Sleeping Bags

[Ent]

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Last edited by Ent on Thu 11 Nov, 2010 3:19 pm, edited 1 time in total.

[blacksheep]

Ok, it's done Check it out

Rang Mont. They actually do not test to EN1537, but might in the future. Corrected the wiki. Also have no measurements for thei bag foot dimensions but they are 'larger than some'.

the test is 13537..... This is an expensive standards test

(post edited by admin to avoid cross-brand contention)

Last edited by blacksheep on Mon 15 Jun, 2009 2:35 pm, edited 1 time in total.

[photohiker]

Thanks blacksheep, I have corrected the typo.

Interesting point regarding Aussie companies and EN 13537. When I rang Mont, they corrected me, I have no idea where I got the idea that the bags were tested.

Regarding OnePlanet their 29th sleeping bag brochure says: "All One Planet sleeping bags are temperature rated in accordance with EN 13537" Have we uncovered a little bit of weasel words here, or are the bags being submitted and tested against the standard?

One thing that is not quite right with EN 13537 is that there does not seem to be an independant body publishing the ratings per bag/manufacturer. Our only information comes from the manufacturer themselves, so how would we know?

[blacksheep]

you could always ask to see the test, or ask who conducted it? I'll show you mine

[photohiker]

Interesting. I think I will ring them and ask.

This is what the European Outdoor Group say in their downloadable PDF

CE Mark:

A sleeping bag which fully complies with all aspects of EN 13537 is entitled to
display the CE symbol on the product and hangtag. To qualify for the CE symbol the product
must have a specific temperature test on an approved thermal manikin and the fabrics and fillings
have to pass specified EN textile tests. The standard is not mandatory, so the manufacture can
decide not to have the CE mark on the product.

Temperature Tested to EN 13537:

If the label says – “temperature tested to EN 13537”, this means that the manufacturer has had
the thermal manikin tests done on this sleeping bag to EN 13537 but may not have completed all
of the fabric tests according to the European test system. They may, however, have tested the
fabrics and insulation to other standards – e.g. ISO or ASTM.

Temperature rating in accordance with EN 13537:

If the label says – “temperature rating in accordance with EN 13537”, or similar, this means
that the manufacturer has calculated the temperature values for this sleeping bag. Many manufacturers
have tested a small number of sleeping bags and calculated the results for other
products in their collections.

Hmm. Hmm. and Hmm.

[photohiker]

Well, they are adamant on the phone that the bags are tested. Reckon they get a lot of queries about it too, but none quite like mine

I must be getting pedantic in my old age.

Blacksheep, which Macpac bag/s should be in the sleeping bag table?

[blacksheep]

Well, they are adamant on the phone that the bags are tested. Reckon they get a lot of queries about it too, but none quite like mine

I must be getting pedantic in my old age.

Blacksheep, which Macpac bag/s should be in the sleeping bag table?

(minor post edit by admin to avoid cross-brand contention)

include whichever bags you like...the santuary series are our mummy 800 loft bags, latitude are tapered 700 loft and Escapade are our 600 loft range. In Aussie the best selling are the Latitude bags...

[corvus]

Whilst we are on the subject of Sleeping Bags you may wish to check out this site http://www.tundrasleepingbags.com/default.asp I bought my Pure and Dry -5 when our dollar was "rampant" and my only minor complaint is that the zip snags sometimes.
c

[Ent]

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Last edited by Ent on Thu 11 Nov, 2010 3:19 pm, edited 1 time in total.

[photohiker]

Pure and Dry -5

Corvus, if you post the specs of the bag I'll add it to the wiki. There's no measurements for sizing or total weight on the Tundra site that I can see...

[corvus]

Pure and Dry -5

Corvus, if you post the specs of the bag I'll add it to the wiki. There's no measurements for sizing or total weight on the Tundra site that I can see...

Sorry the manufacturers have changed models mine is rated as follows
Goose Down 860 cuin 95/5
Down Weight 400g
Total Weight ca.880g does not include stuff sack 45g
Length of mine inside top of hood to foot 225cm
Width at shoulders 80cm
Width at foot 40cm.
c

[corvus]

Hi Corvus

Two questions.

1. Is the pricing in Punds, Euros, USA or gold coins.
2. Is there a link to bag sizes.

Oh a lied the third question.

How are you finding the bag.

Cheers

Come down in price since I bought mine 229.00 pounds sterling (now around 180.00 if you can find one

Having used it in all seasons now this is my bag of choice out of all of my (6 bags )
c

Last edited by corvus on Mon 15 Jun, 2009 6:52 pm, edited 1 time in total.

[photohiker]

Length of mine inside top of hood to foot 225cm

So, call that a 'long' ?

[corvus]

I purchased mine from /www.upandunder.co.uk/ and they still list the same bag so perhaps its only the Polish site that is doing new models and I remember now that the 229.00 sterling was less VAT so I paid less than that
c

[corvus]

Length of mine inside top of hood to foot 225cm

So, call that a 'long' ?

I guess so??
c

[Taurë-rana]

(though I have occasionally seen people who would be cold in a -18 bag in postitive temperatures....)

That sounds like me, and it doesn't help that I'm only 5' and 52kg and there is a lot of space around me in a sleeping bag! Having said that, I don't think I could cope with a mummy bag though. It was a nice surprise to see the new activity in this thread as I haven't quite got round to buying a new bag yet - I tend to take a while to get round to important decisions. I will go and check the new Wiki out, thanks photohiker.

[north-north-west]

Have you had a look at the Mont Nemo? It's designed for small women, and it's nice and warm. Works for me, anyway, and I'm one of those people with a very low BMR.

[Taurë-rana]

No I haven't, I'll have a look thanks.

[photohiker]

Added: Macpac bags Latitude 500 and 700, Sanctuary 600, Mont Nemo, Tundra Pure&Dry -5.

Fixed some typos, re-ordered the list to Alphabetical to make additions easier.

If blacksheep could get out his ruler and measure the feet of his company's bags I'll add that too

[corvus]

blacksheep and Macpac,
Sorry blacksheep you have tried to keep us on track however your web site is out of date and contains major errors as has been pointed out on this forum .
If this free forum can keep up to date why cant your IT folk get you web site relevant and forger the self promotion just give us up to date information after all it has been at least 3 months since I pointed this out to you.
corvus

[wardy]

I took a Mont Brindabella to the western aurthers and other trips and it was amazing. Mont also do a good down jacket with a semi water resistant outer schell

[blacksheep]

blacksheep and Macpac,
Sorry blacksheep you have tried to keep us on track however your web site is out of date and contains major errors as has been pointed out on this forum .
If this free forum can keep up to date why cant your IT folk get you web site relevant and forger the self promotion just give us up to date information after all it has been at least 3 months since I pointed this out to you.
corvus

so the bag typo (mm i/o cm) has been fixed, old styles purged, new styles added, for every market we sell in...I'm sure there are still gliches as we move from a info site to our new site, but they are being dealt with as we find them..our IT guys have a much bigger project on their plate that is making them a bit time poor

[photohiker]

Regarding One Planet and standards.

I'm happy to report I am entirely satisfied with the communications I have had with One Planet (even had an email from their sleeping bag designer!)

Bottom line: They test about half their range to EN 13537 at an independant lab overseas. They extrapolate the results for the remaining bags. Rather than confuse the issue by varying the wording of the EN temperature ratings, they use the same wording for every bag. This is in accordance with the publicly available information on EN 13537.

Regarding Down, they test every batch of down in the US to the US steam assisted CUIN/OZ test, and they also include it and the EU 12130 (cm3/g) on each bag's tag.

[Ent]

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Last edited by Ent on Thu 11 Nov, 2010 3:20 pm, edited 1 time in total.

[One Planet]

We take the utmost care to accurately represent all our products and go to great lengths not to compromise our standards or incidentally break the law.
We claim “temperature rated in accordance with EN 13537”. We do so as we have not tested every bag in our range. Our range consists of over 60 catalogue models, approximately 12 industrial models and endless variations in custom filled models. In accordance with the standard we have chosen and tested a cross section of our range enabling us to calculate logical parallels to fill the gaps. We test new models to increase our knowledge bank. The tests are performed by the Kansas State University to standard EN 13537 and yes, at great cost. It is not thousands of dollars it is 10’s of thousands.
To make the claim “Temperature Tested to EN 13537” would imply we have tested every sleeping bag in our range. This, I believe, would be false and misleading and would likely contravene sections 52, 53a and 55 of the Trade Practices Act potentially resulting in penalties to me and the company far greater than any possible gain or benefit from so doing.
On top of this we independently test each shipment of down. Core samples are taken from the loosely filled bails which are then secured with tamper proof cables. The core samples are sent to the IDFL in Salt Lake City in the United States where they are tested. The results are supplied to us prior to payment and shipping.

The down is tested for Content (AS2479), Species, Cleanliness (Oxygen, turbidity and pH) and Fill power or loft to the following:
US.cuin/oz.
IDFL Cylinder (cuin/oz) which replaces the old USA cylinder. The old Australian standard AS 2479-1987 for fill power was loosely based on this test, however not steam conditioned. Recently (as in the last few years) the IDFL has introduced a new conditioning method, steam, and in theory this should reinstate the original condition of the down, even if it has been compressed for long periods of time.
(Rogers Caffin’s comments are valid, however I do believe steam is a better conditioning method than old. It’s just a matter of getting use to it. I have some very interesting results from the old method, but that’s for another day.)

EU.cm3/g
As we now compete with mostly US and European brands we also represent our fill power or loft to the EU Standard 12130 (cm3/g)

We now represent the actual fill power and quality of the down used in the sleeping bag on a tag located at the foot of the bag. As all our bags are made to order the date of manufacture is also attached. Worth looking at!
FYI our current fill power is US/660, 770, 840 and I have a small quality of 850 coming for custom range.

In Fact I would be happy to fly the Moderator or representative to our Melbourne factory to show first hand our quality systems and documentary evidence to back all claims made by One Planet.
By the way, we have now updated our Webb site in an endeavour to avoid this occurring again.

(minor edits to this post by admin to avoid cross-brand contention)

[One Planet]

I am new to this, and i forgot to sign my previous comments.
Regards
Andrew King.
One Planet

[blacksheep]

I am new to this, and i forgot to sign my previous comments.
Regards
Andrew King.
One Planet

hi Andrew, It's Campbell.

The comment (which was removed by admin) was that I doubt that any company that sold only in Australia would test their range to EN13537 as the cost to do so(as you know) is horrendous. I added it is most likely that it is more likely that and Australasian company would extrapolate results from similar products. You clarified that while you don't test your whole range, you do base your extrapolations from selected bags within your range, and the phrasing that is explaining this is accurate. Now all is clearer, and all are clearer on this (And thank you for participating in workingh on a standard of communicating ratings that is based in fact, especially as you don't require to for the AU/NZ market- good on you and kudos to you- much better than the old 2/3/4 season method)

Glad to see you in here, you'll learn a lot from these places and tell you when you have crossed the line (i get it a bit )
cheers
Cam

[photohiker]

It's great to have you on board Andrew.

As an aside, when I talked with One Planet and corresponded via email, I did it on the basis of a private individual and made no mention of bushwalk-tasmania. Andrew found this place on his own, or maybe someone sent him a link...

So, blacksheep. Have you found your ruler yet?

[Son of a Beach]

or maybe someone sent him a link...

Somebody else let me know they'd sent him a link, so I then followed up inviting him to comment as well.

In any case, welcome and thanks for your input, Andrew. It's terrific to have industry and brand representatives posting information here in a public forum to directly address questions and issues about their products and services.

[Ent]

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Last edited by Ent on Thu 11 Nov, 2010 3:20 pm, edited 1 time in total.