Vango Force 10 tents: Helium 200

[johnrs]

Dear Forum Folks
Do any walkers here possess one of these tents?
Comments about usability, durability and size would be welcome.
I am 183 cms and the intended use is extended Tasmanian alpine walking.
Also interested in anythoughts about the new Nitro line or the older Vango Spirit 200s.
Thanks
John

[Bubbalouie]

My other half uses a helium 200, honestly they're a superb little tent for the money. Not too heavy, easy to set up. They hold up to wind pretty well too. You will need new pegs though, the pegs they come with are pretty useless.

[Mickl]

Hi

I have a Vango Force 10 Helium 200. Full disclosure; I haven't done much in it yet as I only recently got it but a few things that may help from my initial observations.

From what I can see its a well made tent. All the components seem to be of high quality (pegs have been changed to MSR groundhogs though) and no dodgey finishes I can see. The tent is tape sealed so no need to seam seal it which is a bonus. The only part that isn't taped is the zip seam (as it would melt) but that is covered by a decent storm flap so will be fine without seam sealing although it could be done just in case.

The floor seems fairly good quality although I will use a ground sheet (I would with any tent though so not reflective of this tent) and the bath tub sides come up a reasonable way so it feels like it would do well with water under/around the tent. The fly also comes down right to the ground so wouldn't think you would get any splash up either. It packs down to a good size and is nice and light as well. It doesn't have a lot of mesh so not sure how it will go in warmer weather or with condensation but the top of the doors are mesh and there are vents under the two small end poles so would image it will be ok. Only time will tell I guess. I believe the current model has two doors now where as mine only has one so would be better if you want to use it 2 up.

I bought this tent as a 1 person tent not a 2 person. I think at your size you would struggle with more than one person unless you are ok with being fairly squished or the 2nd person is quite small. For one there is ample room and you can easily put your pack etc inside as well which does sort one issue the reviewers seem to have being a small porch/vestibule. If I had to use it in the rain and cook etc I would just unclip the inner on one door side and push it back to create some space under the fly sheet. All in all I think I'd be happy and confident taking this tent most places I plan on going. I am going to add some guys on the centre pole each side though just in case! If you have any specific questions etc let me know and I can try and answer them for you. I could take any pics your are specifically after as well if you want.

Mick

There are some good reviews on the net on this tent

http://www.hikersblog.co.uk/force-ten-h ... ar-review/


these are on the 100 version but similar obviously just smaller.

http://terrybnd.blogspot.com.au/2012/02 ... -2012.html

http://terrybnd.blogspot.com.au/2012/06 ... ition.html


Have you considered a Tarptent Scarp 1 or 2? That's what I'll be grabbing next I think. Could be worth considering as an option and certainly plenty of recommendations for them on here and every other forum around

[johnrs]

Mick
Thanks for your detailed commentary!
The Helium sounds good and is probably a bit more durable
and suited to prolonged cold wet windy than the Tarptents.
One remaining question is the headroom at the ends when sleeping/lying down.
Is there reasonable clearance over the face??
Thanks again
John

[Mickl]

From memory it was fine as the little struts in the ends pull up both foot and head ends, not as well as what the scarp design looks to but a lot better than other tents I have seen. I'm only 173cm's tall though so probably easier for me to avoid the ends of the tent

If you wanted when I have time I could set the tent up on the back lawn and put my mat inside and take some measurements for you..... I will have to at some point anyway as I need to cut out the tyvek footprint for it....

[Franco]

here is a link to a blog of a guy that compared the specs several tents of this type, including the Helium 200 and Scarp1, and then explains how he came to choose the one he did.
He has a few trip reports there too showing his tent in use along side some of the others.
( I just had a quick look at the photos so not sure about the comments there)

http://bearpacking.wordpress.com/2012/09/17/1-man-1-pole/

franco@tarptent

[Strider]

The Helium sounds good and is probably a bit more durable and suited to prolonged cold wet windy than the Tarptents.

Strange comment given the lack of structure and guy points on the Helium. What are you basing this on?

[Mickl]

here is a link to a blog of a guy that compared the specs several tents of this type, including the Helium 200 and Scarp1, and then explains how he came to choose the one he did.
He has a few trip reports there too showing his tent in use along side some of the others.
( I just had a quick look at the photos so not sure about the comments there)

http://bearpacking.wordpress.com/2012/09/17/1-man-1-pole/

franco@tarptent

If I was buying a tent now I would most likely share most of his thought processes regarding his decision. I like the Vango and as I will only be using it solo and I am quite small I think its big enough for me and I will just store my pack inside. I also picked it up used very lightly so paid a lot less than new price for it which made my decision to buy it easy.

If I had to buy new now though I would lean towards the scarp simply because I think its more adaptable. Given you can buy both inners and the extra poles it really looks to be a good value, able to use almost any where tent. I'd certainly be happy taking one out in most weather given the reviews and photo's I've seen of them.

In regards to materials Franco what's the thickness of the floor / fly of a scarp compared to the material say the Vango would be made of. Also I never see anywhere the Waterhead rating in relation to the Scarps. I know its more of a marketing thing to make it easier for people to understand but if they did have a rating as other tents do, do you know what it would be?

Mick

[Franco]

The fly and floor are made with the same type of silnylon, 30D about 1.5oz per square yard.
Up to 3 years ago we used a lighter version less water proof version, (rated by others at 1200mm)
One of the other manufacturers that use our same silnylon gives it a rating , another one has an High Tech sounding name for it , we don't .

BTW, neither Denier nor Water Head ratings (even if accurate) tell you about real world performance.
A higher Denier, say even 70, is not necessarily stronger than 30, it would be if made out of the exactly same material.
Denier is the weight (linear mass) of the fabric, so it can be like comparing a steel , aluminium,titanium bikes going by weight...
30D means that 9000 meters of the filament weighs 30 g.

BTW, that link to the blog I posted above was one of the top entries in Google searching for " Helium 200 Scarp 1 "
One of the first that came up was a review by BackpackingLight on the Helium (you need a subscription for that) I had a quick look at the one I posted and then went to watch TV...
Note that

[icefest]

Denier is the weight (linear mass) of the fabric, so it can be like comparing a steel , aluminium,titanium bikes going by weight...
30D means that 9000 meters of the filament weighs 30 g.

Nitpicking here, and I'm pretty sure this is what you mean. (i.e. this is a clarification for others)

For others: 
Denier is the weight in grams of 9000m of the thread used to make the cloth. 
Silk, the lightest thread generally used is ~1 Denier.

[johnrs]

Thanks Mick
If you have the tent up
your thoughts on clearance at the ends would be very much appreciated.
John

Strider
Force Ten is from Scotland
The spiritual home of wet cold and windy.
Reports indicate their tents stand up and do not leak.
This tent is much lighter in construction than the tents of yore
But the materials are rated substantially higher than those of the Tarptents.
I would not take a Vango on the Appalachian trail in summer
nor a Tarptent to Snowdonia in winter.
Kind regards
John

[Strider]

the materials are rated substantially higher than those of the Tarptents.

Tarptent = 30D
Helium = 20D

I'll have my Scarp over this Akto clone any day.

[johnrs]

Thanks Strider

Have you had your Scarp out in prolonged high wet and wild?
How did it go? How long was the trip?
How old is the tent and how is wearing?

I have seen comments regarding misting with the Tarptents but gather that the nylon inner
will deal with this.
Perhaps now the material has been upgraded the comments are no longer applicable?

Looking at the specs in more detail
The 20D Force Ten fly is rated to a head of 3000mm on a European standard
and has dual PU and Silicon coating.
The floor is 70 D PU with a 5000mm rating.
The Tarptents have no stated rating but I gather it is about 1200mm
but this may have changed with the new material.
The same 30 D material is used for the floors.
I wonder if Franco has more detail here?

In terms of construction and "feel" the F10 products have the appearance of more durability
but have had problems in the past.

The quote below comes from the Tarptent site.

"QIs silicone-impregnated ripstop nylon waterproof?
ASilicone impregnated ripstop nylon is waterproof within "normal operating conditions." In very heavy rain and high velocity wind-driven rain some extremely light interior misting is normal and equivalent to increased interior humidity"

Strider, I would appreciate your responses to these more detailed enquiries.
Thanks
John

[Mickl]

Thanks Mick
If you have the tent up
your thoughts on clearance at the ends would be very much appreciated.
John

I will do that for you when I have a spare few minutes no worries. I will try and get it done this week some time for you...

Mick

[Strider]

Yes I have used it a torrential downpour and massive wind gusts a couple of times and it coped very well. I've never noticed any misting and don't doubt it happens but suspect this would be more noticeable with a single skin shelter. My particular tent has been used around 15 nights in total. The Scarp is plenty robust enough IMO and offers great liveability with its two doors and rectangular floor.

[Gavan]

Hi All,

This is my first post but I do have experience with this tent. I've hiked Feathertop (80km winds) and Frenchmans Cap (still & humid) and the tent performed well on both occasions. The only problem I encountered was condensation issues in Tassie. Probably my fault as I should have left the door open (no rain) to aid ventilation.

I'm actually looking to upgrade to a F10 Nitro Lite 200+ w'Footprint so I can fit the GF in and its also light enough to take for solo trips (need more real-estate). The weight diff between the Helium 200 and the Nitro Lite 200+ is only a few 100 gs but the extra space is enormous (so are the dollars).

Check it out.
http://www.forcetentents.com/nitro-lite ... rettyPhoto

Nice bit of kit.

Cheers,

Gav.

[johnrs]

Thanks Gavan
The specs on the Nitro 200 series are amazing!
The fabric is very light, I wonder how it will go.

Back looking at the Helium 200,
How was that for headroom?
Particularly at the ends.
How tall are you?
How were the vestibules for cooking?
Was the tent big enough for use in the snow?

Thanks again
John

[Mickl]

Hi John

I haven't forgotten about some pics etc for you Its just been crap weather lately when I've been off and I've been avoiding dragging it out in the rain for photo's etc.....I'll get it done as soon as possible and get some pics for you I promise!

[Gavan]

Hi John,

I haven't had to cook in the tent as my hiking trips have all been in areas where there are huts. It would be possible to cook in the vestibule area and since you can unclip the inner, you could do that and increase the space available to cook under the fly.

As for sitting up in the tent, this is possible but only under the main pole in the middle of the tent. It is about 95cm high on the inside. I'm approx 180cm and can sit up in it.....just. The ends of the tent are not high enough to sit up in but you can store gear there. I sleep on a Thermarest X-Lite and can fit my pack and organise all my gear inside the tent. Its usable but not spacious and definitely not a 2 person (plus all your gear) tent but enough space for one person and gear.

I haven't used the tent in the snow so can't comment on that. But, I would imagine that if you were restricted to the tent due to snow or rain it wouldn't take to long to develop cabin fever. A mate of mine (who also has the Helium 200) describes it as a swag.

I bought the Nitro Light 200+ and it will arrive in a few days time. I might put up a review about it when it arrives. Yes it is light but I hope it is also 'bombproof' as some reviewers have described.

Cheers,

Gav.

[johnrs]

Thanks again Gavan
How is the room over your face
at the tent ends when lying down??

I am really looking forward to your Nitrolite review.
The predecessor tent, the Spirit, was a beautiful piece of work.
John

[Gavan]

Hi John,

The space above your head in the tent is ok in calm conditions. I didn't feel claustrophobic in the tent and there is about 20cm or so of clear space above your head before the inner. When I was up at Feathertop and it got really windy, I did have the tent inner flapping in my face for some of the night. BUT... its because I set my tent up facing head first into the wind that caused the tent to flap so much. If I had of taken the time to position my tent properly maybe I would have got a better night sleep and I also wouldn't have been sleeping head first down the mountain. A newbie mistake that I won't make again.

I would not be upgrading/upsizing my tent if it was not for the fact that my girlfriend was getting into hiking and coming along on a trek soon. The Helium 200 goes really good.

The Nitro Lite 200+ has just arrived in Melbourne and should be delivered to me in the next day or two. I will take some pics and post a review.

Cheers,

Gav.

[Mickl]

Ok, Johnrs finally got around to putting the tent up and taking a couple of pics. Apologies for the delay but I have been crook lately and the weather has also been rubbish. Also excuse the weeds etc as gardening has not been at the top of my to do list lately!

First a couple of things I thought worth pointing out. I was on my own so could not get any decent pics of someone lying in the tent etc but have taken several measurements with a tape while in and out the tent so hopefully that will be helpful. Also I was trying to mark up some tyvek for a ground sheet and add some side guy lines at the same time so was probably a bit more focused on that then getting a perfect pitch. I did slightly tighten a few of the elastics that attach the inner to the outer after the pics were taken and that did tighten the slack in the inner a bit but I didn’t think it was enough to warrant new pics/measurements although it may have added a cm here or there.

The mat I chucked in was a normal size thermarest 185cm long x 52 wide x 3cm thick. I would normally use an Exped mat but this saved me blowing it up as it was already laid out ready to go. All the measurements are taken with the mat about 15cm from the entry side parallel to the entry. All measurements are approx but should be fairly close.

- From the end of the mat to the inner bath tub wall is approx 15cm at the head and foot end.
- From the centre of the mat to the inner opposite the door is approx 50cm.
- From the head and foot end of the mat to the non entry side of the bath tub wall is approx 20cm.
- Laying on my back on the mat and measuring from my body to the inner above was approx 30 cms above my head, 50cms above my stomach and approx 30cms above my feet. This height could be adjusted by sliding the mat towards one end more which would give more height one end.
- Measuring the vestibule space from inner wall to outer wall in the centre is approx 45cms and from the ground to the outer fly at the inner wall is approx 75cms. The vestibule runs most of the length of the entry side so is quite long and just tapers from the 45cms centre to either end where its just off the inner.

If you have any other questions or anything else I can help with let me know. I think while its up I might test it out tonight with my new EE quilt as its should be about 6 degrees tonight so a good test run.

Mick

[Mickl]

couple more pics....

[Mickl]

One more pic. This was taken this morning when I woke up. This was lying on top of an Exped Downmat 9 LW inside my EE 20F Quilt. This gives you a pretty good idea of the room inside the tent during actual use. The end of my quilt was well off the tent walls and using a normal pillow my head was still well off the inner at the head end. Only thing I noticed was that the bottom of my Exped mat was very noisy on the floor of the tent which I have not experienced before so will have to try and sort that out.
For info as well it chucked it down this morning and still is and the inside of the tent was dry with no water coming through. The outer did loose a bit of its taughtness with the water on it but was still well clear of the inner so shouldn't be an issue. I've left it out in the rain for the day so will check again later and see if anything changes but I doubt it.

[Strider]

Nice work Mickl. How did the new quilt go?

[Mickl]

Mate it was amazing. I was a little nervous when I received it as it was so light I just couldn't believe it would keep me as warm as my sleeping bad at double the weight hence the test in the back yard . Last night got down to about 6-7 degrees overnight so wasn't freezing but certainly cool. I initially went to bed with thin cotton socks, long poly thermal pants and a t shirt on. After about 30 mins I took my socks off as I was too hot and eventually I had to hang a leg out on and off and pull the quilt down off my neck below my shoulders on and off as well to regulate temperature. I didn't have the pad straps attached either but just had the quilt draped over the top of me. I have no doubt that if I strapped it to the mat and wore socks, long thermal top and bottom and beanie perhaps I could quite happily get the rated temp out of it. It was so much better than a bag and I was really comfortable and moved freely. Definitely one of my best buys of late!

[johnrs]

Thanks for the thorough review and pics Mike!
Looks quite a spacious and solid for one.
Thanks again
John

[walkon]

It's been interesting following this thread, a post specifically asking about firsthand information on a brand and model of a tent. Then an agent/representative of a rival organization throws in a link of someone comparing two tents culminating in his company's favor. Discussion then ensues with fans from either side as well as the Rep/agent as to the merits of their preferred product. Have got to say all opinions seem to have been honestly represented. Then in the end the thread author gets his information. It's been good.

Johnrs when I last camped at feathertop, a bloke had a force ten in this model which he used all the time. Mostly on his own, occasionally with his other half, he loved the tent. In a talk about how gear has progressed he described his model of tent and thought that the new model was by far superior to the previous ones in relation to condensation, room, etc. He showed me pics of the federation hut area in heavy snow with his tent nearly buried. Condensation was an issue then as both vents had enough snow around them to negate effective use. No complaints though.

As an aside
Force ten helium 200 (2)
Wildearth $349.50 delivered

Scarp 1 + extra two poles and material inner, for better weather strength plus abitily to handle snow loading
Tarptent approx $550aud (497+53 postage) all up excluding currency conversion fees

Scarp 2 +extra two poles and material....
Tarptent approx$610aud (560+50postage) excluding currency conversion fees


So if you are comparing the helium 200 with the scarp 1 as in the franco Web link is the scarp1 at least 57% better from a price comparison.
Comparing the helium200 with the scarp2, both two person tents, is the scarp2 at least 74% a better tent.

I do think that the tarptents are a better though are they that much better for your own personal needs

[Mickl]

As an addition to my last post I decided to leave the tent pitched on the back lawn for the last few days to see how it coped with some crappy weather. Over the last few days it has rained quite a lot including this morning which was massive downpour that flooded most of my back verandah and rear yard. After the rain stopped I went and got into the tent and was quite happy to find that there was not a drop of water on the inner and all the walls and inner roof were dry. I have pulled it down now and found the bottom of the floor was soaked on the underside but again was totally dry inside so overall quite happy. I'm pretty happy now that at least I know it will keep me dry if required.

As far as the Scarp vs Helium goes there are several thoughts I have on them both.

The Helium in reality is not a true 2 person tent unless you like being very squished. I bought it as a 1 person tent and would not try and put 2 in it unless an emergency. I would say it's more a fair comparison to the scarp 1 not the scarp 2 as the scarp 2 is definitely more of a true 2 person tent.

The helium has only 1 entry (my older model) and one external storage area where as the scarp has 2 entries and 2 storage areas. The helium isn't straight sides on the inner but pushes out on the side opposite the door so you can store gear (pack etc) inside standing up but some would prefer to have the external storage instead (personal preference really I think.) I think the newer model has 2 side openings but not sure if entry is possible from both sides or not....That would imrove the design again I think.

Overall I think the Scarp is a good tent in the fact that you can buy 2 inners & crossing poles so effectively you can use it in warmer weather with the mesh inner and both doors being able to be opened and also the solid inner / crossing poles for cold/crappy weather. I think if I had to choose 1 tent I would probably chose the scarp for that reason alone as its a bit more versatile.

Seeing's as I don't have to choose though I'm going to get a Scarp at some point and then have both ! Hopefully one will come up for sale in Aus at some point when I have some spare cash.

I wouldn't mind actually looking at one in person though so will have to try and find one in Adelaide that I can have a gander at!

[Mark F]

My post is predicated on the op stating that the tent is to be used in alpine Tasmanian conditions. I have a Terra Nova Laser Comp 1 which is very similar in design to the Helium 1 or 2. My views after using it in very strong winds (80+ kph with higher gusts) in a purposely highly exposed location are that the weakness in the design is the lack of control over the ends of the tent. This can be easily rectified by adding an additional guy point half way down each end seam (a change found on the latest version of the Terra Nova) or by introducing an inverted V poles to the ends (a bit more work and weight). Adding an extra centred guying point to the bottom of each panel would also assist. The increased stability at the ends of the tents is what separates the performance of the Hilleberg Acto and Scarp from the Helium and the Laser Comp in the comparison linked to by franco. The Helium design does not seem to be symmetrical so the longer section is going to be more compromised in this regard.