tough mats?

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tough mats?

Postby wildwanderer » Tue 30 Aug, 2022 7:33 pm

Suggestions for a sleeping mat that is relatively lightweight and tough.

3/4 length ok. Ideally less than 600 grams and compact size. R value 3 or greater.

Must be tough enough to withstand being on rocks with a persons weight on it. etc.

So far I'm thinking the close cell foam mats.. although they are bulky and r value is usually less than 2.

Does a inflatable mat exist that had the above desired specs?
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Re: tough mats?

Postby crollsurf » Tue 30 Aug, 2022 8:05 pm

I use an OrangeBrown 3mm foam mat under my inflatable these days. It replaced (folded) my sit mat but I love it because it stops my mat sliding around at night on the tent bathtub floor (unfolded).
https://orangebrown.com.au/collections/accessories/products/foam-mat
The OrangeBrown is the same as you get in the US but cheaper postage. It should give you a decent amount of protection against rocks and multi use; Sit pad, non slip mat, fire fanner...

That said, I did have a mat failure recently in cold weather and the deflated Neo Xlite and the 3mm worked fine. I never thought a Z lite et al. would ever work for me being a side sleeper but now I'm starting to wonder. https://www.thermarest.com/ie/sleeping-pads/fast-and-light/z-lite-sol-sleeping-pad/z-lite-sol.html

Maybe go the 3mm under your inflatable and see if that's tough enough
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Re: tough mats?

Postby EGM » Tue 30 Aug, 2022 9:04 pm

Maybe try a thermarest classic self inflator. They seem pretty tough.
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Re: tough mats?

Postby wildwanderer » Tue 30 Aug, 2022 10:03 pm

Thanks crolly.

Those 3mm look very interesting.

Do you know what the pack size is? They seem to fold up into a zip lock on the manufacturer site.
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Re: tough mats?

Postby crollsurf » Tue 30 Aug, 2022 11:14 pm

wildwanderer wrote:Thanks crolly.

Those 3mm look very interesting.

Do you know what the pack size is? They seem to fold up into a zip lock on the manufacturer site.


Roughly the size of a pair of jeans but way lighter. Seeing as I also use it as a sit pad, I strap it down on the top of my pack so it takes zero room in my pack. You could use it as a liner in your pack as well although the bottom of the pack could/would still get wet.
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Re: tough mats?

Postby wildwanderer » Wed 31 Aug, 2022 2:09 pm

Thanks. When you say pair of jeans do you mean a folded pair of jeans?

So it could be folded into a rough rectangle like a pair of jeans?

Just trying to determine the bulk and viability of putting this in a 30 L pack with other gear.
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Re: tough mats?

Postby crollsurf » Wed 31 Aug, 2022 5:57 pm

Probably a bit smaller than a folded pair of jeans and you can fold it pretty much anyway you like. 30L isn't big so you may struggle. I currently strap the 3mm outside of my pack, on top so it's easy to get too. Might work but don't think 3mm will last long bush bashing.
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Re: tough mats?

Postby craigprice » Sun 11 Sep, 2022 7:35 pm

If 600g is the target along with good R value, then there are inflatable mats with heavier material that will be more robust and cheaper than thermarest as (inflatable and self inflating).

Eg AltonGoods insulated mat has an R rating about 4 (it’s warmer than my Xlite and a bit warmer than my Tensor insulated), has a 3 inch (7.5cm) loft, and has tougher material than most inflatables, feels robust. The insulated version weighs only 510g (very competitive for R4.2 with robust shell) and best of all - it only costs $94.
Local Australian made by local Australian company and quality at a low cost.
Their quilts and bags are awesome too, btw.
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Re: tough mats?

Postby Lamont » Mon 12 Sep, 2022 10:11 am

Local Australian made...
Seen this comment about Alton before (and not suggesting you are having us on) but, unfortunately not-according to their own website. Wish it were correct. Need more Ozzie made stuff. :D
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Re: tough mats?

Postby headwerkn » Wed 14 Sep, 2022 10:20 pm

crollsurf wrote:I use an OrangeBrown 3mm foam mat under my inflatable these days. It replaced (folded) my sit mat but I love it because it stops my mat sliding around at night on the tent bathtub floor (unfolded).


Cheers for the link - I've been after a local source of the 3mm/1/8" high density foam matting a lot of the US thru hikers have been using as sit pads and to protect and slightly boost the R-value of their Uberlite/Xlite mats. Thought I could get away with a cut down Kmart yoga mat (5mm medium density foam) and was dismayed at the weight - 450gr for 1000 x 500mm! By comparison the 3mm weighs 44g for the same dimensions. 'Practically weightless' isn't an understatement. Both seem to compress to the same thickness too.

To answer Wildwanderer's questions:

From OrangeBrown it comes folded to approx. 165 x 260 x 30mm. When I fold my size 34 jeans to the same WxL, they're about 50mm thick. So, decently smaller... though your jeans may vary ;-)

That shape/size slipped without much fuss into the back stretch pocket of an Ultimate Direction Fastpack 30L pack (packed for a 5-day fastpack, minus some food) alongside my wet weathers. Could obviously refold it to suit many other spots - side compression area, bottom of pack (hard to get at as a lunch sit pad though) or as a back/sides former to help a frameless pack carry its load.

Some hastly taken pics below. Hope this helps.

IMG_4205.jpg
3mm mat folded, in rear pocket of UD Fastpack 30, with lightweight WP jacket and pants alongside.
IMG_4205.jpg (90.12 KiB) Viewed 5993 times

IMG_4207.jpg
Minor additional bulge. 30L 95% loaded for multi-day fastpack. Still quite a bit of room.
IMG_4207.jpg (100.08 KiB) Viewed 5993 times

IMG_4208.jpg
L - R - Kmart 5mm yoga mat cut to 1000x500mm, ISO standard jeans, ISO standard Nalgene (for scale), 3mm foam mat 1000x500mm
IMG_4208.jpg (128.49 KiB) Viewed 5993 times

IMG_4209.jpg
Same, side profile. Hard to tell without the mats being held flat, but the 5mm mat is around 40-45mm thick when folded to 165x260mm W/L. 3mm mat is about 30mm and the jeans are over 50mm.
IMG_4209.jpg (106.84 KiB) Viewed 5993 times

IMG_4210.jpg
3mm mat folders noticeably flatter.
IMG_4210.jpg (81.94 KiB) Viewed 5993 times
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Re: tough mats?

Postby craigprice » Wed 14 Sep, 2022 11:57 pm

Some advice based on personal experience and to help others avoid the costly mistakes I’ve made -

Most of the 1/8” mats available today since covid are not the same as what was sold by Gossamer Gear originally and pre covid
I still have an original Gossamer Gear mat and it’s made of a much “springier” EVA type material, which still only weighs minimal (90g for full length!). It doesn’t compress flat and “rebounds” afterwards. When you press your fingernails into it it doesn’t cut or leave a permanent compressed mark. It’s tough and springy. But super light. And warm at least a little.

Since 2020, and currently, the 1/8” stuff from GG, Outdoor Vitals, and numerous other cottage SUL providers, is not the same material. They material is very soft CCF and compressible and no longer a good choice. It compresses and doesn’t rebound afterwards, it damages easily, and tears easily. You can tell this with a pinch test with trimmed fingernails - does it recover? Or do your fingernails/ fingers leave permanent marks or cuts?

This was the same for OrangeBrown when I bought two mats from them last year. Just the same soft CCF. Is yours any better? If so OB must have sourced the Good stuff again!

And you can actually get the same soft CCF stuff most are selling by the metre from Clark rubber at a fraction of the cost (just without the logo embossed on it). I know, as I’ve bought new mats from GG and 4 other SUL providers and still have the original GG one. Very different material . It is not the same when it made the name as a SUL mat in its own right to sleep on (Glen Peski). The stuff that most sell doesn’t give a noticeable R increase or extra protection either as it compresses and even tears easily, and is useless for sleeping direct on as we did on torso mats of the original ones - it’s main value is only stopping inflatable mats from sliding on silnylon floors.
I’ve been using this material for cosy’s but even then it is
Not durable and doesn’t last.
Hope this helps!
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Re: tough mats?

Postby headwerkn » Thu 15 Sep, 2022 9:58 am

craigprice wrote:Most of the 1/8” mats available today since covid are not the same as what was sold by Gossamer Gear originally and pre covid
I still have an original Gossamer Gear mat and it’s made of a much “springier” EVA type material, which still only weighs minimal (90g for full length!). It doesn’t compress flat and “rebounds” afterwards. When you press your fingernails into it it doesn’t cut or leave a permanent compressed mark. It’s tough and springy. But super light. And warm at least a little.


Ok interesting, did not realise... just did the "fingernail" test and what I got from OrangeBrown seemed to spring back immediately with minimal marking. I feels like legit high density foam, as far as I can tell. Definitely doesn't "compress" as much as a regular yoga mat.. the Kmart ones I use definitely take a long time to recover from sustained pressing ie. your hand/foot prints stay intended for 30-60 secs.

Whether it's similar to the OG Gossamer pad, I don't know - haven't seen those in person. Looks very similar to the version Darwin Onthetrail uses/has used (where I first came across the concept of it as a multi-use replacement for a Z-pad type sit pad) though maybe his seems softer/less stiff? That might be from wear/use, or just how he's folded it. Videos below.

https://youtu.be/5oaW30qoJzU
https://youtu.be/BVCINZJMOwQ

Obviously I'm not expecting a thin sheet of foam to magically turn an Uberlite into an Xtherm, but laying on it last night (admittedly on carpet) I could feel a little "warmth" being reflected up. But I think for a bit of extra protection for the paper-thin Uberlite and as a big-enough mat for stretching/pilates at the end of the day's running, it should be worth the weight and bulk.

Durability TBC next week...
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Re: tough mats?

Postby crollsurf » Thu 15 Sep, 2022 10:22 am

I thought it interesting about the original GG mat as well. I'm happy with the OB mat, mainly as a sit pad and to stop my mat sliding around at night.
I just got back from camping on some rock in the Budawangs. The mat was over a DCF floor and stippled with gravel/stone indentations in the morning but has since bounced back. As a protective layer for sleeping I think it's fine, just remove any razor sharp stones before setting up. I'm pretty sure the tiny indentations on mine are from using it as a sit pad on rocks, where the weight/cm is greater, but even then the foam has only been compressed (not punctured) and would still give protection against sharp rocks.
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Re: tough mats?

Postby craigprice » Thu 15 Sep, 2022 10:37 am

Oh awesome, thanks!
Great to see OB survived and hope they continue - one of the precious few Australian manufacturers.
I’ve just bought a few of the OB torso mats now to see if the material is more like the originals.
Not sure I can give up the luxury of my 3inch inflatable but will see this summer
I will post my review.
Thankyou!
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Re: tough mats?

Postby crollsurf » Thu 15 Sep, 2022 10:46 am

craigprice wrote:Oh awesome, thanks!
Great to see OB survived and hope they continue - one of the precious few Australian manufacturers.
I’ve just bought a few of the OB torso mats now to see if the material is more like the originals.
Not sure I can give up the luxury of my 3inch inflatable but will see this summer
I will post my review.
Thankyou!


Err, I only bought mine about a year ago as well so may well be the same as the other one you bought. Be interested to know. Mine looks like the same as headwerkn's
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