Crinoline (Mt Ligar) and Long Hill, volunteer track work

[Dutchy]

Hi guys,

After attempting the traverse from Breakfast Ck over The Crinoline (Mt Ligar) and Long Hill to Tamboritha Saddle (report will follow) but turning back due to severe overgrowth and fire debris at and past Long Hill, I wondered if Parks would let people help re-establish the track.
My luck, as I ended up talking to the Ranger in charge of the area at the end of our walk. He was very interested to hear a hikers opinion on the track, as well as the tali karng track. He is keen for the Crinoline - Long Hill track to be re-established and make it one of the great walk for the area again. But budget cuts and lack of funding would require volunteers to help out.
Being very impressed by the first day of this walk, I (already on the walk) thinking it shouldn't be too hard to re-mark the track and do some basic clearing.
Parks Vic would supply us with markers, nails etc.
So here is my question: is there any keen, fit and experienced hikers willing to come up with me for a weekend (before Christmas) to try and achieve this?
Arrive Friday night, camp at breakfast creek, head up early and re-mark the section from where the McMillans track veers off to the start of Long Hill. The afternoon would be spend finding and fixing the previous camp ground near the creek. Sunday would be spend to navigate and mark the section from the campground to the 4wd track on the Dingo Hill Rd side.
I am aware that in 2 days we can't expect miracles, but tracking, marking and some basic clearing should be possible. Once the trail is re-established, some more traffic will help keep the track clear and defined.
Besides volunteers, I'm looking for someone who has done this track in the past and has a GPS log or coordinates for the Long Hill camp and route to Dingo Hill Rd.
Anyone interested, send me a pm. I will be in touch with the Parks Ranger once I have a crew together.
The idea is a weekend late November or in the first half of December, weather permitted.
Hope someone is keen!
Cheers,
Dutchy

[Snowzone]

I've done this walk a few times now. Yes while the track is overgrown between Mcmillans track and the Crinoline and then again in areas on Long Hill I think part of the beauty of this walk is that navigation is required. A bit of clearing is one thing but going in with markers everywhere is not what I would like to see.
There is several places to camp on Long Hill and the 'campground' near the creek is simply just a nice clearing in the bush. Why does it need fixing?

[Dutchy]

Not sure when you were there last, but the reason for having a designated track is to reduce damage to the area by walkers taking different paths. On the other side there is the safety aspect. We bashed our way through the bush for nearly 2 hours before finding a small spot for our tent. I had GPS, maps and prior knowledge, yet no track or site anywhere near the creek was found. All information was misleading or not current. On the way back I found several clearings that would be more or less suible as camps. Not everyone is capable in navigating, let alone when low cloud would sneak up on you. This used to be a defined track, and all we would like to achieve is that this once again becomes a (difficult) track for hikers to enjoy. The extremely low numbers that go there now cause the overgrowing of the track. We spoke to an aged gentleman that had been coming there so ce 1956 and said this would be his last time as it had become too hard due to the state of the track.
This is purely action taken to give hikers the opportunity to enjoy the walk with minimal damage to the area. If you prefer to use a GPS and bush bash, I'm sorry, but we can't keep everyone happy....

[dplanet]

Can recall the recent tracknotes from Andrewbish, who mentioned that he had to use a machete to get to a creek for water. Just a little bit of fixing is nice specially a pad from the tent site to the creek, but please don't overdo it.

How do you define a fit hiker? I will be able to give a hand, but I am rather slow. Have done the Crinoline with VNPA a while back and would like to go for it again. That is the reason I am interested.

[Snowzone]

I was at the Crinoline last November. If you follow the track off the top of The Crinoline to Long Hill you actually can stay on track to the first of the campsite clearings. The track may not be a metre wide but there was still a definate footpad there. From the first of these clearings there is another footpad that leads down to a second clearing and then a few footpads down to the creek from there.
I am not opposed to track maintenance at all. I do it regularly. What I do not agree with is overdoing what is an area that has a slightly more wilderness feel to it.

[Dutchy]

A lot can change in a year.... From the start of Long Hill the track is partially defined around the west side, and a few spots that could be used as camps are present (either exposed or on a fair slope). The track to the waterfalls and creek is completely gone. Let me be clear, I'm not in this to create an Overland Track like hike, but a route people can follow and just wide enough for a hiker to push through. It's a great section of the high country that people should be able to enjoy....
As to fit hikers.... I want to cover good ground on the Saturday morning to have time to clear and mark on Long Hill. The second day will be tough too, not just hiking, but a fair bit of clearing too. So I am just trying to find people that are up for the challenge!

[dplanet]

Sounds reasonable.

[Dutchy]

What a shame the response I hoped for isnt there..... I was hoping/thinking there would be some hikers keen on combining a hobby with some "community service".... I will still do it though, might just take more than a weekend!

[pazzar]

I would love to help out, unfortunately weekends are not possible for me though, I work every weekend, and I don't see it being likely that I will get a 2 day break in the next couple of months. Retail!! I am very keen to get out and visit this area as soon as I have some free time though.

[vicpres]

Firstly, thanks for taking the initiative to fix a problem you identified.

You may not be aware, but Bushwalking Victoria (BWV) members have for many years undertaken track maintenance and development across Victoria. In addition, many clubs also undertake track maintenance in their local or favourite parks. While the number of volunteers is regrettably small, they make up for it in dedication and enthusiasm. BWV also has a Track Report Form on its web site for any bushwalker to report track issues which we can then take up with the relevant land manager. This can also lead to BWV negotiating with the land manager to assist with fixing the problem. Especially given the lack of resources afflicting Parks Victoria, BWV believes that this is an area where all bushwalkers (i.e. not just BWV members) can play a part in putting something back into bushwalking, and is part of our plans to achieve Better Bushwalking in Victoria.

One of the advantages of bushwalkers getting involved in projects such as yours is that it can help ensure that the end result meets the needs and wants of bushwalkers. This should alleviate, if not eliminate some of the reservations expressed in other posts. An example of this is the Northern Circuit of The Prom, which over the course of around 4 work parties BWV volunteers marked and cleared this route. We were very sensitive to the wilderness qualities of this area and were determined not to clear a track, but a narrow route of around 40cm. A similar approach, for similar reasons would seem to be appropriate here too.

Finally, while I can't make promises, with a little more lead time and a specific date for your proposed weekend I think you might get more takers and BWV would consider promoting it too.

[Dutchy]

Weather permitted I will be heading back to mt ligar on the weekend of the 30th of November and 1st of December.... If anyone wants to join me....

[paidal_chalne_vala]

I did that whole hike and it was so overgrown and the route was very ill defined , so much so that it was just bush bashing half the time. I didn't enjoy it too much . I got very scuffed and scratched up and had to watch my feet every step while avoiding having my eyes poked out by regrowth . It is very remote which is appealing and seldom used these days.

[andrewbish]

Can recall the recent tracknotes from Andrewbish, who mentioned that he had to use a machete to get to a creek for water.

Hi
I DID take a machete as I'd heard there was v gnarly bush in places. In fact, I never needed it to slash thru bush - tho I did use it to mark a trail to the creek from the Long Hill campsite.

There was some thick-ish regrowth in patches in the first couple of kms after that campsite, but it was passable enough at the time.

If we must do some trail work, I would go with snowzone's view that we keep it minimal.

Andrew

Here's the blog post of my walk: http://trailsandtracks.blogspot.com.au/ ... a.html?m=1

[Dutchy]

Just looking at the time you did the walk, and the condition of the switch back you have a photo of, the track has gotten quite a bit worse.
I dont understand why people seem to think i'd like to make this a wheel chair accessible track??????
If anyone was there in the past few months, you'll know what i was talking about....
One weekend to do the walk, mark and clear a little will only create a small track/route with the main reason being to define a single track rather than people needing to bash their own way through....
Anyway, so far just me and a friend... We'll see what we can do!

[andrewbish]

Just looking at the time you did the walk, and the condition of the switch back you have a photo of, the track has gotten quite a bit worse.
I dont understand why people seem to think i'd like to make this a wheel chair accessible track??????

Coz we like it rough, wild and just a little bit inaccessible.

Anyway, yours is a good initiative. All the best.

[Moondog55]

I'm interested but also no longer in top condition. I do however own an axe or two and a couple of brushcutters/slashers ( manual'blades on poles) that I can bring
Can you get retro markers from Parks at no cost as I have lots of S/H roofing screws for attachment

[Dutchy]

I'll confirm things with the ranger this week, make sure everything is all good. He's got stacks of orange arrows and nails for us.... Axe and cutter could be handy! I'm taking a hand saw and hopefully find a cheap machete to take....

[dplanet]

Do you still want a gps log? Will try my best to create a gpx file (with waypoints) for you if requested. The created file will be based on the guidebook "Bushwalks in the Victorian Alps" by Glenn van der Knijff and the tracknotes from Andrewbish.

Just back from King Spur (Mt Koonika), imo the route may need a little work too.

[gbedford]

Hello Dutchy,

I was up there about four weeks back and walked from Breakfast Creek over the Crinoline and around to Tamboritha and down McMillans to Breakfast Creek. It had been ten years since I was last there.
Getting over the Crinoline is fine but you have to think about it. Navigating up to Long Hill starts out easy but as you know gets a bit thin. The only difficulty we had was deciding where to camp in relation to walking down to the creek. I couldn't find the old campsite which was closer to the creek. We camped on top in one of many lovely little clearings. Navigating the next day needed some thought until the Rock Shelter. There were traces of the old track, some cairns and occasional pink tape markers.

the walking is not to bad. You have to think about it. Getting down the bottom half of McMillans to Breakfast Creek is a far more tedious scratchy affair. That is where some track work needs to be done.

I am interested in helping you as long as it is kept simple and basic. Not sure whether I will be available on that weekend 30/11-1/12. Will check

Gordon Bedford

[Dutchy]

thanks Gordon!!
The idea is to keep it simple.... Some markers and basically making a narrow but followable track through.... just to allow people to use it as a walking track again.... Mc Millans could be next, to create the 3 day loop walk. Just to gauge opinions, I know there is some clearing near the top of the ridge.... but would re-instating the old camp site be better? More protected?

[Travis22]

Would love to help but ill be in the area that weekend with my wife and bub so i wont be able to get out on the track. If i see you guys around Breakfast creek before you set off ill be sure to say g'day.

Gordon, were you in the small group that took off on a Saturday morning - i wondered over to say hello from our camp on the other side of Breakfast creek. (Would have been 3 maybe 4 weeks back).

Travis.

[gbedford]

No that wouldn't have been me Travis as there was just myself and my son and we didn't meet anybody.

Any way I can't make it on the 30th-1st weekend but probably the next weekend if that is useful.

From my memory the old campsite was probably where it was because it was the first bit of flat ground on the ridge up from the Crinoline that was close to the creek. It was probably established by the Melbourne Grammar boys who made the track and swarmed around there in the hundreds many years ago.
In fact there used to be another shorter, steeper but badly eroded track up to the Crinoline that the grammar boys ran up and down. I think it is a good thing that t disappeared some years back.

Gordon

[dplanet]

Hope this helps.

[sim1oz]

@Dutchy, we can't join to help that weekend but I think it's a great idea. Thanks for taking the initiative. If you end up going back for a second weekend, just let us all know.

[Dutchy]

Hope this helps.

These are the tracks I have on my GPS....does anyone have coordinates for the original long hill campsite?

[andrewbish]

Just back from King Spur (Mt Koonika), imo the route may need a little work too.

Amen to that, dplanet! (Tho NNW, track hound she is, may snort in derision)

[dplanet]

According to the map provided in the guidebook "Bushwalks in the Vic Alps" and the discussion from the previous posts, the pix was created to suggest the location where tents can be pitched and the easy and close access to the creek.

[Dutchy]

Hi DPlanet, the Glenn van der Knijff book is the one i have too... I have a gps that shows most tracks, but not camp sites. i know now where the current clearings are, just hoping to get coordinates of someone who dropped a waypoint at the old campsite!

ps, how bad is Koonika? Was hoping to do Koonika and Speculation soon....

[Dutchy]

Hi guys.... No reply from the ranger, so this trip if off for now.

[CaptainC]

There are a number of possible campsites. If you see where 2 tracks join at the south end of Long Hill (On the map you posted), the camp site that I preferred was about 5 - 10 minutes north, on the ridge. I was last there a year ago, you could still see the large ring of rocks around the fireplace. If you dropped off the ridge east for about 10 metres you would enter a grassy clearing, that was too slopey for camping. Take a track north for about 20 metres and you would find a large campsite with numerous grassy tent spots and a large camp fire.

I agree with the need to mark the route. It took about 2 hours longer than it used to. I think that once the route is marked the number of users will quickly make an obvious pad on the ground. I first walked it about 30 years ago when it was marked with the lids of tin cans painted red and nailed to the trees.

I probably wouldn't be able to help before Christmas. Had a track clearing on Bungalow Spur (Mt Feathertop) on 23 Nov with Friends of Bogong, another coming up with Bushwalking Vic on 7/8 Dec in the Howqua river area. Maybe you should just arrange a date and advertise it and see who can come.