Poo tubes

[Moondog55]

I haven't seen a discussion on this so it seems pertinent to open one.
I think the points to discuss are size, solo/pairs/groups.
Making of the unit [ Very simple really but some people may have nil experience with using PVC plumbing fixtures]
Hygiene
Adjuncts; such as Bio-Bugs/Actizyme/ kittylitter and which type works best/disposal etc.
Use of


Reading US sites is interesting as there appears to be debate on the best way to use these.
Most interesting was the site which said that using large paper coffee filters to "Do your business" and putting the whole thing into the tube.
I disagree with the people and groups who use plastic bags to do this as the bags cause problems with the sewage system.
Does anybody have have favourite recipes for additions which make these less smelly and messy to play with and at the same time more environmentally friendly ?
I have accumulated much /many offcuts of 90mm and 100mm PVC plumbing pipe as we are doing our storm water at the moment and also a section of 150mm to make one for use in base camps [just in case it's needed]

[north-north-west]

The search function brings up a number of threads in which the topic is discussed, including this one:
viewtopic.php?f=3&t=6069

[Moondog55]

OK Where do we get biodegradable cornstarch bags in Melbourne/or Australia generally?
None of the searching I have done seems to address the issue of the adjuncts very well, and it seems to make sense to me to do everything I can to reduce my personal impact by precomposting the human waste.
Biobugs is a very expensive product but Actizyme is available at almost all supermarkets as are dozens of different types of cat hygiene products and surely some further discussion on this matter is warranted?

[Maelgwn]

There are lots of discussion about poo tubes around the web - backcountry forum on ski.com.au and supertopo.

The only time I needed one I avoided the bags so I could dispose of the waist down a normal toilet.

Maybe try some rv/motorhome toilet/porta potty deodoriser to reduce the smell? There are DIY recipes on line - not sure if they are effective.

[tastrax]

For your winter trips Moondog you might want to consider something like the rafting companies in the US use. At least you will be able to bring them out on the sled.

http://www.hotcampshowers.com/inc/sdetail/697
http://www.nrs.com/product/2729/eco-safe-toilet-system

Originally designed to go on army surplus ammo cans

http://www.eco-safe.net/instructions.html

[whynotwalk]

OK Where do we get biodegradable cornstarch bags in Melbourne/or Australia generally?

Last I heard, DoC in NZ were using cornstarch bags from Eden Enterprises http://www.edengreennz.com. It's not the most user-friendly website but they could help,

cheers

Peter

[whynotwalk]

I agree Moondog, there's not much apparent from Australian suppliers. No wonder we're the wide brown land

But another NZ possibility is here http://alpineclub.org.nz/shop/96?category=96

cheers

Peter

[davidf]

Not the most enviro frieindly option but this works: cheap dry bag, you aren't going to was this again. Plastic shopping bags like you get at coles the handles make $#!+ing into them even with bowel disfunction ok. I picked up on this site the idea of using those kleenex tissue packets, tried, tested, awesome, less bog roll. Bit a kitty litter and tea tree or eucalypst oil in the bogged shopping bag helps. Lighter and more functional and therefore more likely to be used. Up to you to do the enviro economy calcs.

[Giddy_up]

This stuff was developed by NASA and it is supposed to turn your waste solid and odourless. Not sure if it works or if you can get it here in Australia.

http://www.cleanwaste.com/demo/poo-powder

[Moondog55]

I thought that this particular product was having trouble with biodegradability but I can't find the link .
Personally I would rather not use a product that added to our landfill problems.

[Strider]

Not the most enviro frieindly option but this works: cheap dry bag, you aren't going to was this again. Plastic shopping bags like you get at coles the handles make $#!+ing into them even with bowel disfunction ok. I picked up on this site the idea of using those kleenex tissue packets, tried, tested, awesome, less bog roll. Bit a kitty litter and tea tree or eucalypst oil in the bogged shopping bag helps. Lighter and more functional and therefore more likely to be used. Up to you to do the enviro economy calcs.

Are the newer biodegradable shopping bags suitable for this purpose, I wonder?

[Moondog55]

Well you can't dump those in any hole or facility that needs pumping out as they block the pump. My understanding is they need UV light to degrade.
So they can't be dumped in the pit at Pretty Valley which gets pumped out twice a year.
I would imagine all P&W toilets have the same limitation

[Strider]

Good point MD

[Moondog55]

Anybody want to share the cost on some large paper coffee filters?
Ebay $60- a thousand, even using 2 at a time I can't see me ever needing 1000 of these

http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/281089982887 ... 1423.l2649

[Onestepmore]

Anybody want to share the cost on some large paper coffee filters?
Ebay $60- a thousand, even using 2 at a time I can't see me ever needing 1000 of these

http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/281089982887 ... 1423.l2649

Lol Moondog, I can easily arrange to inoculate you with some nice friendly giardia bugs.....

[Moondog55]

Anybody want to share the cost on some large paper coffee filters?
Ebay $60- a thousand, even using 2 at a time I can't see me ever needing 1000 of these

http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/281089982887 ... 1423.l2649

Lol Moondog, I can easily arrange to inoculate you with some nice friendly giardia bugs.....

You are so kind; I'm happy to reciprocate with something else I caught in Nuigini, when all I had was giardia I thought I was well.

[whynotwalk]

The other day I was chatting with binder (a ranger, Mt Field/SWNP - and a forum user), and he said he's about to take delivery of some cornstarch bags. I think they're for use in the poo tube trial for Lake Rhona. They're from this mob http://www.shopbasics.com.au/prod69pbg1.html

Others who were after such items might like to follow up direct, or maybe binder could let us know how it goes,

cheers

Peter

[Moondog55]

Bookmarked; although I see the smallest bag is big for the purpose

[Binder]

Bookmarked; although I see the smallest bag is big for the purpose

Well spotted moondog. Very difficult to find smaller ones that will do the job. We will give them a try to see how they fit in the tubes and and if there are any other problems. We will also throw some in the Sputniks to see how they break down. Will keep you posted.

Cheers

[Moondog55]

Thanx Binder, I'll probably buy one pack just to trial anyway [ depending on postage costs ] but the coffee filter trick may be more economical; lining the carrier tho would make the cleaning business much less distasteful which I think is why poo-tubes aren't used as much as they should be

[Nuts]

Just thought i'd add this to the topic, the tubes are easy to make with a few tools and consumables, here's an alternative on ebay (other sizes available):

http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/90mm-PVC-Sho ... 27f1671939

[Nuts]

And this is a list of accepted dump points (i'd expect they are 'contents only') maybe handy for interstate visitors/ car touring.

http://www.sanidumps.com/sanidumps_au.php?id=120

(Edit: - Tassie dump points, that is).

[Lizzy]

What about a dog poo bag such as
http://www.biome.com.au/biodegradable-p ... 64517.html

[David M]

In the US they have the WAG Bag. Also see http://www.trailspace.com/articles/back ... posal.html

[Orion]

Waste carry-out is a requirement on walls in Yosemite and a few backcountry areas in California. So I have some experience with this. On walls the container is often trailed beneath the haulbag and so must have a certain durability. That said, the original 4 inch PVC tubes were unnecessarily heavy. Lighter weight plastic containers replaced these over time. On a couple of walls we successfully dragged a duct-taped dry bag up the rock.

Unfortunately dry bags leak air and so they literally stink as containers. The Wag Bags and Restop bags and similar products available are convenient but in my experience do not form a stink-proof seal either.

For bushwalking a PVC tube would be overkill. I think a better solution is a large, lightweight plastic screw top jar and some sort of kitty litter type material to toss in with the poo.

Another option for avoiding the need for carrying a tube is a pre-trip 1 liter enema.

[whynotwalk]

In NZ, DOC sells Poo Pots. These are, as Orion describes,

lightweight plastic screw top jars

They also come with biodegradable cornstarch bags and hand sani-gel. More details here http://www.doc.govt.nz/parks-and-recreation/places-to-go/canterbury/places/aoraki-mount-cook-national-park/know-before-you-go/pack-it-out-poo-pots/

cheers

Peter

[Moondog55]

For bushwalking a PVC tube would be overkill. I think a better solution is a large, lightweight plastic screw top jar and some sort of kitty litter type material to toss in with the poo.

Another option for avoiding the need for carrying a tube is a pre-trip 1 liter enema.

Well I think that depends on the length of the trip
An enema wouldn't be much use on a 5 week traverse of the AWT
And even the bulk mayonnaise containers [ PET with screw tops] only hold 1.25 litres and are fragile compared to the PVC

[Tortoise]

For bushwalking a PVC tube would be overkill. I think a better solution is a large, lightweight plastic screw top jar and some sort of kitty litter type material to toss in with the poo.

Another option for avoiding the need for carrying a tube is a pre-trip 1 liter enema.

Well I think that depends on the length of the trip
An enema wouldn't be much use on a 5 week traverse of the AWT
And even the bulk mayonnaise containers [ PET with screw tops] only hold 1.25 litres and are fragile compared to the PVC

True, MD, but a lot of people do shorter trips a lot of the time.

Can't say I've gone as far as the enema approach, but if I'm camping a couple of nights in a sensitive area, I routinely use an antidiarrhoeal to decrease motility, and thus usually avoid the problem altogether. Not that this would be necessarily wise for everyone, but it often simplifies things for me.

[Nuts]

The cornstarch bags can't go in pump out, flush or septic toilets?

Last edited by Nuts on Thu 30 Jul, 2015 6:50 pm, edited 1 time in total.

[Nuts]

^^ (double posted)

I could add that the pvc tubes are probably more a thought for group travel. The alternatives aren't really necessary with regular toilets available (excepting perhaps in some certain locations) I have taken the doggie bags on an overnight camp, explaining the use, like even as does a trowel, had a constrictive effect.. which was nice.. as i'd not got to considering where to dispose of them if someone needed one.

A list of suggested camp areas/routes that do have or are expected to have increased use/- toilet would help, even if parks aren't in a position to do more/yet.