Gradually going off gas

[Moondog55]

Therefore looking at getting a new all-electric induction range.
Using next years skiing money to do it, trying to do a little bit to save the current civilisation [ the planet won't care, the Earth is neutral and will be here long after we're all gone] and all that.
I have no experience with induction cookware and I'm wondering if anybody here is using induction at the moment and could recommend any particular brand or style of cookware.
I do still often cook in large batches and I also use very hot ovens for roasting and pizza

[Son of a Beach]

We recently installed an induction cooktop. It is AMAZING. Loving it!!! So much better than any gas or convection stove I've ever used. Not even close.

Since cooktops are fairly expensive, I actually signed up for a Choice subscription. This decision really did make the choice very easy so the subscription is well worth it. You can do some research about what the various differences are, then do a comparison, filtering the results on your requirements. In our case, there was only one cooktop in the entire range that met all of our requirements, it also had one of the highest rankings, and was much cheaper than all the others with high rankings.

For us, the right answer was this one: Siemens iQ300 60cm Induction Cooktop

After it arrived, I found that my measurements were not quite right, and it was 2mm too wide to fit into the cut-out in our granite bench top. Wowzers, it's hard to get people to cut stone right now. The new regulations (complete ban) on cutting engineered stone shouldn't affect us (with natural stone), but a lot of people are too scared of getting fined, anyhow. Eventually I found a specialist stone cutter just down the road from me. $100 cash.

PS. Oh, this was about cookware, not cooktops. So...

Anything with a decent iron content in the base will work. If a magnet sticks to the base, it should be fine. The vast majority of our old cookware is fine. The only two items we had to replace was a coffee perculator, and a baking tray (we need a thick-based baking tray that we can roast in, and then put on the cooktop to make the gravy - the old one was aluminium, I think... didn't realise until we tried making gravy... because it was thick, it was quite heavy).

Scanpan seems to be a good brand, and as far as I know it's all induction-savvy. But most of the packaging will tell you if it will work on induction. They like to advertise it, so that you might buy it.

[crollsurf]

We got a Neff, which we are very happy with. Don't know how it compares with others.

Once you get used to it, the control you have is far superior to gas or electric. They look good and are easy to keep clean.

We don't have a problem with saucepans. Ours are stainless steel and cast iron


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[matagi]

Scanpan is pretty good. I bough t my nephew and his wife a full set for Christmas last year and grabbed a couple of frypans for myself. I’m quite happy with them.

It is currently heavily discounted at Minimax and you can buy online from Kitchen Warehouse.

[tastrax]

A good way to get started is with a portable unit (available in singles and doubles). We bought a single and use it most of the time from a normal power point. Also gives you a chance to test existing pots etc. Some are noisy but I think this one was recommended by Choice magazine. Its the one we purchased. Bound to find one on marketplace, fleabay or cheap at Aldi.

https://westinghousesmallappliances.com ... on-cooktop

PS some double cookers require 15Amp power point

[icefest]

We had an old freestanding oven/stove, and upgraded that to electric/induction. We went with a Bosch, and it's great.
My bread is better, the oven warms up faster, and I cam make by coffee in the moka pot in less than the time it takes to boil the kettle/make toast.

We are not big fans of non stick, as we feel bad needing to replace them when they are not non stick anymore, so have been really luck to be able to just keep using cast/rolled steel pans, and existing stainless pots.

The Ikea steel pan works better than cheaper nonstick pans:

Aluminium stuff won't work, but you can find these on marketplace second hand!

[Moondog55]

Maybe a quick trip to IKEA then.
Going shopping for the range later today
Anybody here switched to a heat pump hot water service?
We can't export anywhere near as much solar generated power as we produce; even in winter most days we have a lot of spare power.

[icefest]

I have a stiebel eltron heat pump HWS.
Mine has been set up to have smart home integration.
I have a choice of two temperatures: 60 and 65.
I can also switch the backup element on and off.

Together, I can run the HWS basically either from solar output, or add on the element during the 3 free importing hours (11am to 2pm) that I get with my plan.

Screenshot 2024-08-04 112321.png (19.16 KiB) Viewed 14152 times

As I was replacing a gas storage unit, I've calculated the payback period of this to be ~4.8 years.
Honestly, if your house has a big enough solar system/grid connection, you would be just as well off just using a variable output relay that tracks solar exported and dumps it into your existing electric HWS.
For example the catch relay does this, and it's cheaper than a new heat pump HWS, and should last longer.

[Moondog55]

Current HWS is gas, we've been advised that we can choose a "Smart" HWS app to only heat when we have solar power available and a no resistive element unit.
Out current HWS is big enough to cater for when the grandkids stay over, which is quite often and for up the a fortnite at a time. Our current storage HWS is about 7YO

[Moondog55]

So the question we need answered is possibly how big a tank will hold us over those days when we generate very little power?
The Boss is in charge of the system as for some reason my phone and computer can't use the App that came as part of the solar install; we are still debating our need for a large battery pack to store some of the excess power we generate while we can still afford to pay for one before Cecile retires

[icefest]

Can't easily answer that question, but can discuss a few of my own experiences:

We have a 220L cylinder. When heated to the max of 65°c that is the same as 360L of water at 45°c (mixing valve).
With a 5L/min water saving shower head (Methven kirin - great shower head; feels like a regular amount of water) that is one hours worth of showering.

If we heat up the water to 65°c, then it cools down to 55°c overnight, without using hot water, this means that I can get away with only heating every second day if we must.
You can greatly decrease this heat loss with extra insulation, but only if you don't have an one piece integrated heat pump.

[johnw]

1. Have had an induction cooktop for over 15 years when we had kitchen reno done. Fisher and Paykel, though I wouldn't necessarily recommend them these days. Have had failures with oven and washing machine. That said the cooktop is fantastic compared with previous old electric gear (never had gas at our current house). I think we did buy some new cookware at the time but nothing special. I'm pretty sure it's mostly no name budget stuff from a kitchenware store in one of the major shopping centres. All still in use and works fine. We do have one very large pot/saucepan with a glass lid, maybe 6 litres? Mrs only uses it for boiling larger batches of Spag Bol, pasta etc. Kmart pots and pans often get very good reviews from Choice and are usually very cheap.

2. We went solar just over 2 years ago. Around the same time our ancient Rheem solar boosted HWS was on the way out, so I bought a Reclaim Energy 315 litre heat pump unit after researching them to death. There are three of us here most of the time and occasional sleepovers by small granddaughters. Haven't run out of hot water so far. Not the cheapest but has been reliable so far, except for a failure of the main circuit board a few months after installation. Fixed the same day under warranty and no issues since. I got the installer to set it up to run during the day when solar output is at its maximum. There are user adjustable features but I haven't had a need to play around with them to date. I got a substantial govt rebate but still cost a bit. Check out current rebate options. My brother recently had a smaller unit installed under a govt scheme and only paid $34-00. We are in NSW but I think it may have been a federal thing.

3. I've looked into solar batteries umpteen times and the consistent advice is that they make no financial sense at current prices, longevity etc. That includes from all the solar installers I spoke to before buying our system. Recently participated in a gov sponsored energy use survey. The "reward" for that was a detailed energy assessment of our property and a further phone consultation with an energy consultant. I pushed them both hard about getting a battery, as we only have RC air con for winter heating so have to run it at night for a period. Both times ruled it out as not economically viable at the current time. The payback period always exceeds the life expectancy of the battery. I live in hope.

[Moondog55]

John that's interesting as it is a F&P range we are looking at, but while the induction top looks like most of the others the oven features look excellent and I use an oven a lot. Does need 67Amperes tho which would take us up to our limit.
If going fully electric being supply limited to 67Amps at the street connection makes no sense to me.
But we generate so much power here on a good day that most of it goes to waste, and yes a battery is still too expensive for the payback period but seems to be improving, although our solar installer also said to wait and only get if a big rebate gets offered; we just hate wasting all that excess power.

[johnw]

John that's interesting as it is a F&P range we are looking at, but while the induction top looks like most of the others the oven features look excellent and I use an oven a lot. Does need 67Amperes tho which would take us up to our limit.
If going fully electric being supply limited to 67Amps at the street connection makes no sense to me.
But we generate so much power here on a good day that most of it goes to waste, and yes a battery is still too expensive for the payback period but seems to be improving, although our solar installer also said to wait and only get if a big rebate gets offered; we just hate wasting all that excess power.

The F&P cooktop has worked flawlessly. We have a separate wall oven and the main element blew in the F&P one twice. I had it repaired the first time but out of warranty so had to pay for it. Second time was only about 18 months later so decided to replace the oven rather than repair again. Ranges may be a different animal. I'd still consider F&P if looking again but I'd do the research as thoroughly as possible. We did replace the F&P washing machine with a Haier unit last year, which is part of the same Chinese company these days. Not sure if they still have any NZ interests. Haier has been fine so far.

All our excess solar is exported to the grid. Currently getting 10 cents/kWh feed in tariff, which is not too bad currently. Do you have that option, doesn't sound like you are off grid, something else going on re the 67 amp limit? Obviously we're getting charged a lot more for grid usage drawn. Which is why we do as much as possible when the sun shines; cooking, washing, dishwasher, pool pump, hot water heating and so on.

[Moondog55]

The range is one that needs a 67 Amp circuit, if I happened to be busy in the kitchen using the top and the oven together [ and I can see me doing that] and I decide to use the second oven or the toaster/kettle while other appliances are in use I trip the main switch; or worst case blow the input fuse and have to call PowerCorp to come and replace it.
67 Amps simply isn't enough for a modern all electric house with a large induction range, we'll be getting our sparky to ask for the upgrade and then see what the pirates want to charge us for getting back what this house had originally in 1954

[icefest]

With a battery, the main CB rating is less of an issue than you might think!
We've been limited to grid connections of 32A, single phase.
With a battery we can use 12kw, (battery 6kw and import 6kw) without needing any electrical upgrades!


Our big loads:
7.6kw oven/induction stove (on a 32A CB)
2x split system ac/heaters both 2kw
2kw washing machine
1kw dishwasher.
1.8kw water heater.

[Moondog55]

Yes I've been reading about stiffening the mains supply with a battery, that might be the next step

[Moondog55]

Our Sparky just had a 2 minute rage attack about the government. The new wiring rules mean the new 10mm<2 cable has to be down-rated to a measly 42A and his comment is that "they" want and need us to go off gas as our primary domestic power source but won't upgrade the grid to actually allow us to do so.

[Moondog55]

Link to the range we are contemplating.
Note that it is rated at 67Ampere and with the new wiring rules that means a 25mm<2 cable, which physically can't be installed in our switchbox and is bigger than the supply mains from the street which are 16mm<2
https://www.fisherpaykel.com/au/cooking ... 81693.html

[johnw]

That sucks. Not sure if this info is useful (I used the site to choose our solar installer, and still use it for battery research, plans etc).
https://www.solarquotes.com.au/blog/solar-skinny-grid-connections/
But looks like rules etc probably vary state to state, how unusual .
We've had 3 phase power for ducted aircon since early 90s. To date no issues with grid connection for any work we've had done.
Also had the switchboard upgraded when we did bathroom renovations in 2020.
And mysteriously we were switched to a smart meter last year. Just arrived home one day and there it was, no communication.

[Moondog55]

F&P technical support won't talk to me so I have to get my sparky to call them.
I think that the problem is not splitting the hob function from the oven function at the supply input

[stry]

A mate had a heat pump HWS installed a few months ago.

He has an engineering background (FWIW) and is pleased with it so far.

Waiting for an evaluation of running costs.

[Moondog55]

We have had the sparky run all the new cabling but while a heat pump HWS is next we are now on the fence regarding the cooking range.
We need our solar panels upgraded to better utilize winter sun and a hybrid battery system first.
Or maybe not.
Change is so rapid it's hard to keep up and so far there isn't any government assistance with battery installs here in Victoria or at the Federal level

[johnw]

Be interested to know what you decide re the battery. Don't think I'll ever give up my quest to find a financially viable solution to retrofit a battery.
Yeah I can't find any rebates either. Might have to get in the ear of my local MPs, if only to sow some seeds.

[Moondog55]

We are simply not generating enough power through the winter to make a battery viable ATM; while generally happy with the solar installation the panels are not tilted for winter maximisation and the install company is now ignoring our emails and phone calls.
We have the roof space to add another set of panels oriented to the North and I think that is worth doing.
Going hybrid tho would mean replacing some expensive bits as well as the cost of the battery.

[johnw]

If you can afford more panels my thoughts are go for it. We have two banks of panels, one facing roughly NE and the other SW. Without checking I think one bank is 20 panels and the other 18. That seems to work for us. I remember much discussion with the installer about my desired capacity and optimum panel placement. He sent a drone up a did a lot of calculations to get what we ended up with. We export a lot of excess power back to the grid in spring, summer, autumn and still a reasonable amount through winter. My problem is that we rely on A/C for winter heating. The house now stays quite cool throughout summer after I had the roof insulation replaced 18 months ago. But it's a double edged sword in that unfortunately it now really never warms up significantly in winter, so the A/C goes on from late afternoon. Hence my desire to retrofit a battery. Apparently a battery only rebate scheme is supposed to start in NSW from November. I'm still trying to understand how it works, amount etc. Maybe other states will follow?

[Moondog55]

The rewiring is finished; well it was finished a while ago but we've been busy doing other stuff for a while.
Been playing with a small portable induction unit and while OK it isn't what I need so we are still looking at a replacement range.
Ditto the new hot water unit. While I don't like chucking out something only half way though its lifespan; the economic benefits of going to a heat pump HWS over ten years are greater than the dollar loss on the gas unit. The $50- ALDI induction unit cuts out at 240C which means it won't char steaks or do stir fry, cooks soup OK tho if you use a pot somewhat smaller than maximum

[Son of a Beach]

Induction is interesting from a power usage point of view. My understanding is that it actually uses quite a lot of power while cooking, but the intelligence in the sensors and controls make sure that it wastes less power overall. Eg, it will stop all power to a zone as soon as the pot is removed from that zone (and start again if the pot is replaced); on multi-size zones, it will automatically make sure that it powers up only the correct parts of the zone to best match the pot that is on it.

Ours has a 'boost' mode which ramps up the power considerably, boiling a pot of water (about 1.5 litres) in well under minute (that's faster than our microwave). It's astonishingly fast. However, this mode uses so much power that it cannot be used on more than two zones at once.

[Moondog55]

We'll investigate further in the New Year. Cecile has booked a Pacific Cruise for her Christmas holidays and understandably I have to travel with here to carry the bags

[Moondog55]

I've given the IKEA cast iron a reasonable trial on induction and it's not for us. I'll have to sell the lot and try and get something better. A shame that IKEA stopped the mild steel pans.