Sodium tablets

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Sodium tablets

Postby gbagua » Wed 04 Jan, 2017 4:46 pm

Do Chemists stock these? Water alone isn't enough when you start to really dehidrate yourself.

Why drinking water alone is not enough:

http://blog.liftopia.com/hydration-tips ... ing-water/

I wish I started using this supplement before when hiking in this hot and country (Queensland especifically) of ours. Always came home exhausted after one of those gruelling hikes in Mt. Barney.
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Re: Sodium tablets

Postby oldpiscator » Wed 04 Jan, 2017 4:51 pm

You know what sodium supplements are don't you ?
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Re: Sodium tablets

Postby Moondog55 » Wed 04 Jan, 2017 5:30 pm

Just use extra salt in your cooking or better yet Lite salt
Ve are too soon old und too late schmart
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Re: Sodium tablets

Postby CasualNerd » Wed 04 Jan, 2017 5:46 pm

I use these, but they are quite expensive for what's essentially 0.6gm of salt pressed into a tablet. Cheaper than continually drinking electrolyte tablets and very convenient. If you use electrolyte drinks anyway add a pinch of table salt to those as they're generally sweet enough you won't taste it for a fraction of the cost.

http://www.chemistwarehouse.com.au/buy/ ... 00-Tablets

On a really hot day I can't seem to get enough salt in to replace what I lose in sweat and I would say they're invaluable, but everyone's different.
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Re: Sodium tablets

Postby wayno » Wed 04 Jan, 2017 5:50 pm

dried fruit has a high electrolyte content... take it with salt, a quarter teaspoon per litre drunk, plus some salty food as part of your diet...
yeah salt tablets are expensive for what they are. eat natural food regularly to replace your electrolytes....
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Re: Sodium tablets

Postby RonK » Wed 04 Jan, 2017 6:48 pm

See my post in this thread for a recipe to make enough of your own electrolyte supplement powder for 100 litres of electrolyte.
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Re: Sodium tablets

Postby jdeks » Wed 04 Jan, 2017 6:50 pm

gbagua wrote:Do Chemists stock these? Water alone isn't enough when you start to really dehidrate yourself.

Why drinking water alone is not enough:

http://blog.liftopia.com/hydration-tips ... ing-water/

I wish I started using this supplement before when hiking in this hot and country (Queensland especifically) of ours. Always came home exhausted after one of those gruelling hikes in Mt. Barney.


While I absolutely agree the ORS is needed if you've properly dehydrated yourself, that link is baloney. It states a bunch of arbitrary "facts" with no references whatsoever, and 'concludes' you need to drink electrolytes constantly- oh hey look, heres a bunch of links conveniently directing you to commercial-grade products.

Amcal stocks PROPER ORS in sachet form, is your ask for it. I keep a few in my first aid kit, it dissolves faster than tablets, and tastes godawful- as actual ORS does (if it doesn't, you're drinking placebo candydrink).

Otherwise - seriously, just drink water.
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Re: Sodium tablets

Postby taipan821 » Thu 05 Jan, 2017 9:38 am

gbagua wrote:Do Chemists stock these? Water alone isn't enough when you start to really dehidrate yourself.

Why drinking water alone is not enough:

http://blog.liftopia.com/hydration-tips ... ing-water/


I personally use electrolyte (brand Endurance) which contains magnesium in addition to the normal electrolyte mix. 1 individual satchet a day is sufficent for me. when you drink lots of water but no electrolytes you suffer from hyponatremia (low sodium). anyone who starts developing signs of dehydration, but have been drinking plenty of water is usually suffering from this. (trust me, it has happened to me and quite a few SES volunteers up in NQ)
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Re: Sodium tablets

Postby gbagua » Mon 09 Jan, 2017 8:37 am

Very useful info. No solid food thanks including dried fruit. Too bulky to carry. Thanks for the links and the recipe too! ;)
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Re: Sodium tablets

Postby gbagua » Mon 09 Jan, 2017 8:40 am

taipan821 wrote:anyone who starts developing signs of dehydration, but have been drinking plenty of water is usually suffering from this. (trust me, it has happened to me and quite a few SES volunteers up in NQ)


Took me all my life to find this out, I always thought it was a necessary pain. No pain no gain...nah! Welcome to this new tech stuff.
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Re: Sodium tablets

Postby Stew63 » Wed 01 Feb, 2017 9:01 pm

I use SaltStick buffered electrolyte capsules for ultra marathons and bushwalking and they are brilliant - after much experimentation I've found the Saltstick capsules MUCH better and more convenient than other electrolyte additives to drinks etc.
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Re: Sodium tablets

Postby mypace » Sat 10 Oct, 2020 7:02 pm

Stew63 You're on the money with Saltstick caps according to Gear Skeptic. Gear Skeptic recently released a well researched youtube regarding taking electrolytes while hiking. While my chemistry knowledge is at high school level, I find his in depth discussion very interesting and convincing. Gear Sk does not have obvious links to the makers of the product and declares that he buys all the products he discusses. I'm buying some, hopefully it will be safe to head to the hills soon, in Vic, and I'll try the capsules out.
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Re: Sodium tablets

Postby wayno » Mon 12 Oct, 2020 6:12 am

study i read said avoiding cramp was more to do with sodium levels before you started exercise than how much you took during exercise.
you can loose a couple of desert spoons of salt in sweat in a day, thats hard to replace on the move.
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Re: Sodium tablets

Postby slparker » Mon 12 Oct, 2020 8:00 am

Can you link that study, Wayno?

Seems curious to me as you can't 'preload' much sodium - you can't alter your pre-exercise sodium levels by much, I think. If you try to preload sodium your kidneys excrete it - taking water with it.
It's true that if you are sweating very heavily it is difficult to keep up with sodium loss through sweat, though.

The only solution when out for days is to keep eating salty food throughout the day, keep up the water and preload water and have a decent meal (i.e. consume salt) in the evening for the next day's walking. Acclimatisation and fitness also help a to as acclimatised and physically fit people sweat out less electrolytes (i.e. less concentrated sweat).
I doubt if salt tablets are necessary unless you can't/won't eat throughout the day. I recall, back when I was a medic in the army, a constant battle keeping patrolling soldiers upright in the tropics. To the point that section commanders would enforce rest stops and eating snacks and drinks at regular intervals. We never used salt tablets but eleectrolyte drinks can make the procedure more palatable for some - be wary of sugar content as you don't want to pay for your dentist's private school fees either.

It's also a learned skill, knowing how often to take a break, eat and drink; monitoring your urine concentration (colour) reflects your general level of hydration, monitoring how you are feeling in yourself (learning to recognise the early signs of electrolyte/water depletion), learning to take a break and not 'push-on'. I even monitor the turgor (plumpness) of my veins to see how much fluid is in my circulation (the veins are a water reservoir for your body).

It's the opposite of walking in the cold, you have to manipulate rest not activity, salt not sugar, to stay upright.
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Re: Sodium tablets

Postby wayno » Mon 12 Oct, 2020 8:39 am

haven't been able to find the article.
the issue could be if you're low in sodium before you start exercising. and or if your low in sodium to start with it could be because you aren't in the habit of taking enough sodium to cover you for exercise. if you're on a diet of unprocessed foods that doesnt contain much food that is naturally high in salt, you could be at risk.. there's a lot of evidence that animals in the wild will go to a lot of effort to hunt out high sodium food sources. people tend to highly prize salt in equatorial regions.

suggestion here its intensity of exercise that may be the factor in cramping and not the salt levels in the body.
i've been most prone to cramping when running, the faster the more likely to cramp.
i dont eat a lot of sodium in my diet, i dont add salt to my drinks, makes me tired if i do, i rely on food for salt on long walks, i'm not very susceptible to cramp walking, but i'm not usually sweating nearly as much in NZ as I would in Aus.

http://saltstick.com/2015/12/14/do-elec ... nt-cramps/
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Re: Sodium tablets

Postby slparker » Mon 12 Oct, 2020 9:48 am

Low sodium problems in the general population without a medical cause (i.e. exclusively from a dietary cause) are very rare.
Salt restriction for healthy people is also likely to be overstated, as there is little evidence that restricting sodium in your diet has any health benefits, unless you already have a medical condition such as hypertension or renal disease.
As always, eating a balanced diet, moderate in all areas, is key.

As you have already identified, most low sodium problems in healthy people eventuate after acutely losing sodium through sweat, or relatively through overhydration. Other common causes are drugs (ecstasy) and our old friends vomiting and diarrhoea.

There is simply no reason for healthy people to be concerned about their sodium levels - it is a 'worried well' problem. If anyone is concerned, obviously discussion with your GP (not random comments from an internet stranger) will allay your fears but the chances of an otherwise healthy person in Australia and NZ having hyponatraemia form lack of sodium in the diet is vanishingly small.

As to 'pre-loading' before hiking in hot weather. Sure, if you're worried have a packet of chips the night before.
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Re: Sodium tablets

Postby wayno » Mon 12 Oct, 2020 9:54 am

theres a lot of professional advice online advising people doing endurance exercise to supplement electrolytes
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Re: Sodium tablets

Postby slparker » Mon 12 Oct, 2020 10:09 am

wayno wrote:theres a lot of professional advice online advising people doing endurance exercise to supplement electrolytes


sure, as I stated above, taking sodium to replace lost sodium is recommended. This can be in the form of eating food containing salt or taking commercial preparations. Your body can't tell the difference.

Electrolyte supplements are generally used by endurance athletes because they can't stop for a break mid race, so the most efficient and easily and quickly absorbed preparation is the best for them (i.e. gels, drinks or whatever).

For hiking, in most circumstances, taking a break in the shade regularly and eating salt containing foods and water regularly is all that is required.

I am not trying to push anyone away from using special supplements, they are going to do the job, but be aware that if you rely on advice from a company that makes them their advice will be to take them.

Being the UL forum, if we are talking about what is strictly necessary to carry I would state that your food does the job and specific electrolyte supplements, whilst convenient and efficacious, are extra weight and faff.

That said, many people use electrolyte drinks to make water palatable, so, whatever does the job.
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Re: Sodium tablets

Postby CasualNerd » Tue 13 Oct, 2020 11:49 am

slparker wrote:For hiking, in most circumstances, taking a break in the shade regularly and eating salt containing foods and water regularly is all that is required.

I can only speak from personal experience, but I experience serious cramping, dizziness, fatigue etc if I don't supplement heavily in summer. A bushwalker has even died from hyponatremia in Tasmania a few years ago, so it's definitely a real issue with real world consequences.

Obviously everyone's different and you're lucky if it doesn't affect you, but I would suggest more people should try a few salt tablets and see what they're missing.
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Re: Sodium tablets

Postby Tortoise » Tue 13 Oct, 2020 12:14 pm

I wonder about the other components of sweat. I'm sure the placebo effect is partly at work, but electrolyte supplements have given me a huge boost on hot days - more so than the salty scroggin/nuts etc I have. The expensive powders with more in them, more so.

On a big, hot walk, I found that after I had drunk all I could at the last water source for some hours, I was able to happily down another 600ml when I put electrolyte powder into it. I hadn't planned to drink more than a sip of it, and was astonished at how easily it went down.
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Re: Sodium tablets

Postby wayno » Tue 13 Oct, 2020 12:22 pm

A 30-year-old man who was found dead on a bushwalking track in north-west Tasmania last year most likely died from drinking too much water, a coroner has found.

https://www.smh.com.au/national/bushwal ... 2621c.html

thres a couple of articles about people getting hyponatremia on the kokoda trail. both had drunk large volumes of wter to combat thirst or feeling unwell

https://www.mja.com.au/journal/2011/194 ... koda-track

https://www.wemjournal.org/article/S1080-6032(08)70148-0/pdf
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Re: Sodium tablets

Postby slparker » Tue 13 Oct, 2020 12:50 pm

I am not sure what your point is Wayno?

I have stated several times that salt + water is required to replace losses due to sweat. Consuming one to the exclusion of the other can lead to heat exhaustion and, rarely (but potentially) severe hyponatraemia - but only if you overdo the water by a lot.

The links you cites provide examples of relative hyponatraemia (too much water, not necessarily too little salt). They are extreme cases. Relative hyponatraemia does not happen if you rest regularly in hot environments and consume adequate water to keep your urine a light tea colour and consume food with dietary salt in it. This is normally sufficient for hiking in hot conditions.

Severe hyponatraemia in young healthy people isn't that common and mainly results in drinking too much water or taking ecstasy. Severe hyponatraemia is mainly an issue of people on medications, with kidney disease, the critically ill or the elderly.

There is nothing wrong or incorrect with extra electrolyte supplementation - unless you go crazy, the worse that will happen is that you will vomit them up or wee out the electrolytes. They just aren't necessary in the majority of cases. As per the question above it may be beneficial to replace other electrolytes (eg. Ca/Mg) but, again, these are found in adequate amounts in food. If you consume salt tablets (sodium) to the exclusion of other electrolytes you do risk not replacing these other electrolytes in which case... eat or if you wish bomb one of those fizzy tablets.

The case for electrolyte preparations is for when people are engaging in endurance exercise and cannot eat enough to replace the electrolytes or as a treatment for moderate heat exhaustion (because the preparations allow more rapid replacement) or to make water more palatable so that people will drink sufficiently.

Humans have evolved to walk in hot climates and we evolved without electrolyte tablets being handy. Acclimatisation, fitness and monitoring yourself in a hot climate (urine colour, regular rest, regular drinks, regular salt containing food) has stood humans well for 100, 000 years.
Last edited by slparker on Tue 13 Oct, 2020 1:02 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Sodium tablets

Postby wayno » Tue 13 Oct, 2020 12:55 pm

just providing practical cases of hyponatremia, not making a point, just trying to get some facts. i weanted to know the details of the tasmanian death.
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Re: Sodium tablets

Postby slparker » Wed 14 Oct, 2020 10:42 am

Yeah, apologies if I came across as tetchy.
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Re: Sodium tablets

Postby wildwanderer » Thu 15 Oct, 2020 5:31 pm

For me salt or electrolyte drinks don't do enough to prevent agonising leg cramping when I sit down after a long days walking.

The only thing that works (for me) to prevent is a magnesium tablet. Usually a morning tablet is enough but occasionally I've have one in the evening as well if I feel a cramp coming on.
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Re: Sodium tablets

Postby bluewombat » Wed 09 Dec, 2020 7:08 pm

The debate about whether hyponatremia during exercise is caused by excess water intake or excess sodium loss was settled in the sports medicine literature many years ago. Far and away the most common reason is excess water intake, sodium losses are relatively tightly controlled physiologically, and very rarely a cause of exercise induced hyponatremia.
https://bjsm.bmj.com/content/49/22/1432
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Exercise-associated_hyponatremia
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Re: Sodium tablets

Postby wayno » Thu 10 Dec, 2020 3:01 am

bluewombat wrote:The debate about whether hyponatremia during exercise is caused by excess water intake or excess sodium loss was settled in the sports medicine literature many years ago. Far and away the most common reason is excess water intake, sodium losses are relatively tightly controlled physiologically, and very rarely a cause of exercise induced hyponatremia.
https://bjsm.bmj.com/content/49/22/1432
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Exercise-associated_hyponatremia
BW


scientists come to their conclsions based on controlled , time limited lab tests...
if you sweat, you loose sodium, if you're hiking all day in hot weather you're loosing a lot of sodium, several grams a day, along with several litres of water, you have to drink to replace that lost water,,, so your sodium levels are being diluted a lot, and if you keep repeating for several days you are going to get worse day by day unless you replace the sodium at the rate you loose it along with the water....
i know people who've had hyponatremia and they werent consuming more water than they were loosing, they couldnt rectify the issue until they consumed a lot of salt....
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Re: Sodium tablets

Postby rcaffin » Fri 18 Dec, 2020 7:26 pm

If you really need more salt, just live off commercial packaged (dehi) meals for a few days. They reek of excess salt.

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Re: Sodium tablets

Postby bunyips » Thu 24 Dec, 2020 11:47 am

Had a read through this and will add my opinion. The majority of my walks are in hot and humid climates. Often over 35 degrees celcius with sometimes Max humidity (not rain) ... I have had heat stroke on two occasions. My own fault due to continuing when I should have lay down.
https://www.bulknutrients.com.au/produc ... yte-blend/
I do not work for these guys but found the product to be no nonsense and provides what the body needs in more extreme cases. 3.2 grams with 400 ml of water does the job. No added sugar or carbs. It is not just the salts we lose. Potassium, Magnesium etc. Dehydrated Coconut Water is also another very practical and light way of getting what your body loses through sweat and also potentially what your body does not have enough off to start with due to modern lifes food choices. Hope this helps some. Hot weather walker ;)
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