The Quest for a lighter pack

A place to chat about gear and the philosphy of ultralight. Ultralight bushwalking or backpacking focuses on carrying the lightest and simplest kit. There is still a good focus on safety and skill.
Forum rules
Ultralight Bushwalking/backpacking is about more than just gear lists. Ultralight walkers carefully consider gear based on the environment they are entering, the weather forecast, their own skill, other people in the group. Gear and systems are tested and tweaked.
If you are new to this area then welcome - Please remember that although the same ultralight philosophy can be used in all environments that the specific gear and skill required will vary greatly. It is very dangerous to assume that you can just copy someone else's gear list, but you are encouraged to ask questions, learn and start reducing the pack weight and enjoying the freedom that comes.

Common words
Base pack backpacking the mass of the backpack and the gear inside - not including consumables such as food, water and fuel
light backpacking base weight less than 9.1kg
ultralight backpacking base weight less than 4.5kg
super-ultralight backpacking base weight less than 2.3kg
extreme-ultralight backpacking base weight less than 1.4kg

The Quest for a lighter pack

Postby taipan821 » Mon 02 Apr, 2018 9:08 pm

Hello all.

I'm starting to plan more walks, I'm aiming to be more ambitious and I'm slowly updating my gear to try and be 'ultralight' whether this will happen or not is another matter entirely!

so starting off, my kitchen: Total weight of 365 grams
- toaks titanium 900mL pot with lid: 122g
- folding titanium spork: 17g
- sea to summit X Mug: 61g
- light my fire ferro rod: 28g
- Evernew Stove DX set: 84g
- bandanna: 37g
- stuff sack 13g

and the first aid Kit: Total weight 121 grams
2x 10cm heavy crepe bandages (snakebite, wound dressing, immobilisation/support)
1x sterile triangular bandage (trauma pad, sling)
40cmx 10cm fiximull (blisters, dressing, big roll of tape)
3x bandaids
2x XL bandaids
2x 7.5x10cm non-adherent pads (multipurpose item)
4x panadol
4x antacid
2x betadine swabs (wound cleaning)

and water carrying: Total 86 grams
2x 1.25L soft drink bottles

as I acquire items, I'll be posting updates
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Re: The Quest for a lighter pack

Postby Warin » Tue 03 Apr, 2018 1:46 pm

Some use geargrams to list their stuff ..
mine for OT is https://www.geargrams.com/list?id=47232
and commented on in thread viewtopic.php?f=25&t=27516

Comments on yours so far.
The Sea to Summit cup .. has no lid. I find a lid handy as I can then use it as a packing container. And I find the lack of insulation less than usefull.
I think the GSI mug might be better, for an added 40 grams.

bandanna? Cooking .. as a filter? Or cleaning cloth/dryer? A chux is 11 grams.

Good luck with your quest. :wink:

Note: My budget is no more than $1 for 1 gram saved. I think that is a fair rule of thumb.
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Re: The Quest for a lighter pack

Postby Mark F » Tue 03 Apr, 2018 4:06 pm

I happily acknowledge that choice of gear is personal and also dependent of the walking that you do. I have faffed around with various options for mugs and believe, like Warin, that a lid is beneficial.

A few things I have tried that I still use:
250ml plastic measuring jug (33g). Not quite big enough but the graduations are really handy.
550ml Ti mug with cf lid (71g). Good size and being Ti you can use it as an extra pot for cooking. I also have a cozy for this mug (23g). Packs with cozy inside my Evernew 900ml pot (ECA265 model) and it holds a 100g gas canister).
500ml Multix clear plastic bowl with screw on lid (47g). The rim design makes it rigid and able to picked up with almost boiling liquid in it. Capacity marks. Can be used to carry liquids. Dirt cheap at the supermarket in packs of 4. Decor have a similar one that is a little heavier.
600ml bottom half of a Jalna yoghurt pot (36g). Bit floppy at the rim but easily marked for capacity measurements. Fits perfectly over a 230g gas canister for almost zero volume in the pack.
400ml Evernew Ti mug (ECA278) 50g. About the lightest Ti mug.

I find that with Ti mugs I can lift them with my bare fingers off the stove and with care I don't burn my lips, unlike aluminium.
The larger mugs also serve as a bowl for muesli in the mornings. I tend to take the Multix bowl in summer and the 550 Ti mug on colder trips where I often do a bit more complex cooking.

On utensils I have gone for the S2S Alphalight spoon (9g) and keep it in my overnight food bag rather than with the cookset. This seems the lightest metal cutlery item I have been able to find and it has a deepish bowl which for me is the downfall of many spoons (Also a spork version but I hate all sporks).

I find a videla yellow cloth better than a bandanna (I carry a Buff for wearing) Half the weight at 16 grams, more absorbent, and can be washed and reused. I have used one as a towel - just takes a bit of wiping and wringing out.
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Re: The Quest for a lighter pack

Postby taipan821 » Tue 03 Apr, 2018 11:23 pm

Mark F wrote:500ml Multix clear plastic bowl with screw on lid (47g). The rim design makes it rigid and able to picked up with almost boiling liquid in it. Capacity marks. Can be used to carry liquids. Dirt cheap at the supermarket in packs of 4. Decor have a similar one that is a little heavier.

I find a videla yellow cloth better than a bandanna (I carry a Buff for wearing) Half the weight at 16 grams, more absorbent, and can be washed and reused. I have used one as a towel - just takes a bit of wiping and wringing out.


I like the bandanna so far as I use it for pretty much everything, but i do carry and use a buff so I'll see (hey, tinkering is constant, it took 2 years for me to finish off my search loadout) I also like the idea of the multix bowl, I'll pick some up and give it a go
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Re: The Quest for a lighter pack

Postby Warin » Wed 04 Apr, 2018 1:48 pm

Mark F wrote:500ml Multix clear plastic bowl with screw on lid (47g). The rim design makes it rigid and able to picked up with almost boiling liquid in it. Capacity marks. Can be used to carry liquids. Dirt cheap at the supermarket in packs of 4.

I find a videla yellow cloth weight at 16 grams, more absorbent, and can be washed and reused. I have used one as a towel - just takes a bit of wiping and wringing out.


Humm some added notes/ideas -

The Multix looks to be stated as 450ml. Was available in Coles ...
videla yellow cloth - woolies

A cloth could be used as an insulator for the mug. If possible it could be configured for that use in addition to any other use.
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Re: The Quest for a lighter pack

Postby Mark F » Wed 04 Apr, 2018 2:30 pm

When I look on the bottom of mine they are marked as 450ml. They happily hold 500ml with the lid screwed on with 500ml filling the container to just under the lower edge of the stiffening lip. The 500ml fill contour still leaves 20mm of freeboard to the rim, so I assume they set the volume at 450ml to allow for steam, expansion etc when used in a microwave.
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Re: The Quest for a lighter pack

Postby crollsurf » Wed 04 Apr, 2018 6:50 pm

That's a great start taipan. Better than mine is some ways but I'd add a PLB to your First-aid for peace of mind.

I enjoy researching UL gear. It takes time and more times than not, I change my mind a week later so I never rush into buying anything. Sounds like you already have a pretty good setup anyway so I wouldn't rush it.

Going down the UL route is worthwhile and a great learning experience but I tend to go for light-weight "systems" now and sacrifice a few grams. The UL stuff I bought I still use all the time or some of the time at least.

One system I like is my Exos pack, it has pockets everwhere which many UL packs don't. I have my PLB in the left shoulder strap pocket, my light on the right, water filtration in the right hip pocket... so it works not just as a pack but an organisational system so I can get to what I need, or may need, quickly.

Dehydrated food is a necessity on longer walks but I avoid it if possible, so I bought the GSI Pinnicle Soloist. Weighs a bit more but the pot is non-stick, spreads the heat well when cooking and it packs away, with cannister and stove, into a bag that doubles as a kitchen sink. A cooking system that packs away into a single unit.

So I'd say focus on getting the lightest systems that work for you. If you don't crack the 4.5kg base weight, it's no big deal, it still wont feel like much on your back.
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Re: The Quest for a lighter pack

Postby taipan821 » Thu 05 Apr, 2018 9:12 am

crollsurf wrote:That's a great start taipan. Better than mine is some ways but I'd add a PLB to your First-aid for peace of mind.
.


Currently researching that, a plb will be the next purchase.

I don't think I'll get down to the 4.5kg base weight as I do love my goshawk hammock, so I'm aiming for 5kg base weight
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Re: The Quest for a lighter pack

Postby wildwanderer » Fri 06 Apr, 2018 10:04 am

Assuming you have cut weight on the big 3. (Pack,Tent,Sleeping bag) here are some more ideas that have worked for me.

Carrying a single titanium 550ml pot with Lid. Works for cooking and drinking. Of course choice of dinner is now more limited. but I find I can do most rehydrated meals and hot drinks. Ti long handled spoon with polished bowl. (polished bowl is much more comfortable for mouth/lips)

- Have only one pair of pants. (which Im wearing and are convertible to shorts and quick dry nylon). In cold weather and/or if a cold river crossing is possible I'l carry thermal bottoms so I can put these on while the pants dry.

- On routes I know well I ditch the paper map and plastic compass. My phone becomes my compass, watch, camera and map. (orux maps for android). I also have a Suunto watch (with route loaded) which has a compass, GPS etc for backup. On unknown routes or challenging off-track routes I'l always carry the paper map/plastic compass as backup.

- Can get away with a lighter (less warm sleeping bag or quilt) by using a down jacket with hood while sleeping.

- Minimal First Aid Kit: PLB, Snake bite bandage, emergency fire starter (cotton ball with petro jelly), Elastoplast tape (blister taping, gear repair, wound taping). 4 band aids. For wound irrigation I use water. (From what I have read using disinfectant doesn’t help that much in preventing infection and can actually harm by killing the good tissue around the wound)

- 22 gram pocket swiss army knife with integrated pen, tweezers and scissors : log book writing, food prep, splinter removal, precise cutting of tape/clothing.

- Switched to dirty girl ankle gaiters. work well for preventing leeches/dirt/sticks from entering my trail runners. But they dont protect your legs from abrasion like a heavy gaiter does

- House key/car key and atm card secured by rubber band. (and a $ note if your think the atm card wont be accepted at any potential stop).

- I used to take a DEET/Sunscreen combo but I read that combining the two causes the DEET to penetrate the skin to a greater extent so now switching back to two separate containers.
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Re: The Quest for a lighter pack

Postby Warin » Fri 06 Apr, 2018 11:02 am

Basically .. anything that will sink in water attracts my eager attention for elimination/reduction. :)

Keys weigh a fair amount. House keys can be left at home - under a rock/paver, with a neighbour... Bit harder with car keys - but you only need one of them.

Change also weights a fair amount - store it in the car. If you have no car ..consider a donation to one of the charity tins, would be nice to have these at walker registration points. If your coming back that way .. just hid it.

Leave the wallet, a small zipped cloth one would be good ... coin wallet on fleebay? Possible DIY sources .. an old jackets zipped pocket. This needs to carry your evacuation stuff - id card, medical card, probably a credit card and get home stuff ($ and transport card/s).

RFID card protection can be had from an aluminium can - cut it up and bend it so it covers both sides of the card/s, job done for less cost and weigh than a commercial one.
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Re: The Quest for a lighter pack

Postby taipan821 » Sun 08 Apr, 2018 6:04 pm

currently researching TQ and UQ. I was looking at enlightened equipment but I want to hear people's views and any good alternative makers

Also, who knew hootchie cord made great UL guylines, 4x 3.5m lengths = 33 grams
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Re: The Quest for a lighter pack

Postby ChrisJHC » Mon 09 Apr, 2018 10:41 pm

taipan821 wrote:currently researching TQ and UQ. I was looking at enlightened equipment but I want to hear people's views and any good alternative makers

Also, who knew hootchie cord made great UL guylines, 4x 3.5m lengths = 33 grams


I’ve got an EE TQ and I’m very happy with it. Bought it via Massdrop for a very good price. You have to be prepared to wait a few weeks for it to arrive.

The stuff sack is also the perfect size for putting a down jacket in for a pillow.

Ahh, hootchie cord - one of life’s great inventions! The 1.75mm Dyneema cord, however, is only 24g for the same lengths. The hootchie cord is significantly cheaper.


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Re: The Quest for a lighter pack

Postby taipan821 » Tue 10 Apr, 2018 9:37 am

Warin wrote:Leave the wallet, a small zipped cloth one would be good ... coin wallet on fleebay? Possible DIY sources .. an old jackets zipped pocket. This needs to carry your evacuation stuff - id card, medical card, probably a credit card and get home stuff ($ and transport card/s).
RFID card protection can be had from an aluminium can - cut it up and bend it so it covers both sides of the card/s, job done for less cost and weigh than a commercial one.


aluminium foil works well as an RFID blocker, but then who would be reading that stuff in the bush?
I often just chuck some notes, cards and keys in a ziplock bag and put it in my misc pocket along with first aid kit, sunscreen etc
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Re: The Quest for a lighter pack

Postby Lamont » Tue 10 Apr, 2018 3:00 pm

Just thought I'd mention again as EE quilts were raised that I bought a EE Revelation quilt some time ago (when I could not get my size from Australian maker Underclingmike.) "so called -7c (20F) and wide". It does not match the dimensions stated for width (shorter) which was still happening recently, and its so called rating of -7C is out of whack (for me and many others it is about 5C out). Do a search here and elsewhere on "EE quilts ratings" or some such and this has been a common thread. I think this has come up on BW.com before but especially on US forums. They are apparently now adding more fill to compensate I read somewhere, but the weight has increased. So maybe it has been settled. For me my EE (-7C) is a quilt I will use for about 2-3C+. Used it to about -2C a while ago and it coped but would use the Nunatak always from now on in cold (potential to about -5C) weather.
Some people are talking about liking the EE quilts but you need to know if they have pushed them to the so called limit. If so, and something has changed, then maybe they can work for you and the problem is resolved. As you probably know most quilts will work when the weather isn't cold but get near or below zero and then the good ones will stand out. No gaps, enough fill, good baffles etc. But if many people have to wear everything you are carrying plus your thermals and beanie to get "near the manufacturers stated limit" there is something screwy I reckon. "Underclingmike" (AUS) seems to be very respected for his work and I have a Nunatak ArcUL(US) which is "true" to it's ratings and stated dimensions, and a brilliant quilt. Cheers.
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Re: The Quest for a lighter pack

Postby Zapruda » Tue 10 Apr, 2018 4:10 pm

Spot on, Lamont! It’s important to understand the limitations of certain brands. EE is no exception.
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Re: The Quest for a lighter pack

Postby J M » Tue 10 Apr, 2018 5:25 pm

I have an EE Of quilt (about -17C I think?) and have used it down to around -5C. At a guess, I don't think I'd like to use it any lower than -10C or so (I do sleep a little cold though).

I also own one of Mike's -2C quilts and find it to be far superior in terms of its construction and temperature rating. I used it at about -1C recently and was toasty warm with thermals on, so I'd definitely lean towards Mike's quilts over an EE job if you're tossing them up.
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Re: The Quest for a lighter pack

Postby Lamont » Tue 10 Apr, 2018 6:27 pm

Yep, all we hear about mikes quilts are good things.
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Re: The Quest for a lighter pack

Postby Strider » Tue 10 Apr, 2018 8:41 pm

I reckon you’re spot on with those estimates, Lamont. I’ve taken my EE Rev 20F (+1oz overfill) to 3C, and it was clear that was approaching its limit. It is absolutely a great quilt but for me EE 20F is a 10C+ rating.


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Re: The Quest for a lighter pack

Postby crollsurf » Tue 10 Apr, 2018 9:42 pm

I've had my EE Revelation 20F for just under a year now and had it at -5 (bom obs) with thin light-weight underwear and beanie and I was nice and warm. Maybe they have fixed them or maybe it's luck of the draw. Wanted an undercling but he wasn't making them wide enough (~58") back then.
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Re: The Quest for a lighter pack

Postby slparker » Wed 11 Apr, 2018 5:53 am

I have had my EE 20f below freezing before sleeping in a hooded windshirt.
The variance in experiences in the forum is easily explained by individual physiology and otber variables such ad fatigue, skin dampness, eating before bed etc.

I bought an EE quilt because undercling mike was not making open footboxes at the time and a quilt without an open footbox is not a quilt it is a mummy sleeping bag turned the other way around.

Now i would definitely buy a quilt from mike but the EE quilt is still a fine product -but they do overestimate their temperature rating in my opinion.

I also believe that all temp ratings are a guide and the purpose of a quilt is part of an overall system comprising beanie, puffy, muffler and insulated trousers if need be. If i'd wanted to climb into my sleep system in my jocks to have a toasty nights sleep i would have stuck with my heavy mummy sleeping back that was too hot for the 90% of my camping that is in above freezing conditions.
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Re: The Quest for a lighter pack

Postby Strider » Mon 16 Apr, 2018 12:16 am

crollsurf wrote:I've had my EE Revelation 20F for just under a year now and had it at -5 (bom obs) with thin light-weight underwear and beanie and I was nice and warm. Maybe they have fixed them or maybe it's luck of the draw. Wanted an undercling but he wasn't making them wide enough (~58") back then.

Mines the 2013 karostep baffle design. Yours might be the newer “shiftless” model (I think it’s called)?


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Re: The Quest for a lighter pack

Postby taipan821 » Mon 16 Apr, 2018 5:09 am

The decision has been made. Top quilt will be from Mike and the underquilt will be from simonn
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Re: The Quest for a lighter pack

Postby taipan821 » Fri 20 Apr, 2018 9:48 am

researching next purchase, tarp.

Mostly likely will be cuben fibre, mostly for hammock camping. rectangle or hex?
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Re: The Quest for a lighter pack

Postby ChrisJHC » Sat 21 Apr, 2018 7:01 am

taipan821 wrote:researching next purchase, tarp.

Mostly likely will be cuben fibre, mostly for hammock camping. rectangle or hex?


Most hammockers prefer a hex hammock as it gives the same hammock coverage with less material (and hence less weight).

The downside is that it can really only be rigged in “A Frame” style whereas a rectangle gives more options.

Advanced hex models have caternary curves but these aren’t essential.

If you can sew (or know someone who can) a DIY tarp is not too difficult. Cuben would be a different story.


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Re: The Quest for a lighter pack

Postby ChrisJHC » Sat 21 Apr, 2018 7:02 am

ChrisJHC wrote:
taipan821 wrote:researching next purchase, tarp.

Mostly likely will be cuben fibre, mostly for hammock camping. rectangle or hex?


Most hammockers prefer a hex hammock as it gives the same hammock coverage with less material (and hence less weight).

The downside is that it can really only be rigged in “A Frame” style whereas a rectangle gives more options.

Advanced hex models have caternary curves but these aren’t essential.

If you can sew (or know someone who can) a DIY tarp is not too difficult. Cuben would be a different story.


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...prefer a hex TARP...


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Re: The Quest for a lighter pack

Postby taipan821 » Sun 22 Apr, 2018 11:26 am

Thanks for the insight, I was originally looking at a rectangle tarp for multipurpose, but the plan is now (thanks to feedback) is to purchase a cuben fibre hex tarp and get better at sewing. The last stuffsack didn't turn out too bad so I'm getting there
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