Sleeping Bags

[photohiker]

Updated Chart.

I found the specs for the long Mont Bell bags on the US site and updated the chart. Also added a column for Shell weight. I think the weights are now correct for the long bags from OP, WM and Mont Bell. Cannot find the fill specs for the long Mont bags anywhere. Should have rung them yesterday.

I'm leaning towards importing the Ultralite overfill. It has the best quality down, the lightest shell and is basking in a lot of good press. Also works out the same or cheaper than the local prices of the standard fill Ultralite or the other bags.

SleepingBags2.jpg (34.17 KiB) Viewed 13678 times

[Nuts]

Hi Nuts,

I'm currently looking at getting a 3/4 season bag rated to approx -10, and the Marmot Pinnacle is on my shortlist. Have you had any experience with the bag? The only problem I can see is that it doesn't have a full length zipper.

Cheers
Luke

Marmot Pinnacle

aHR0cDovL3M3b25kZW1hbmQxLnNjZW5lNy5jb20vaXMvaW1hZ2UvTW9vc2VqYXdNQi8xMDAyMDk0M3gxMDExMDc4X3ptPyRwcm9kdWN0NDc1JA==.jpg (32.45 KiB) Viewed 13668 times

Hi luke, the pinnacle is a very nice bag, lofts sooo much, -9c ES rated, <1100gms, DWR coated shell, 800+ fill, can be found as low as $250us...
The zip ive never found to be an issue, pretty much the perfect design for a mummy bag. It goes to the footbox and with the double zippers you can stick or air out your feet (not that i find that you do in a cold weather bag so much). they do make an 850+ fill ultra-light range (very nice, 820gms for the -9c, though a bit dearer)

[luke_vic]

Thanks for the info Nuts. Is the pinnacle a bag you have had experience with then? The temperature range as listed on the website as UC -5.4, LC -12 E -31.5, see below:
http://marmot.com/fall_2008/equipment/s ... /certified

Is the old version of the Pinnacle rated to -9?

Also, does the DWR coated actually work, or is it just a marketing speel?

[Nuts]

Hi Luke,

The rating on the bag is 15F/-9C, I guess that this is the rating used to define the bag and somewhere within the comfort level for male/female. In use the EN figures appear very close to accurate (though I have occasionally seen people who would be cold in a -18 bag in postitive temperatures....)

I have the current full range of marmot (down) bags (except the lithium).

[Nuts]

Oh and,
Personally, as mentioned i think i prefer a cover/bivy over a waterproof shell. The DWR shell does the job though like any of these bags, stitching is not waterproof. The Marmot ultralights (ie @ -9 = Helium( beautiful bags!) ) go back to the normal shell, often i'll use one of these (either -1, -9 or (Couloir)-18 in snow), an Outdoor Research Bivvy and light tarp. If its used in a good tent (with adequate ventilation and w/proof) id probably choose the u/lite range they seem to 'breath' better (as they do in a bivvy)

nuts

[luke_vic]

Thanks again Nuts, so far I'm leaning towards the Pinnacle over the Helium, due to the Pinnacle EN rating showing it's a slightly warmer bag (LC -12.2 versus LC -8.7). Are the Marmot stuff sacks waterproof like Macpac ones? Also, are there reasons why I should look at other Marmot bags other than the Pinnacle? I know the Helium is slightly lighter for example...

Sorry have to ask one more thing - are you affiliated with Marmot in any way, or just very a happy customer?

[Ent]

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[photohiker]

Found the Mont Fill via the bogong PDF Luke posted in the down thread. They add 50g to the long bags. I've added 50g to both the total weight and the fill. Also added the Pinnacle as best I could, details are sketchy on the web.

Those Mont bags have heavy shells hey?

SleepingBags3.jpg (58.27 KiB) Viewed 13632 times

I've done gone ordered the WM Ultra in long overfill. Should cost $560 landed (including a luxury WM down pillow!) depending on currency fluctuations...

[Nuts]

Hi Luke,

No, if the Pinnacle(or similar designs) suits your needs then thats great. I suspect that with bag options with similar fill and w/proof outer, its mainly the shell thats trapping more heat. I really wouldnt get too hung up on the figures. The rating system establishes that they are likely to be in the target range and that the manufacturer is genuine but doesn't tell the full story (eg a lot of bags can be a tight fit to reduce figures given for weight, etc etc) As others have mentioned, you will get more or less what you pay for, you will get more again (still) by buying from OS. Once a bag gets to 800+ fill, there is some conjecture as to whether the statements are accurate (ie.. 850/900 may be more statement than fact, I dont think this is a measurement taken for standards to be reached)

Marmot comes with a silicon/nylon stuffsac... has a hole in the top so no, not w'Proof...... however we have always used a plastic bag in the stuff sac as a liner for added security (the new 'scented' kitchen bags can be good )

p'hiker, here's marmot helium figures for your chart (theyre abt $360us..) (though i suspect that you have mixed some manufacturers 'seasons/models?? )
Specs
Weight: 1 lb 15 ozs / 879 g
Fill Weight: 19.5 ozs / 552.8 g
Main Material: LightForce N-120R DWR
Lining Material: LightForce P-100 DWR Taffeta
Insulation Material: 850+ Goose Down
Size for stature: 183 cm
Size on shoulder: 157 cm
Size on hip: 147 cm
Size on foot: 102 cm
Colors: 025 - Pacifica
EN 13537 Tested
(Learn to read EN numbers.)

Comfort: 27.7F / -2.4C
Lower Limit: 16.3F / -8.7C
Extreme: -16.6F / -27C

[Ent]

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Last edited by Ent on Thu 11 Nov, 2010 3:16 pm, edited 1 time in total.

[photohiker]

p'hiker, here's marmot helium figures for your chart (theyre abt $360us..) (though i suspect that you have mixed some manufacturers 'seasons/models?? )
Specs
Weight: 1 lb 15 ozs / 879 g
Fill Weight: 19.5 ozs / 552.8 g
Main Material: LightForce N-120R DWR
Lining Material: LightForce P-100 DWR Taffeta
Insulation Material: 850+ Goose Down
Size for stature: 183 cm
Size on shoulder: 157 cm
Size on hip: 147 cm
Size on foot: 102 cm
Colors: 025 - Pacifica
EN 13537 Tested
(Learn to read EN numbers.)

Comfort: 27.7F / -2.4C
Lower Limit: 16.3F / -8.7C
Extreme: -16.6F / -27C

Hi Nuts,

Not sure what you mean by "mixed some manufacturers 'seasons/models??" Please elaborate.

The EN numbers would be useful, but it's not as straightforward as that when several of the manufacturers in the chart don't publish the figures (or don't have their bags tested) (or publish them in a crazy unreadable chart like Mont). Is there a central repository for the numbers, or is this another standard where the drunks have the keys to the drinks cabinet?

If I've made errors in the chart, please be specific and I will gladly correct it.

Happy to add the helium. The chart is populated with the long models, not the standard models. Those Helium specs are for standard length ?

I'll also upload the spreadsheet file if the forum will allow so that others can update it. Could be useful if it gathered current specs for likely bags as people do their research.

Michael

[Nuts]

Yes, no the chart is a good idea. Just wondering whether those brands have models closer to each other? ie their winter? summer three season range? There is a big difference in the temperature ratings for those on the chart is all...

BTW: 'Learn to Read EN numbers' is a clickable link on the spec sheet, not my statement personally i think its more important to know your own 'EN numbers', they dont mean much until youve used a bag thats rated to see where You fit -as can be seen in the chart, there can be a big range between 'levels'... personally i fond them coservative by 2/3 degrees, others do also (or warmer) some very much dont

specs (and other, probably equally important info) for Long marmot helium:


Specs
Weight: 2 lb 0 ozs / 907 g
Fill Weight: 21.5 ozs / 609.5 g
Main Material: LightForce 1.2 oz 100% Nylon Ripstop DWR
Lining Material: LightForce 1.0 oz 100% Polyester Taffeta DWR
Insulation Material: 850+ Goose Down
Size for stature: 198 cm
Size on shoulder: 163 cm
Size on hip: 152 cm
Size on foot: 107 cm
Colors: 025 - Pacifica
EN 13537 Tested
(Learn to read EN numbers.)

Comfort: 27.7F / -2.4C
Lower Limit: 16.3F / -8.7C
Extreme: -16.6F / -27C
Features

Certified 850+ Fill Goose Down The Best Weight to Warmth Down in the Market; Independently Tested and Certified by International Down and Feather Laboratory in Salt Lake City, Utah. Retested at Fill Time in Santa Rosa to Ensure 850+ Fill Power Every Time. If the Down Does Not Meet Our In-House Test, We Send It Back
Classic Trapezoidal Foot Box For More Foot Room
Full-length Zipper
Hood Draw Cord Positioned for Easy Access
Insulated Draft Tube Eliminates Cold Leaks Through the Zipper
Passive Collar
Stuff and Storage Sack Included Store and Pack Just Like Your Sleeping Bag
Velcro®-free Face Muff Keeps the Drawcord and Zipper Away from Your Face
Zipper Guards Help Repel Biting Zipper Coils

[photohiker]

Nuts.

You're probably right about the mixed bags. Basically, the chart started with what I was interested in and then grew as others asked about or suggested other bags.

Here's the latest. I've rejigged the temp columns to more closely reflect the EN where it is available, and added the Helium.

SleepingBags4.jpg (67.55 KiB) Viewed 13596 times

System won't let me upload the spreadsheet file... If anyone would like it, please PM me.

[Son of a Beach]

System won't let me upload the spreadsheet file... If anyone would like it, please PM me.

The software only allows upload of files it regards as 'safe' format. Excel is not regarded as safe, probably due to the possibility of macros.

I'm away at a conference this week, and don't have much time for the forums, but if somebody thinks it's worthwhile, it might be good to convert it to a table in the Wiki? If it's going to be anywhere long term, it might be worth adding a 'date' column so people can see how recent the data is for each row.

[photohiker]

Ok, I have applied for wiki group membership and received it very quickly!

All the sleeping bag data from the charts I posted in this topic is now in the wiki here

I've got most of the data for the standard length bags, if I get a moment I will add that as well.

[Son of a Beach]

Thanks for taking the trouble to add all that to the wiki. It's a well written article, brings all the relevant information into one page, and has the potential to be very useful to people looking for a new bag.

I expect it will get linked to a lot from various forum topics where people are asking for information on sleeping bags in the future.

[climberman]

Ta p-h !

[luke_vic]

Great work photohiker! In light of Rogers comments in the following link about loft rating standards:
viewtopic.php?f=15&t=2275

Is it worth putting a disclaimer on the loft values in the table? Just a thought, otherwise great job!

[photohiker]

Thanks.

Yes. I still need to add some info about
* the down
* the shape options
* the shell materials

Anything else while I'm at it?

[photohiker]

Updated the wiki page with more detail and sections discussed added. Also added Brett's bags in there, which I had overlooked.

[Ent]

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[photohiker]

So, the big question is, should I extend the chart to include shoulder and foot dimensions?

I'm a lot leaner than you Brett, by the sounds of it. After 30 years of abuse, I've regained my school leaver weight. A good daily walk in our local (hilly) area is enough to keep it that way.

[Ent]

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[photohiker]

Not frightened of the work, but worried it could be prone to error.

Bag lengths are routinely vague. I think the only real way to assess that is to get into it.

Widths are expressed as girth by WM and possibly others, but plain width by OP. I guess I could divide the WM measurements by 2 to (hopefully) get things on the same footing.

[Ent]

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[photohiker]

For instance:

WM Versalite Long "Inside Girth" shdr/foot (cm) 160/99
OP Cocoon 500 Large "width" shdr/foot (cm) 89 x 30

(from their websites)

[Ent]

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[photohiker]

Bush-lite maximum width measured 90cm stated Um? lost the catelogue.

Bush Lite on the OP website. 89cm Shoulder width.

All close enough to manufacturer's claims. On the basis of these and Nut's fabric comments, I'll update the wiki to include Length, Shoulder width, Foot width measurements and Fabric. I will also remove the Price column as it's not easy to find any reliable and relevant info to put in there other than RRP which is hopefully a fiction people will not have to pay

Also, given that overseas suppliers are acting to shutdown their local retailers from exporting to Australia, I think it would be a good idea if we do not publish working sources who will ship on the forum or wiki - it just paints a target on them for the supplier to shoot with their loaded gun. Use PM or email instead.

[Ent]

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Last edited by Ent on Thu 11 Nov, 2010 3:18 pm, edited 1 time in total.

[photohiker]

Ok, it's done Check it out

Rang Mont. They actually do not test to EN1537, but might in the future. Corrected the wiki. Also have no measurements for thei bag foot dimensions but they are 'larger than some'.