Sleep Systems A total systems approach topic

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Sleep Systems A total systems approach topic

Postby Moondog55 » Thu 31 Dec, 2015 11:30 am

It is an open subject and the "Standard" system at the moment does seem to exist in Australia but there are other ways of tackling the problem of sleeping well without buying separate sleeping bags for each season.

I have been working on my own system for a few decades and I still don't think it is perfect and I need to do some more work on it.
But my approach has always been to obtain the maximum versatility with the lowest possible weight and bulk consistent with what I can afford to spend.
My ideal system would be a
1 an UL synthetic overbag with a very breathable but highly water resistant shell a short side zip and a pad sleeve for my
mattresses
2 a lightweight or UL down sleeping bag with an expedition cut with 2.5 inches of insulation weighing less than a kilo

3 a down half bag with 2.5 inches of insulation weighing less than 300 grams
4 a down parka with the same 2.5 inches of insulation [ OK 2.5 inches on the torso and an inch on the arms and head ] weighing as little as possible but as close to 500 grams as possible

What I have is as above but without the mattress pocket and all much heavier than the wish-list weights
My Shell overbag weighs almost a kilo and a half; my Expedition cut sleeping bag weighs 1155 grams The Western Mountaineering Tamarack weighs 540 grams because of the long heavy duty zipper and my old Everest parka weighs over a kilo but is Very very warm

What's your own ideal sleeping system to cover tha whole range of temperatures from high summer to deep winter?
Last edited by Moondog55 on Thu 31 Dec, 2015 7:42 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Sleep Systems A total systems approach topic

Postby neilmny » Thu 31 Dec, 2015 5:12 pm

Hi MD, not quite on topic but I'm here to learn.....can you explain a couple of things to me?
What is a pad sleeve?
What is expedition cut?
What order your lot would be used to gain max thermal rating?

Grazzi, Neil.
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Re: Sleep Systems A total systems approach topic

Postby Moondog55 » Thu 31 Dec, 2015 7:58 pm

A pad sleeve is a double layer of waterproof fabric between which you slide your mat. Big Agnes uses this system in most of their bags
https://www.bigagnes.com/Products/Produ ... ilters/138
"Expedition cut" is a sleeping bag cut wider and longer than usual to allow either a standard sleeping bag or a High Altitude down suit to be worn inside it without compromising the loft of either; this can be up to 250mm wider and 150mm longer and is there for correspondingly heavier for the given thickness of insulation
http://www.phdesigns.co.uk/xero-range
Order I would use them in is as listed from 1 to 4. 1 on the outside as the shell holds the mattress system and 4 on the inner as these are the ones that are most easily doffed it too warm/added if too cold
The weights I desire are at the very limit of the possible and would be relatively fragile and very very expensive
The Synthetic outer only adds 5C/10C if it was a single 90GSM layer but is a very convenient way to keep the pad in place and the bag clean and I'll be making mine one day with a LW hoop at foot and chest to allow the inner down bags to loft fully
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Re: Sleep Systems A total systems approach topic

Postby Moondog55 » Thu 31 Dec, 2015 8:22 pm

Of course Steveson have been doing it for decades
http://warmlite.com/warmlite-triple-bag/
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Re: Sleep Systems A total systems approach topic

Postby stry » Thu 31 Dec, 2015 8:59 pm

Re the last para in your opening post MD - deep winter where ? Are you able to put a bottom temp on that ?

The components that you have listed wouldn't leave much space in the 57l pack that I prefer to use nowadays.
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Re: Sleep Systems A total systems approach topic

Postby Moondog55 » Thu 31 Dec, 2015 10:46 pm

Well deep winter is of course Antarctica or Far North Canada/Greenland/Siberia in winter
My current "System" while being heavy is probably good for -40/-50 Don't know really because I've never had the chance to use all the components together but from memory it grosses 7 kilos, 2 kilos of which are the mats?? and yes it takes up almost 15 litres compressed not counting the mats
I'd like to knock 3 kilos and 5 litres off that [ mats included]
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Re: Sleep Systems A total systems approach topic

Postby Gadgetgeek » Fri 01 Jan, 2016 1:06 am

Interesting stuff. I've gone the other way now with hammocking, so everything becomes a system to some degree. When living in Canada, I spent too many cold nights in the woods so I bought a -18C bag (north face goliath) and figured that would be good for pretty much everything, and it pretty much is. When in the rockies, because things can be unpredictable, its worth the weight penalty to know you will be okay if it snows in june. I don't know that I've every fully locked it up and tightened everything down. I also never camped when it was going to be seriously cold. My dad owns what was known as an icefield bag, I think there was one bag bigger, all I know is that it came in a duffle bag big enough to be a play house when I was very young. Not a hikers bag at all, but he had been in exposed country at -40 indicated and slept well. (wind chill is a major factor at that temp)

here I have a bunch of different bags now, and while that is less efficient, I've started to use a bag/top quilt combo when its cooler, but I'll also admit, I still don't have a perfect system set out. As much as I like the idea of a layered system, I find single bags to be simpler to use and more efficient overall. I'd rather pack heavy and leave a bag open then have to layer in a bunch of stuff and try to sort it out. But then I sleep cold, and while I can sleep almost anywhere its not always as long a sleep as I'd like.
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Re: Sleep Systems A total systems approach topic

Postby stry » Fri 01 Jan, 2016 10:40 am

Moondog55 wrote:Well deep winter is of course Antarctica or Far North Canada/Greenland/Siberia in winter
My current "System" while being heavy is probably good for -40/-50 Don't know really because I've never had the chance to use all the components together but from memory it grosses 7 kilos, 2 kilos of which are the mats?? and yes it takes up almost 15 litres compressed not counting the mats
I'd like to knock 3 kilos and 5 litres off that [ mats included]

I don't have anything to contribute in those circumstances. I don't want to be there !

Gadgetgeek wrote:As much as I like the idea of a layered system, I find single bags to be simpler to use and more efficient overall. I'd rather pack heavy and leave a bag open then have to layer in a bunch of stuff and try to sort it out. But then I sleep cold, and while I can sleep almost anywhere its not always as long a sleep as I'd like.

That's pretty much how I roll, although I wouldn't call my usual bag "heavy" :) I like layering in the bag, with stuff that is being carried and used anyway, to be my back up only.
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Re: Sleep Systems A total systems approach topic

Postby Moondog55 » Fri 01 Jan, 2016 10:56 am

Stry aren't you already more than half way to this sort of system with the Vireo and parka combo? Add a lightly insulated shell that holds the pad and you're good for most of Australia Add a UL over quilt and you get another 20 degrees
I admit I've made a mistake with my overbag and I am definitely going to remake it into a shell with pad sleeve
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Re: Sleep Systems A total systems approach topic

Postby stry » Fri 01 Jan, 2016 12:43 pm

Moondog55 wrote:Stry aren't you already more than half way to this sort of system with the Vireo and parka combo? Add a lightly insulated shell that holds the pad and you're good for most of Australia Add a UL over quilt and you get another 20 degrees
I admit I've made a mistake with my overbag and I am definitely going to remake it into a shell with pad sleeve


Sort of. "Belt and braces" is deeply ingrained in my decisions. The Vireo/jacket will get a serious run (not in the shed :lol: )when things cool down. Maybe even in Tassie in early April 2016. I think the downside of the simplicity would be pretty uncomfortable warm nights. The Vireo seems quite snug around the legs, which is good, and I expect that choice of jacket will provide some flexibility. I tested it with my lightest jacket and it seemed to work fine.

I am very keen to try my quilt from Mike in a couple of weeks. I'm hopeful that, perhaps with a jacket, the quilt will address possible warm nights and still be adequately warm. But If I expect to encounter temps much under 0, I will revert to my conservative form and use a good bag with possible backup from clothing. Being skinny means that I can wear a jacket in a slim down bag without undue compression. I've only resorted to a down jacket in bag a couple of times (IIRC) and each time I got a noticeable boost in warmth, although the bag(s) were only around 150cm shoulder circumference.

I don't intend to be anywhere where I need an overbag :D, although I have dabbled with one bag inside another and the potential was quickly obvious, despite the serious problem of the bags that I used not being cut to complement each other.
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