Pegs: Stake your Claims ...

A place to chat about gear and the philosphy of ultralight. Ultralight bushwalking or backpacking focuses on carrying the lightest and simplest kit. There is still a good focus on safety and skill.
Forum rules
Ultralight Bushwalking/backpacking is about more than just gear lists. Ultralight walkers carefully consider gear based on the environment they are entering, the weather forecast, their own skill, other people in the group. Gear and systems are tested and tweaked.
If you are new to this area then welcome - Please remember that although the same ultralight philosophy can be used in all environments that the specific gear and skill required will vary greatly. It is very dangerous to assume that you can just copy someone else's gear list, but you are encouraged to ask questions, learn and start reducing the pack weight and enjoying the freedom that comes.

Common words
Base pack backpacking the mass of the backpack and the gear inside - not including consumables such as food, water and fuel
light backpacking base weight less than 9.1kg
ultralight backpacking base weight less than 4.5kg
super-ultralight backpacking base weight less than 2.3kg
extreme-ultralight backpacking base weight less than 1.4kg

Re: Pegs: Stake your Claims ...

Postby Mark F » Tue 19 Sep, 2017 1:21 pm

slparker wrote:A way of testing this theory would be to drive in a peg at 180 degrees to the direction of pull of the guyline to see how well friction prevents extraction. I have never tried it but I assume that it doesn't work.


That method is called peg extraction. I use it every time I want to remove a peg - by far the easiest method. It has worked almost perfectly for over 50 years. :)
"Perfection is attained not when there is nothing more to add, but when there is nothing more to remove".
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Re: Pegs: Stake your Claims ...

Postby Strider » Tue 19 Sep, 2017 4:25 pm

slparker wrote:A way of testing this theory would be to drive in a peg at 180 degrees to the direction of pull of the guyline

Do you mean 90 degrees? 180 degrees would be underground?


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Re: Pegs: Stake your Claims ...

Postby slparker » Tue 19 Sep, 2017 4:46 pm

Strider wrote:
slparker wrote:A way of testing this theory would be to drive in a peg at 180 degrees to the direction of pull of the guyline

Do you mean 90 degrees? 180 degrees would be underground?


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perhaps 0 degree makes more sense. on the same axis as the guyline vector of traction.
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Re: Pegs: Stake your Claims ...

Postby ofuros » Wed 20 Sep, 2017 6:09 am

Good ol' titanium 'V' stakes cover me for most ground conditions (no cutouts so they're easy to clean) with a couple of Shepherd hooks thrown in to add some versatility.
If I'm hammocking on a tree'd summit where there's not a lot of soil to anchor in, I'll tie off to rocks, branches & bushes.
Mountains view are good for my soul...& getting to them is good for my waistline !
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Re: Pegs: Stake your Claims ...

Postby jeremyw » Tue 03 Oct, 2017 9:38 pm

Has anyone had much luck with these carbon fiber pegs from aliexpress? https://www.aliexpress.com/item/Extreme ... 67885.html

5.8g hard to beat but not really sure about the strength, looks closer to width of eastons but less weight than the useless "ultralight" titanium skewer ones.
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Re: Pegs: Stake your Claims ...

Postby Neo » Mon 30 Apr, 2018 4:47 pm

RE how to place your pegs, I observe:

Guy line should be long enough and around 45° to the tent;
Peg should be at 90° to the guy line.

Possibly what people mean when they say pegs at 45° as that's how it looks at the peg, but it's 90 in relation to the string.
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Re: Pegs: Stake your Claims ...

Postby wildwanderer » Sun 02 Dec, 2018 9:20 am

Thoughts on these....

Ti Spiral pegs.... 15 cm long ultralight at 5.6 grams each.
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/Natureh ... 68213.html
(note its the spiral peg shown on the webpage not the heavier nail peg which is also shown)

Will they have sufficent holding power in dirt with a grass overlay? Ideally up to alpine wind 70-90km/h gusts

Will have Y shape long pegs (MSR Hedgehogs) for guy lines but I want something lighter to peg down the main part of the tent.
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Re: Pegs: Stake your Claims ...

Postby Franco » Sun 02 Dec, 2018 11:34 am

Neo wrote:RE how to place your pegs, I observe:

Guy line should be long enough and around 45° to the tent;
Peg should be at 90° to the guy line.

Possibly what people mean when they say pegs at 45° as that's how it looks at the peg, but it's 90 in relation to the string.


yes :
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Re: Pegs: Stake your Claims ...

Postby Neo » Sun 02 Dec, 2018 3:37 pm

Nailed it Franco! Both 90&45!!!
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Re: Pegs: Stake your Claims ...

Postby Franco » Sun 02 Dec, 2018 7:12 pm

I had that exact problem myself.
Apparently saying a different thing but just looking at it from a different angle.
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Re: Pegs: Stake your Claims ...

Postby ribuck » Tue 04 Dec, 2018 9:02 pm

90&45 is sub-optimal. If the peg moves even a little, the angle between guyline and peg becomes less than 90 degrees, and the guyline will make the peg work loose.

It's much better to use something like 100&35. Then, the guyline is always trying to drive the peg into the ground.
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Re: Pegs: Stake your Claims ...

Postby Neo » Tue 04 Dec, 2018 10:03 pm

Hmm, interesting
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Re: Pegs: Stake your Claims ...

Postby Orion » Wed 05 Dec, 2018 3:34 am

Image

This is more or less what I've always done. It seems intuitive.

But can anyone point to actual tests that show this to be the optimal angle? I found sources on the internet that refer to this orientation as the "old" way and that the peg should be driven straight into the ground (90°) with the guyline at a 45° angle to vertical. One source claimed that experiments showed that this is the strongest way but didn't provide any source reference.

Image


There is an old BPL article on tent peg testing (behind a paywall), but the accompanying discussion suggests that the author of the article did not explore different angles.

It's probably complicated and may depend on soil/sand/snow/ice as well as peg type. But it would be interesting to read that someone tried to (ahem) nail down the variables.
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Re: Pegs: Stake your Claims ...

Postby Mark F » Wed 05 Dec, 2018 7:57 am

Driving the peg in perpendicularly to the ground allows the guy to exert an upward force which may allow the peg to work its way out especially in gusty conditions. When the peg is at 90 degrees to the guy line then the upward force is zero. The possible benefit of the driving the peg perpendicularly to the ground is that the end section of the peg may embed in more compact soil but this will depend on the soil profile. At 45 degrees a 15cm peg will embed to a vertical depth of 10.6cm. If the guy is at 30 degrees to the ground surface then the vertical depth will be 13cm. The answer is of course "it depends" - main determinant is the soil profile.

Personally I place my pegs at 90 degrees to the guy line and have rarely have any problems. If the placement is a bit problematic then a rock on top does the trick.
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Re: Pegs: Stake your Claims ...

Postby Orion » Wed 05 Dec, 2018 11:27 am

Yes, of course, that is the intuitive part. I already had that. I was looking for empirical evidence. As an analogy, some years ago tests showed the ice screws should be placed at 90° instead of angled upward. That ran counter to just about everybody's intuition.

Apparently driving stakes straight in works best in at least certain applications; I couldn't find the sources. But from what I read I think it was with very large tent structures, like for circuses. Perhaps it doesn't scale down to little tent pegs.
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Re: Pegs: Stake your Claims ...

Postby Lamont » Wed 05 Dec, 2018 3:41 pm

Someone on reddtUL linked a council (US from memory) document recently about pegs needing to be vertical to meet council regulations.
The document reference was to large gazebo/large marquee type things.
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Re: Pegs: Stake your Claims ...

Postby Neo » Thu 06 Dec, 2018 5:13 pm

For massive pegs like a circus tent or concert marque bashed in with a sledge hammer, vertical or near vertical would be the easiest also.

I find with my STS 3x3 tarp any flap and it will work loose in decent winds. Different ground types, so far sand/snow pegs have been the most reliable but I am suspicious of it's mini linelocs slipping. May have to update the strings by a millimetre me thinks!
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Re: Pegs: Stake your Claims ...

Postby Orion » Fri 07 Dec, 2018 11:42 am

Neo wrote:...I am suspicious of it's mini linelocs slipping. May have to update the strings by a millimetre me thinks!


I've used mini linelocs for guying tents/tarps with the thinnest diameter cords I own: 1.25mm dyneema and 1.5mm nylon. They don't slip.

But it should be easy enough to figure out if your lines are slipping for some reason. Use a permanent marker or some tape or something.
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