Foreigners to pay double to tramp Great Walks

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Foreigners to pay double to tramp Great Walks

Postby tomh » Fri 25 Aug, 2017 10:17 am

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=11911049
All you NZ/-- dual citizens out there will be smiling.
Don't know if Barnaby Joyce is a tramper though... but now is a good time to start
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Re: Foreigners to pay double to tramp Great Walks

Postby wayno » Fri 25 Aug, 2017 11:49 am

so thats up to $140 a night in a hut for adults, cheaper tracks around $60. kids have been free, but overseas kids will be charged at adult rates as well
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Re: Foreigners to pay double to tramp Great Walks

Postby Strider » Fri 25 Aug, 2017 12:57 pm

I'm a dual-citizen. I wonder how I can prove upon booking that I'm a Kiwi?
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Re: Foreigners to pay double to tramp Great Walks

Postby wayno » Fri 25 Aug, 2017 1:42 pm

they are developing a new online booking system, no details on how it will differentiate
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Re: Foreigners to pay double to tramp Great Walks

Postby tastrax » Fri 25 Aug, 2017 1:57 pm

Oh no - so long as folks dont start flooding over to Oz instead........ oh wait , we could charge them extra as well.... that's a real incentive for tourism
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Re: Foreigners to pay double to tramp Great Walks

Postby tomh » Fri 25 Aug, 2017 2:40 pm

wayno wrote:they are developing a new online booking system, no details on how it will differentiate

The booking system will ask you to, after the beep, speak the number that comes after five.
The system software will be able to differentiate. Easily.
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Re: Foreigners to pay double to tramp Great Walks

Postby wayno » Fri 25 Aug, 2017 2:56 pm

no shortage of people booking the great walks, milford track sells out in hours, routeburn sells out as well over holiday season
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Re: Foreigners to pay double to tramp Great Walks

Postby GPSGuided » Fri 25 Aug, 2017 4:27 pm

Bummer!
Just move it!
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Re: Foreigners to pay double to tramp Great Walks

Postby wayno » Sat 26 Aug, 2017 5:01 am

from the land of the long white clouds...

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Re: Foreigners to pay double to tramp Great Walks

Postby Nuts » Sat 26 Aug, 2017 2:46 pm

I like the greens 'airport tax' approach.. to pay for- making a commodity of these essential services.
Limiting backwoods use though, with conservation in mind, is another issue. Rather than limited by discretionary income a better approach would be a higher level of commitment required. Some evidence of waking and MIB experience for the permit needed to venture off 'tourist' tracks.
"The guides are all complaining there's mobile reception and hot showers," Godfrey laughs.
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Re: Foreigners to pay double to tramp Great Walks

Postby rurik » Sat 26 Aug, 2017 5:15 pm

Nuts wrote:Limiting backwoods use though, with conservation in mind, is another issue. .


It is not about limiting access for conservation. It is about raising funds to pay to the maintenance of the facilities. If you walk the track and never sleep in a cabin then you won't pay a cent. This new system doesn't keep people off the track.


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Re: Foreigners to pay double to tramp Great Walks

Postby wayno » Sat 26 Aug, 2017 5:31 pm

its common now to get large groups of overseas school kids on the great walks booking out the huts and not paying a cent...
foreign family groups, kids paying nothing...
it costs $100,000 a year to helicopter the sewerage from fiordland great walks alone.. a massive amount of regular track work is required to keep the tracks in their high condition because of frequent slips and tree falls. coal and gas is helicoptered in to the huts.
residents pay year round taxes towards all this and foreigners come in and out and take advantage of it all.
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Re: Foreigners to pay double to tramp Great Walks

Postby tastrax » Sat 26 Aug, 2017 5:33 pm

You will pay a camping fee, rather than a hut fee
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Re: Foreigners to pay double to tramp Great Walks

Postby wayno » Sat 26 Aug, 2017 5:38 pm

tastrax wrote:You will pay a camping fee, rather than a hut fee


that may well be hiked as well..
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Re: Foreigners to pay double to tramp Great Walks

Postby Nuts » Sat 26 Aug, 2017 7:46 pm

rurik wrote:
Nuts wrote:Limiting backwoods use though, with conservation in mind, is another issue. .


It is not about limiting access for conservation. It is about raising funds to pay to the maintenance of the facilities. If you walk the track and never sleep in a cabin then you won't pay a cent. This new system doesn't keep people off the track.


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I read of this last year and in the comments about separate pricing included concerns of 'turning foreign tourists away ' (and locals worried that they are next to pay). Correct though, not about limiting access purely for conservation (though some aspect of maintenance and planning will be with the bush in mind, even if just the visitor experience of 'wilderness'.)

It's true, like here, falling over ourselves to -get tourists- or alternatively, for locals- concerned when it comes to what that will mean 'for us' but a conversation about or policy purely for conservation, that''s 'another issue', for another time.. for whatever survives the commodity mindset. Time marches on, what happens when there are just too many cashed up tourists, all still willing to pay?
"The guides are all complaining there's mobile reception and hot showers," Godfrey laughs.
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Re: Foreigners to pay double to tramp Great Walks

Postby wayno » Sun 27 Aug, 2017 4:05 am

this increase in price is on top of a recent increase in prices across the board for NZers too...
great walks are becoming exclusive for the rich, they run through some of the best nz scenery and its a good way to get kids to see that scenery without putting them in too much danger on the rougher tracks, but you have to have the $$$ to do it, even the campsites cost more than it costs to stay at most NZ huts... you cant camp on the milford track and the boat fares are very expensive.
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Re: Foreigners to pay double to tramp Great Walks

Postby tastrax » Sun 27 Aug, 2017 9:10 am

So what is the cost TeAnau to TeAnau for the Milford with all transport etc? Let's see how it compares with Overland and Three Capes
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Re: Foreigners to pay double to tramp Great Walks

Postby wayno » Sun 27 Aug, 2017 10:24 am

bus to te anau downs $28
boat to milford track $ 88
huts 3 @ $140 = $420 compulsory to book all huts, when you place your booking all three huts are automatically booked.. even though the first day is only a 5k walk to the hut...
boat from milford track $50
bus to te anau $53

Total $647

you still have to bus to te anau from the airport, usually queenstown, $37 which is twice as far as teh bus from milford sound...
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Re: Foreigners to pay double to tramp Great Walks

Postby tomh » Sun 27 Aug, 2017 11:36 am

During my stays at no-warden NZ huts it was obvious many trampers had not bought hut tickets. Yes, I know it has been brought up before but it does add a important point in the latest hut fee increase.
There is an interesting article on the subject Rising hut fees, the price of being honest which is dated 2010 but still relevant. In one of its quotes it states
For a number of years I have noted how few pay. At one hut, New Zealanders, including us, numbered nine and every one had a ticket or annual hut pass. Foreign trampers also numbered nine but only two had bought hut tickets — a high level of non-compliance. Comments from friends suggest other tracks, for example the Dusky, support these figures.

My experience is similar. Another quote was about a method used to get those hut fees paid
the Tararuas, which have a strong history of recreational tramping and community involvement, began with about a 25% compliance rate when hut fees were introduced. In 1989 this resulted in a long weekend helicopter blitz in which rangers were flown around many huts throughout the range to pounce on those staying there, and ensure that $4 hut fees were paid. It was bad for public relations, but apparently effective in the longer term and reportedly the $1100 use of the helicopter was cheaper than paying rangers to walk to all the remote places.

Perhaps the post title should have read 'Honest foreigners to pay double to tramp Great Walks'.
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Re: Foreigners to pay double to tramp Great Walks

Postby LachlanB » Mon 28 Aug, 2017 8:07 am

So, are the prices for hut tickets or Backcountry Hut Passes going to increase? Plenty of walks in NZ that aren't Great Walks, and I was under the impression that the fee avoidance was mostly on them, rather than the great walks.
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Re: Foreigners to pay double to tramp Great Walks

Postby wayno » Mon 28 Aug, 2017 8:25 am

LachlanB wrote:So, are the prices for hut tickets or Backcountry Hut Passes going to increase? Plenty of walks in NZ that aren't Great Walks, and I was under the impression that the fee avoidance was mostly on them, rather than the great walks.


only the great walks at this stage, complaints from NZers they cant get on them because foreigners book them out and foreign youth groups taking up a lot of spaces for free.
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Re: Foreigners to pay double to tramp Great Walks

Postby GPSGuided » Mon 28 Aug, 2017 10:00 am

Are Aussies considered to be foreigners? Our deputy PM governed the country for quite a while as a NZer and we have so many NZ natives here calling home. Special arrangements to keep the ANZAC bond going?
Just move it!
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Re: Foreigners to pay double to tramp Great Walks

Postby oldpiscator » Mon 28 Aug, 2017 10:16 am

GPSGuided wrote:Are Aussies considered to be foreigners? Our deputy PM governed the country for quite a while as a NZer and we have so many NZ natives here calling home. Special arrangements to keep the ANZAC bond going?


Yep we are foreigners and that's why we get ripped off an extra $50 to purchase an annual fishing licence. About time we looked at returning the compliment.
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Re: Foreigners to pay double to tramp Great Walks

Postby north-north-west » Mon 28 Aug, 2017 6:03 pm

oldpiscator wrote:Yep we are foreigners and that's why we get ripped off an extra $50 to purchase an annual fishing licence. About time we looked at returning the compliment.


I'd rather return Barnaby.
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Re: Foreigners to pay double to tramp Great Walks

Postby bigkev » Mon 28 Aug, 2017 7:27 pm

north-north-west wrote:
oldpiscator wrote:Yep we are foreigners and that's why we get ripped off an extra $50 to purchase an annual fishing licence. About time we looked at returning the compliment.


I'd rather return Barnaby.


I'll second the motion to send Barnaby home ;)
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Re: Foreigners to pay double to tramp Great Walks

Postby Nuts » Mon 28 Aug, 2017 8:12 pm

wayno wrote:this increase in price is on top of a recent increase in prices across the board for NZers too...
great walks are becoming exclusive for the rich, they run through some of the best nz scenery and its a good way to get kids to see that scenery without putting them in too much danger on the rougher tracks, but you have to have the $$$ to do it, even the campsites cost more than it costs to stay at most NZ huts... you cant camp on the milford track and the boat fares are very expensive.


Relying on a tourist economy means relying on an increasing number of foreign visitors. Like here, 'future proofing' these experiences means- attracting overseas visitors. Not locals, nor even other Aussies (for us).

And when these experiences involve national parks, unfortunately, we seem to have added 'the need to provide revenue' to the historic national park values of 'providing a recreational space' and 'for the preservation of wild things'. :?

It follows that you'll have coupled strings of commercial huts. When it's decided to cap the walker numbers, don't expect it to apply to increasing private hut numbers for the same tracks, as is the case here..

Charging more for the experience, clearly being used as a commodity is a great idea imo!
"The guides are all complaining there's mobile reception and hot showers," Godfrey laughs.
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Re: Foreigners to pay double to tramp Great Walks

Postby izogi » Tue 29 Aug, 2017 11:46 am

GPSGuided wrote:Are Aussies considered to be foreigners? Our deputy PM governed the country for quite a while as a NZer and we have so many NZ natives here calling home. Special arrangements to keep the ANZAC bond going?


It won't be helpful for most people here but it could be interesting how it gets interpreted.

If you're just flying into NZ and out again, I'd expect it'd most likely you'd be charged the higher rate. But, if they choose to do it on residency rather than citizenship, it's completely possible that Australians living in NZ might be eligible for local rates.

NZ has a history of prioritising residency over citizenship for many things. eg. Anyone in NZ can vote in elections without needing to be a citizen, as long as they've lived in the country legally for a year or more, and have no end date on their visa. (This includes most Australians living in NZ, and for contrast even NZ Citizens mayn't vote if they've not returned for 3 years.) So yeah... I suspect some Aussies would be eligible for local rates, but not in a way that's likely to apply if they live in Australia.
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Re: Foreigners to pay double to tramp Great Walks

Postby madpom » Tue 29 Aug, 2017 12:08 pm

My guess is they'll get you on a technicality. Aussies automatically receive 'indefinate residency' which starts when you enter the country and expires the moment you leave the country. Whereas permenent residency is valid from when the visa is granted until when the visa expires. So assuming you need to pay before you clear immigration, aussies standing at the immigration desk aren't yet residents.
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Re: Foreigners to pay double to tramp Great Walks

Postby izogi » Tue 29 Aug, 2017 12:18 pm

madpom wrote:So assuming you need to pay before you clear immigration, aussies standing at the immigration desk aren't yet residents.


Good point. I was thinking of the Great Walks fees, but if there were some kind of differential border levy instated by an incoming government then it's possibly going to work that way.

I don't think Australians are considered permanent residents in New Zealand, in the legal sense. They're just given their own visa which doesn't require them to leave. The voting example above is to do with a special definition in the Electoral Act, which basically says that anyone who's legally been in NZ for long enough, and without a required end date, can vote in elections. I'd be quite surprised if DOC and the Minister narrowed the Great Walks definition so strictly as to include only citizens, but exclude everyone else who lives here.
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Re: Foreigners to pay double to tramp Great Walks

Postby madpom » Tue 29 Aug, 2017 2:13 pm

Ah yes. I was thinking of labours policy everyone else was talking about national's
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