks.
I sewed the tyvek to the net and put in some loops on the inside of the tarp to hang it.
Opens only at front, about to put a zip on front edge, will add 50g maybe.
My tarp is the larger rectangle, 2.6 x 3 I think, gives good coverage and protection in rain.
Use my hike poles, not always trees around where you want them.
Total weight is around 750g including pegs, lightweight ti ones, not incl my poles.

Comment?
Not sure this would cut it in Tassie.
Used this set up in NSW Snowies through summer, Vic Alps in April and I live in Qld which it is ideal for.
But about as light as you can do, room for 2.
I do carry a poncho thing which can act as a porch for my tarp if required in rain and give me dry entry & cooking area out front.
I am planning OT and was looking at a Tarptent option, not taking the tarp.

Pack
Zpacks blast 52 lt, 500g
Love it, done many 15 - 20km days, no problem, maybe it just suits me.
Yes you have to look after them, not drag them around etc, having said that I am not fanatical though.
My gear for multi days with all incl food & water is around 13 - 15 kgs.
Work on minimal stuff, all lightweight gear.

Stove
Kovea spider, 17g plus the lighter I think
I use alfoil for a screen, folded at edges for a bit of strength, weight? hardly any
Underneath the stove use a foil stove burner ring thing to protect ground, contain heat.
Pots are Companion pro nano duo set, I only take 2 though on my own, around 250g for the 2.

My tarp
This was at Bogong at Easter.

[Mark F]

After a lot of experimentation, pushing things to the lowest weight and then dialing back a little for comfort I have a 3 seasons base weight of between 4.2- 4.9 Kg (including 700-900 g of camera, phone, SPOT, battery pack) leading to a pack of less than 10 Kg before water for trips up to 7-8 days. Can I suggest thinking about your gear in a systems approach. For example your sleeping system or cooking system etc and whether you can either avoid overlap (2 items doing largely the same job) or finding items that can do multiple tasks. For instance, I use 4 sections of a Thermarest Z mat (100 grams) as a stiffener back for my Laufbursche frameless pack (465 grams), sit mat and sleeping pad extender allowing me you use a short inflatable (saves 120 grams over a regular). So I have saved 20 grams plus more on the pack if it had to have a more rigid back, and gained an effectively weightless sit mat.

Similarly with your cooking set up consider how you want to cook (boil water, simmer stuff, gourmet), convenience (turn knob and light, fiddle with measuring fuel etc), fuel availability etc. Now you have the parameters to develop your cookset. My 3 seasons set up (BRS3000 gas stove, 900ml Ti pot, cozy, lighter, windscreen and stuff sack) is 150 grams for winter it blows out to 215 grams with a Caffin gas stove. I also carry a mug but could live without.

Shelter - where will you camp? Insects? Personally I tried a flat tarp and net inner (good for sheltered conditions) but felt happier and was far more comfortable in some fairly violent storms in more exposed mountain terrain using a ZPacks Hexamid Plus and inner now swapped for a Solplex (+50 grams). For more extreme conditions I have a tent that weighs about 1kg.

Carrying - Because I carry so little weight the frameless Laufbursche with the sit mat back is wonderfully comfortable. I am sure carrying extra weight I would want something more.

Clothing - fine tune your layering system. You shouldn't need to carry more than 1 to 1.5 kg of clothing for 3 seasons walking in say southern NSW (Budawangs, Snowies, Blue Mountains). I assume you will wear a light top and pants and a sun hat, with all other clothing carried until needed. My regular system adds a 100 weight fleece as a mid layer (250g), wind shirt (80g), rain jacket (170g) and a down jacket for camp (175g). I have a pair of polypro long johns (140g) for either walking or sleeping plus a polypro top, spare pair of socks, fleece beanie and waterproof overmitts. In warmer, low land conditions some of these items may be omitted with waterproof pants added for above treeline.

[robert allison]

from what you've said in your post your contradicting yourself a little bit. in your post your talking about tarps and arcblasts but then you are worried about the 9 kg limit. the most important thing is to get your small stuff light first. for example everything except food/big 3 should be under 1.5kg. this means that when you add in your big 3 which from the stuff your looking at will be around 2.5kg your base wight is only 4kg. furthermore irrespective of how much food you carry you won't go over 9kg.

Advice on gear:
i recently bought a tarptent protrail which i believe is a massive improvement over a basic tarp. (also it now comes in a 2person). the advantages of a pro trail is that it can handle some pretty nasty weather while still weighing only 700g which is good for aussie alps.

you also asked about quilts. i own a enlightened equipment reveltaion (20 degree f). its a great quilt which i defiantly recommend. ALSO WHY 900+ loft thats some serious money for next to no gains.

just a side note its a shame to go ultralight using a gas stove. metho is still lighter and gives you the purist feel.

on sleeping mats don't be fooled into thinking you will die without a neoair.

a very controversial topic is weather gear. 90% of the time i go out with just an umbrella. I've found that even when hailing i choose not to wear rain pants and whenever i put a rain jacket on my day is made miserable due to sweat. however i always check weather before.

it might seem horrific to you but my hiking diet revolves around deb (instant potato) this is due to it having the highest kj/g of any carbohydrate. i personally love it with salmon sachets you can buy at supermarket and currently my breakfast is deb mixed with milk powder.


just saying but ultra lighting isn't really as good as it sounds. its great on trail but takes a lot of work before you go.

[Aushiker]

the most important thing is to get your small stuff light first. for example everything except food/big 3 should be under 1.5kg. this means that when you add in your big 3 which from the stuff your looking at will be around 2.5kg your base wight is only 4kg.

Now that is a challenge worth trying to take on

[Mark F]

Many people on the journey of lightening their packs overshoot their comfort zone which is a useful learning experience. Over time they add back in a few upgrades and additional items to achieve a set of gear that maximises their enjoyment and safety - ultimately that is the aim. For me I have added back about 500g from my minimum setup of 1,750g (Big 4 - pack, tent, sleeping bag, mat). In my sleeping setup I have upgraded my NeoAir Xlite short for a Trekker Torso for the extra width (+165g) and added in an Exped UL pillow (+60g) plus a few other tweaks. Don't underestimate the importance of a good night's sleep - old hips and foam mats are not compatible.

[GPSGuided]

Bugger Mark! With all the talk in this thread, I finally forced myself to calculate my 'Big 4' (Tent - with footprint, Pack, Bag, Mat - with pillow/pump) and it's 3835g. Ouch! How am I to get it all down to your (with luxury) 2250g? But I do have an Aarn pack and a real TT Moment DW tent in there.

[Mark F]

I am sure Aarn packs are great if you are carrying 15kg or more but once you get below about 8kg it value proposition ceases - they are just 1 to 2 kg of extra weight compared to a good frameless pack or something like a Zpacks Arc Blast. If I was not happy with my current pack I would go to an Arc Blast but prefer frameless for airline travel.

No foot print with the tent. I would rather patch the floor if necessary (never had to do it). Generally in Australia we are not pitching on bare rock and a bit of care cleaning the ground of rocks and sharp objects has so far worked for me.

Just so you can see I am not fudging things by omitting necessary items or using very fragile gear:

Minimum
617g Laufburche Huckepack (210 Dyneema fabric) + foam back pad + cuben pack liner
442g ZPacks Hexamid Plus + SMD Serenity net inner (10 pegs, no poles - walking pole to pitch)
480g Western Mountaineer Highlite - stuff sac as pillow
213g NeoAir XLite Short
1,752g

This could drop another 250g if I chose to replace the SMD inner with a polycro ground sheet, carry minimal pegs and omit the pack liner.

Current
617g Laufburche Huckepack (Dyneema) + foam pad + cuben pack liner
500g Zpacks Solplex (12 pegs, no poles - walking pole to pitch)
590g MYOG down quilt (used to around freezing) - I plan to build a new one at around 500g using 10d fabric.
380g Thermarest Trekker Torso
58g Exped UL pillow with strap to connect to pad
2,145g

The other 100g added back in is a Ti mug, lid and cozy and small cutting board. This gives a gas cook set + water purification (Steripen) and water storage for 450g.

A good layering system has you carrying about 1kg of clothing for warmth and rain protection assuming you are wearing shorts and base layer.

[GPSGuided]

Thanks for sharing your thoughts and method there Mark. I agree that the easiest weight reduction would be with a switch to ZPack Arc Blast, an immediate drop of 800-900g from my existing Aarn setup, taking me into the 3000g base weight level. Ummm... Tempting if the Arc Blast can be as comfortable on me as for many others. You are absolutely right, with continuing weight reduction, the value of an Aarn setup is diminished when one gets down under and around the 8kg level.

[Aushiker]

Just started playing around with LighterPack and put my current Big 3 (bikepacking setup) in and scared myself silly I have some planned changes coming up:

(1) Moving on the Tarptent Scarp 1. Will probably replace it with a ZPacks Altaplex so that will reduce my weight by ~ 800+ grams
(2) Exped pump pillow may have to go to be replaced by a much lighter pillow (damn I like that pillow too)
(3) The Sea to Summit silk liner will need to be either done away with or replaced with a light lighter liner.

mmm if I can get the Big 3 sub 2 kg I think that will be okay, no?

[Strider]

There is a WTB post for a Scarp 1 in the Market forum...

Sent from my SM-N9005 using Tapatalk

[Aushiker]

There is a WTB post for a Scarp 1 in the Market forum...

Thanks for the heads-up.