Sleeping Bags

[ninjapuppet]

can anyone post a photo of a Western mountaineering bag, or one planet bag squashed up into its stuffsack, with stated dimensions?

I cant seem to find any pictures on the net of packed up bags.
and are weights fairly accurate and close to stated weights?

[Earthling]

can anyone post a photo of a Western mountaineering bag, or one planet bag squashed up into its stuffsack, with stated dimensions?

I cant seem to find any pictures on the net of packed up bags.
and are weights fairly accurate and close to stated weights?

Its not a photo...however WM have the stated dimensions second collumn from the right.

http://www.westernmountaineering.com/in ... ntentId=71

[photohiker]

This is a WM UltraLite Long (200cm) with 50g overfill:

WM_UL.jpg (34.49 KiB) Viewed 14418 times

Stuffed Size is about 360mm long by 170 diameter. (these are max sizes - the ends are curved)

Weight is 975g including stuff sac.

[ninjapuppet]

Thanks Michael,

website indicates that your model is meant to be 870 g 18x33cm ?
and with your 50g extra fill = 920g
so your 975g with stuffsac shows that the specs appear spot on.

can the sleeping bag be compressed any further?
I saw a OP zephyr in the shops, and was quite shocked to see how big it packed. I think i'll prefer a WM for its packed size.

[photohiker]

Thanks Michael,

website indicates that your model is meant to be 870 g 18x33cm ?
and with your 50g extra fill = 920g
so your 975g with stuffsac shows that the specs appear spot on.

can the sleeping bag be compressed any further?
I saw a OP zephyr in the shops, and was quite shocked to see how big it packed. I think i'll prefer a WM for its packed size.

I'm sure it can be packed tighter, but I think the message is that past a certain point the down doesn't recover so easily. Mine lives in its big storage bag when not on a trip - I had to pack it to do a test packing for Scotland 2 weeks away, so thought I'd grab a pic for you while it was in it's stuffsac. People generally suggest if you have space in your pack then pack them looser. Not for me this trip, I'm out of space

[Ent]

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[Son of a Beach]

Thanks Michael,

website indicates that your model is meant to be 870 g 18x33cm ?
and with your 50g extra fill = 920g
so your 975g with stuffsac shows that the specs appear spot on.

can the sleeping bag be compressed any further?
I saw a OP zephyr in the shops, and was quite shocked to see how big it packed. I think i'll prefer a WM for its packed size.

I'm sure it can be packed tighter, but I think the message is that past a certain point the down doesn't recover so easily. Mine lives in its big storage bag when not on a trip - I had to pack it to do a test packing for Scotland 2 weeks away, so thought I'd grab a pic for you while it was in it's stuffsac. People generally suggest if you have space in your pack then pack them looser. Not for me this trip, I'm out of space

Agreed. I have a Zephyr, and the stuff sack is a lot bigger than it needs to be. Ie, stuff sack also contains the built in, larger, netting bag (for storage at home), and I also stuff in my silk liner, and I still feel like there's room left for a pillow. If I was short on space in my pack, I'd consider using the stuff sack's built in compression straps, but haven't found a need for that yet, so havent tried to see how small I can get it down to.

[blacksheep]

To add more to think about in this categorey...this range uses 800+ goose down, light weight (20d) fabric and comes with a seam taped/roll tops stuff bag. Of significance (aside from the efficiency to weight/pack size ratio) is the fact this range uses a long length zipper (175cm long). Based partly the popular Fairydown superlite bags, we really wanted a bag that ticked all the light weight boxes, but with a less limited aplication- we wanted these bags to work across a wider temperature range, which necessitated the use of a longer zip than most other use (yes it adds a handful of gram, but well worth it we believe)
http://www.macpac.co.nz/shop/en_nz/gear ... leepingbag

[photohiker]

seam taped/roll tops stuff bag

That's a good feature. The WM stuff bag has no pretence of waterproofness, the material is resistant, but the closure is open. I pack it inside a sil drybag, and pack that inside the drybag pack liner.

[adventurerichard]

can anyone post a photo of a Western mountaineering bag, or one planet bag squashed up into its stuffsack, with stated dimensions?

I cant seem to find any pictures on the net of packed up bags.
and are weights fairly accurate and close to stated weights?

I know (cos i have some) that One Planet put the exact weight of the bag in your hand on their label inside the bag (where the date of manufacture is). They are all within a few gms of what it says on their website and i'm not going to argue about 4g!

one thing to think about too is that just looking at the bag packed up is no real indication. some brands offer really big bags so it's easy to get the bag into, others make them small to look good in the store. Think of it this way: 8L stuff sack but compresses down to 4L or, a 5L stuff stuff sack (i.e. smaller uncompressed) that compresses down to 4L.

[Liamy77]

Has anyone had a play with or an opinion on the Exped waterbloc 800 on a downmat 7 deluxe mat as a combo? looking at getting a lighter weight winter kit...(i am carrying about 4.8kg for -6'C tested at the moment) i ideally want a warm, roomy long bag and mat under 2-3 kgs but comfy and warm - any suggestions? was looking at a down bag with waterproofing rather than a bivi i think as i like to be able to cook and keep my pack dry at hand..... so i usually carry a tent or hammock and tarp...

[Ent]

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[mlndstream]

Hi all,

I'm about to make a considerable investment into a winter sleeping bag, and I'm stuck on one design feature relating to down sleeping bags, so I'm after feedback as to what everyone else finds is best for them and why, and that feature is 'continuous baffles'(so you can move the down from the top side of the bag to the bottom side of the bag during warmer weather) or 'compartmentalized baffles'(where the down is locked/sewn into compartments so the down can't move around at all)

I've only ever had synthetic sleeping bags, and I was planning on buying a down bag with continuous baffles, as in theory the idea of moving the down to the underside of the bag in the warmer months gave more versatility as to when I can use it, and I find it strange many people don't like 'continuous baffles' as they complain about 'lumping' of the down and 'drafts'? and that you don't get these problems with 'compartmentalized baffles', but at the same time companies like Western Mountaineering make some pretty expensive top end sleeping bags with continuous baffles so their must be a market for them out there?
Also, I was wondering if the continuous baffles feature is really worthwhile as I thought it may be possible to just 'vent' a compartmentalized bag? or if it's that warm just use it as a duvet or not at all:)?

So I'm just interested in other peoples experiences with both and why they prefer one design to the other

[Ent]

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[Son of a Beach]

I reckon sleeping bags and all their zips, ties, etc are annoying enough to sleep in without having to manipulate the down into the areas you want (or out of the areas you don't want), and then having to remember to manipulate it back again when your needs change.

I've never had any problems using my sleeping bags like a doona, or leaving zips partially open at either end to get some temperature control.

[enduro]

I spend a few days on a cold, blustery cape on the south of West AU with about 4C temps each night. I was under a tarp, in a OR Alpine Bivy and in my Marmot Hydrogen -1, while dressed in Merino Icebreaker 200 leggings and 260 top. I could feel the cold bighting in from above (nothing from below) so I have since purchased a WA Ultralite -7 bag for the upcoming Overland Track trip.

[DanH]

I spend a few days on a cold, blustery cape on the south of West AU with about 4C temps each night. I was under a tarp, in a OR Alpine Bivy and in my Marmot Hydrogen -1, while dressed in Merino Icebreaker 200 leggings and 260 top. I could feel the cold bighting in from above (nothing from below) so I have since purchased a WA Ultralite -7 bag for the upcoming Overland Track trip.

... and there lies the problem with "temp range" of sleeping bags... while Enduro was uncomfortable at 4, I am quite comfortable in my Hydrogen down to 0 in a BPL tarp bivy and have gone comfortably to -5 with additional layers...

I believe one of the better ways to determine warmth is to lay the bag down flat... measure the height of the 'loft' at the 'chest' of the bag and agian at the 'knees'.. divide by two and you have how much 'loft' - and therefore how much air the bag traps - a particular bag has... it is a good ball park indication of warmth... eg the Marmot Hydrogen is a 4-5in bag easily good to 0 for me... the WM Summerlight is a 3 1/2in bag fine to 5 for me - gets me to 0 no trouble with a lofted jacket, longs, socks, beanie and gloves

IMHO one of the minuses with 800+ loft fill is the loss of loft in humid enviroments (and no drying) after a week or so ... 800+loft being more susceptible to compression than say 500 loft... which is why you should never use a compression style bag with high loft down - great way to kill your expensive loft.

FTW I prefer continuous baffles... very easy to shift the down for warmer weather and I can get away with 1/2 zips which are 100g or so lighter...

[enduro]

"WA Ultralite -7 bag" should read WM for Western Mountaineering ...

[Franco]

"continuous baffles"
seams baffling how we always get conflicting comments, but I can see both sides.
As Brett pointed out it does sound good in theory and it is in reality if you are able to sleep in one position (preferably on your back) and stay there.
Of course as a dedicated tosser it does not really work for me. However when I use the Ultralite as a quilt, I seam to turn less or at least without moving the bag so then it works.

Compression
As far as the ongoing how far you can compress down debate goes, I happen to have two Macpac Neve' bags , about 15 year old both have been washed two or three times.
One has not been compressed for more than a few days at a time for over a decade, the other was compressed in his tiny stuff sack for almost two years.
Once I let it breath again took a bit longer than usual to puff up but came back pretty much the same as the other.
( I am waiting for Blacksheep to make the same bag with lighter fabric....)
Stuff sack

I now prefer to have the SB in a larger than supplied stuff sack and let the rest of the gear compress it down to whatever space is available. That avoids having wasted space around the ball shaped bag.
Franco

[Rod]

Hey Franco -love your posts both here and on BPL -so please take this the right way
"...as a dedicated tosser..."
This one nearly made me spit my coffee all over the place...
Cheers
Rod

[Franco]

Rod
I am not sure about your qualifications but I have been told by paid experts that I am.
And you cannot argue with them because they charge extra for that.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=teMlv3ripSM
( I have just realised why Michael Palin looks so familiar. He looks exactly like me in that sketch)
Apparently I am also a loud snorer, (not sure about that, 'cause I don't really notice) hence my personal preference for solo tents...
Franco

[DanH]

I find continuous baffles adds enormously to the versatility of a bag I am a side sleeper and just clear a 6in wide section on the bottom of the bag… get someone to show how this is done and you will find it is a 30sec job that effectively gives a few more degrees in warmth. Like everything experience is the thing… some folks like quilts I personally found them of limited versatility for the small weight saving

Some of my thoughts on down and loft
All down bags loose loft eventually … the fine down breaks and crushes after awhile - that is how nature works… any physicality will damage delicate down to some degree eg washing a bag will take away loft – though not a lot if done carefully – more washing takes away more loft… however the higher loft rating you use the more light and delicate the down is - that is how the 800+ down lofts higher in the first place… higher loft down is more susceptible to washing, compressing, being slept in without enough drying, also it won’t last as long as more rugged lower rated down ie it won’t keep its amount of trapped air – that’s the cons of expensive down …
…rather than ‘eyeballing’ your bag, get some quantitative data and measure all your bags … then go to a shop and measure a new one…
In my experience if you treat a bag well, store it fully lofted, wear full length clothing or silk liner, (ie don’t get in naked and greasy after a day or three hard work) and therefore don’t have to wash very often... a 500-600 loft down will loose around 1-2in of loft in a 6in bag over 10years or so…
Also in my experience a well used high loft bag can loose loft in half that time – more so if you use compression bags a lot - IMHO (washing a high loft bag ie 800+ is also fraught with danger as the light fabric, thread and stitching used in the baffles and outer is more fragile) but if you can save 300-400g it maybe worth the effort.

[Franco]

"get someone to show how this is done "

Believe it or not but just like with sex I also taught myself on how exactly that should be done.
Maybe I am talented that way.
The problem is that some people (me and myself for two) when we turn we grab the bag and end up with the bottom of the bag on top
(the bit with less down because I have shifted that to the top, see I do have that figured out...)
Now because there is very little down on said bottom I get cold and wake up...
And BTW, your experience (or not) in washing an 800 (or 850 in my case) bag and mine differ.
( I do it in my bathtub, by hand...)

Franco

[blacksheep]

Believe it or not but just like with sex I also taught myself on how exactly that should be done.
something something something
( I do it in my bathtub, by hand...)

Franco

I skimmed your post France, that is what I read...wow..
yes, the Neve was/is a great bag...but the *&%$#! sleeping mat market has so many shapes and standrads now do you think a re-introduced Neve/Pinnacle bag would work? (I still use half bags quite a bit too...so good!)

[stu]

I have both a Macpac Sanctuary 900 XP (winter bag) & a Macpac Epic 450 SF (got one of the last ones in existence I think massively reduced).
I love the 450 - light, waterproof, pretty much air proof (ie. when you get in it puffs up with air which barely escapes).
At only 850g it is my multi-day expedition bag of choise.
I don't even mind the very short 1/4 zip, reduces weight & increases warmth / air tightness.
If it's that hot inside I sleep on top in my silk liner.
Pity you're (Campbell / Macpac) not making this model anymore, i think it superior to your current line of UL bags.

Stu.

[Franco]

Blacksheep
I don't use it much because my Ultralite is lighter and warmer, or I use a quilt.
However I don't fall off the Neve' and if it was made with lighter fabrics I would use it
You could even consider a slightly rubbery finish on the bottom of the sleeve so that it can grip better those silnylon floors (striped) some now use.
I think that many desire a wider mat simply because they move away from the center and on a standard 50cm wide type even I (at 68 kg) find that
a bit of a pain. Having the mat locked in solves that.
I suppose you could add a zip to the sleeve to accomodate thicker mats, ie std sleeve for up to 4cm and the extension to take the 7cm type and just ignore Brett and the two others that use the 9 cm type.

BTW, you would know how small that stuff sack is, so to have the down re-loft after about two years of captivity says a lot to me.

I might do some thinking about that.

Franco

[Moondog55]

Keeping this thread makes more sense than starting a new one.
I need a new summer bag, but I also want to be able to use it as a liner for my J&H Ultra if need be. Has anyone been using their One planet Cocoon for long enough to give a report?
It is the closest bag to the old J&H Rockledge that was the basis of my first half sack.
I have been toying with the idea of ordering one with the top half massively underfilled ( sort of like the Feathered Friends Vireo )

[Mountain Rocket]

I have a custom One Planet Cocoon -5 and have done for a year or so now. What comments are you seeking Moondog?

[Moondog55]

Thanx for the reply Robert.
Is the foot portion generous on the new cut bag as i found the old Rockledge a little small.

Is the down holding up and is it worth paying the extra for the 850+ goose down Vs the standard down in terms of loft retention over time?
How tight is the bag around the chest area
How robust or otherwise is the 10D fabric?
What would your opinion be on using it as the inner for a double bag system?

Geelong doesn't have a store that stocks OP gear

[enduro]

Thanx for the reply Robert.
Is the foot portion generous on the new cut bag as i found the old Rockledge a little small.

Is the down holding up and is it worth paying the extra for the 850+ goose down Vs the standard down in terms of loft retention over time?
How tight is the bag around the chest area
How robust or otherwise is the 10D fabric?
What would your opinion be on using it as the inner for a double bag system?

Geelong doesn't have a store that stocks OP gear

Hi Moondog55,

A failure of many online product reviews is that people do not list measurements when asking or providing information. For example, who hasn't read many reviews and seen "it performed well on a cold summer night", or "the bag was too small for me". In both these instances, the actual temperature, weather conditions and sleeping arrangement for the former and in the latter divulging that the review was 140kg and 210cm would have helped readers a lot.

If I was posting this, I'd be mentioning my own physical measurements so as not to be mislead. In your case, what it you height and chest/shoulder circumference?