Numb toes in new boots.

[Speculator]

Hi all,

Just wondering if anyone has experienced what I'm experiencing with my new Scarpa Trek Pro's.

I recently upgraded from my cheap old EKO boots, I thought the new boots were okay, but during my first extended walk in them I started to get a little soreness under my first three toes, which laer turned into freaky numbness. It stayed with me for more than a week afterward.

So, what I'm getting is a numbness mostly underneath my toes, not on the ends like you would with boots that are too small. My new boots are correctly fitted and aren't too small. It feels very much like it comes from rubbing/pressure against the flat hard insole to me.

These boots were reasonably exxy so I'd like to try and work out what the problem is. This is particularly odd given I've never had any problems with any footwear before, I can usually wear anything, like my cheap ill-fitting EKO's which I wore for 5 years.

Anyone come across anything like this before? Or better yet, got any remedies?

L8r.

[tasadam]

Sounds odd.
Not getting any blisters? The inner sole on my Scarpas (not Trek) are pretty good, but I don't use them because I use orthotics.
Do you have orthotics? Are they full length or do they stop short of the toes? Have you removed the inner sole of the boots?
What socks do you wear?
I use two pairs of Explorer socks, it's always worked well for me so I have stuck with it.
Have you considered custom orthotics? I have these ones in my work shoes, very light weight, made from some foam that is heat-moulded to my feet. They heat them up with a hair dryer or heatgun, then hold it against the foot while it cools, then they trim it to fit your shoe (or boot) well. And they add additional cushioning where needed depending on what your foot needs. Works really well and lasts a long time too.

Do you think your problem might be related to -
- rubbing, like your feet are sliding a bit,
- pressure, like there isn't any room for you to lift your toes up when they're in the boot (even tho there's room in front of them),
- other, like if there's enough room for you to curl your toes more than you're used to, it could be that because the soles of these boots are so much stiffer, your feet are doing different things to what they are used to doing, and you are using your toes to help "push" your foot through each step, because of this unusual action (and perhaps not enough cushioning or too much room around your toes), they are suffering as a result...

I banged a thumb a while ago and it went numb in a small section for about a week. I guess I whacked a nerve.
I don't know where the nerves are in toes, are the boots wide enough? Are they a BX size or a BXX size?

[walkinTas]

Don't know if it'll help you, but the only time I ever had a problem with numbness was because my socks were a little too big and the tended to bunch up in odd places and cause pressure points.

[Taurë-rana]

Sounds to my inexpert ears like pressure on nerves too. I've been using gel inserts in my boots since I got them and found them good - about $20 from the chemist and I thought nearly cheap enough to buy a pair for each extended walk but they've lasted brilliantly. I had a manufacturing "bump" in my insole that was uncomfortable and these fixed it.

[Earthling]

Ive had the same thing happen to me a number of times before and its always been from my toes being too tight in the boot. Ive got a wide foot.
If the boots are leather you can get them stretched at a shoe repair/key shop or rub some extra oil into them and wear them around till the boot stretches to accomodate.
I found wiggling my toes at random intervals assists the circulation and stopped the numbing being as bad. Also wear them for short times( an hour or so) till they wear in. After a time my boots stretched and no more numbing sensation.

Edit...I also remember once getting it in a boot that was worn in...the inner sole had formed a lump in the front just behind the third toe (if my memory serves me correctly). This subsequent upwards pressure on the foot caused a loss of circulation to the toes, which in turn caused numbness.

[Speculator]

Hey guys,

Thanks for the replies. So, replying in reverse order:

Earthling - Legedary! Someone else with the same problem! The Trek Pro is a quite narrow boot now that I look at it, but I've never considered myself as having a wide foot, so I'm not sure whether we're looking at the same cause or not. I'll investigate stretching them though, thanks for the suggestion.

Taurë-rana - I was going to look into inserts too, thanks for that. Only problem I forsee with this is that most inserts don't offer much support under the toes, they're all about the heel and ball.

wT - Not sure if this is my problem, I think my socks aren't bunching up like this, will test it out though.

tasadam - I was getting a little blistering on my heels, but in new boots I assumed that's to be expected. I don't use orthotics. Never had any need for them, as I said, my last boots were fine, and I can usually wear anything. As for socks, I wear a merino (very thick) or possum (similar thickness to an explorer) sock. Sometimes I wear a lighter inner sock, but I don't think I have done in these boots so far. Custom orthotics? I wont rule them out, but I'd like to investigate less expensive options first.
I'm fairly sure the problem is related to rubbing or pressure, after a while it hurts when pressure is transferred from the whole foot to the front of the foot as I walk. I'm almost positive your theory about it being something to do with the stiffness of the sole and the way I walk (or the shape of my quite flat feet, or both) is close to the mark.

I'm off to have a word with the people who sold them to me today, and see if they have any ideas, then to look at inserts. Thanks for your suggestions guys, if anyone else has experienced this, please give us your 2c worth!

Thanks.

[bauera]

Might be worth a trip to a podiatrist. They can diagnose foot problems and design orthotics for individual requirements. Not cheap but well worth it. My wife's feet used to go black and blue because they spread too much (hyper-mobile joints in all her foot bones) and custom orthotics fixed that. A friend also experienced similar numbness which I believe may have been back related.

[freemandale]

I have a bad back too so when I experienced numb feet/toes I went to my Doctor, Physio and a Podiatrist. I couldn't walk for more than 2-3 hours over rocky/uneven ground (Tasmanian) before my 2nd/3rd toes would go numb, just before the shooting pains started.

Seems my problem wasn't my back or my feet (although they do complain) but my boots! Can't be - they cost me a fortune and came highly recommended!

From my perspective -

Lesson: The person working in the outdoor store during the holidays to pay off their Sports Science degree does not necessarily know very much about bush walking.

Lesson: Walking in a store for up to an hour gives you no idea of how comfortable said boots will be, regardless of how may pairs of socks you have on.

Lesson: Bigger boots (longer) won't ease the problem

Lesson: Not lacing the first two eyelets does not alieviate the problem (podiatrist said that shoes only need to be laced on the last 3-4 eyelets).

Lesson: Listen to experienced walker/store worker who has fitted many boots and suggests you may need a male/unisex fitting even though I have skinny/girly legs - feet are different apparently.

Perhaps your boots would benefit from un upward stretch - not width ways. Seems my boots were putting too much pressure downward on my feet.

I now have new boots and am happy to report that I recently spent days walking in Tas without stopping for anything other than food, water and to take photos. As it should be.

[bushrunner]

Perhaps your boots would benefit from un upward stretch - not width ways. Seems my boots were putting too much pressure downward on my feet.

.

What you are talking about there is generally referred to as "volume". It is an important feature of fitting a shoe/boot that generally goes ignored. Good job mentioning it.

[Dazza45]

For what it is worth I have a pair of Scarpa Trek Pro's and I got them to fit really well by firstly giving them a good dose of conditioner, then filling them up with warm water and put them on and wore them until they almost dried out (usually needs a couple of hours so I use them around work) and finally, when dry, give them another good dose of conditioner. Probably not recommended by the manufacturers however it worked on my old Treks so I tried on my new Trek Pro's and it worked again.

[Speculator]

Hi all,

Thanks for the suggestions. Last week I spoke to a very experienced walker in a particular bushwalking store, and she told me that it was just simply that I wasn't used to such a hard sole. Apparently some people's feet just react better to a softer footbed. This particular person was a an example.

So, I pulled out the ridiculous Scarpa insert and replaced it with something a bit softer, and after three days of walking this week (which I've just returned from) everything seems okay. No numbness. So I'll stick to that for a while and see if it continues to work for me. Here's hoping!

L8r.

[Ent]

Hi Speculator

I with AKU experience numb toes and the cause is the boots are too narrow and being the trendy plastic black Darth Vader type will unlikley expand much. They grip way to tight over the top of foot. Lucky for me I just fit in the widest fitting of the Scarpas but even then not until the leather moulds do they become very comfortable and that takes a reasonably long period of time compare to more flexible boots.

Cheers Brett

[tasadam]

I'm glad you've found your answer.
Re what I said before

Have you considered custom orthotics? I have these ones in my work shoes, very light weight, made from some foam that is heat-moulded to my feet. They heat them up with a hair dryer or heatgun, then hold it against the foot while it cools, then they trim it to fit your shoe (or boot) well. And they add additional cushioning where needed depending on what your foot needs. Works really well and lasts a long time too.

Even if you do not need Orthotics, you can get some of these custom foam ones, and you get a rebate with health insurance if you have it. They are very good, very light, and being shaped to your feet, you won't know yourself.
You do need to wear them in, starting an hour or two at a time, but once you are used to them you won't go back. Makes you more stable too.

I just went upstairs because I could remember seeing the instruction blurb I got with them...
They are called Formthotics. A Kiwi product.
More blurb here.

PM me if you want the name of a podiatrist that sells & fits them. Or you could contact the Australian arm of the company, 1800553504

[north-north-west]

Lucky for me I just fit in the widest fitting of the Scarpas but even then not until the leather moulds do they become very comfortable and that takes a reasonably long period of time compare to more flexible boots.

Why do so many people do this? If boots are that uncomfortable for that long,they really just don't fit you properly.
It is possible to get boots that fit without being 'worn in' for half their life and that will last.

[bushrunner]

Lucky for me I just fit in the widest fitting of the Scarpas but even then not until the leather moulds do they become very comfortable and that takes a reasonably long period of time compare to more flexible boots.

Why do so many people do this? If boots are that uncomfortable for that long,they really just don't fit you properly.
It is possible to get boots that fit without being 'worn in' for half their life and that will last.

Yeah but boots which fit are made in China so they are obviously crap. /irony

[Ent]

Lucky for me I just fit in the widest fitting of the Scarpas but even then not until the leather moulds do they become very comfortable and that takes a reasonably long period of time compare to more flexible boots.

Why do so many people do this? If boots are that uncomfortable for that long,they really just don't fit you properly.
It is possible to get boots that fit without being 'worn in' for half their life and that will last.

At size 49 there is not much if any other option. Actually the Scarpa SL with the notch in the lace area cut break in time to one day walk that I am getting ready to take over when the old ones fail. As for life I am wondering what will kill my original pair of Scarpas that pre-date the SL naming. The grip is wearing down but boy has that taken some miles.

Cheers Brett

PS "Irony" is that a play on iron ore and what happens when you sell it in China??????????

[bushrunner]

On the subject of Scarpa and longevity, I have noticed that the full grain leather models like the SL have no real toe protection. Does anyone find that the leather wears through in that spot?

[Ent]

On the subject of Scarpa and longevity, I have noticed that the full grain leather models like the SL have no real toe protection. Does anyone find that the leather wears through in that spot?

No but then given how thick it is a wonder what it would take to wear through so me thinks it only necessary if thin or inferior leather is used. Also in "trendy" DC street wear I find the protective rubber a restrictive point for blisters on my big and little toes.

Cheers Brett

[bushrunner]

Yes it seems to be very solid leather. I imagine as long as they are properly maintained they should be OK. Given that the SL in the bxx last is the widest model which Scarpa make it is on my "try on for next time" list.

[north-north-west]

At size 49 there is not much if any other option.

That's a big foot. I take a 4 1/2 - 5 EEE in men's sizes . . . with a B heel. I was thinking I'd have to have boots custom made to get anything that really fitted, until I found the Asolos.

[Ent]

At size 49 there is not much if any other option.

That's a big foot. I take a 4 1/2 - 5 EEE in men's sizes . . . with a B heel. I was thinking I'd have to have boots custom made to get anything that really fitted, until I found the Asolos.

Yes it means I have to be careful not to get such size feet in my mouth. Such delicate feet at 4 1/2 in length but wide at EEE, can I refer to you as Hobbit-foot? The Asolos are a great boot but sadly not sold in Tassie once the Backpackers Barn closed down.

Cheers Brett

[north-north-west]

Such delicate feet at 4 1/2 in length but wide at EEE, can I refer to you as Hobbit-foot?

It's fitting enough apart from the general unhairiness of my feet - I do tend to spend as much time as possible barefoot - although you'd never get me tramping around in snow the way they did.

[Ent]

You have to admire actors that face up to some pretty uncomfortable conditions to do their job. I love a documentary on the making of Lord of the Ring where the actor playing the Dawf saw to the props crew struggling up the hill with his custume and then once dress was told to run up the same hll

You are right of course with footwear, it is much better to ensure footwear fits well rather than hope it will mould to shape and I can understand with the sizing of your feet that you have enjured enough of the statements that the boot will strech to fit your foot. If leather maybe but is the year of suffering worth it? The sensible answer should be no. That being subject to an alternative existing.

Cheers Brett

[adventurerichard]

i'm no podiatrist but some innersoles have this little ridge in them under the ball of your foot lengthways. I know a lot of orthotics are made this way too. the idea is that there's this little nerve on the underside of your foot and the ridge stimulates this, causing in turn your toes to spread out more. North Face put it in their shoes and lots of aftermarket innersoles now seem to have them. Might be worth a shot. At the very least you'll get a better innersole than the crap most brands put in.