Titanium foil question

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Titanium foil question

Postby Moondog55 » Tue 14 May, 2024 3:26 pm

Is the TOAKS windshield foil the same as is usually used for small wood stoves or is the stove flue foil thicker and if so by how much?
I've looked at the website and the thickness isn't given.
Looking at a few U-Tubes it seems to be much thinner but I find it hard to guesstimate by how much
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Re: Titanium foil question

Postby Biggles » Tue 14 May, 2024 5:02 pm

A similar and better designed item at Backpacking Light in Melbourne that I have seen; had to go and look on their website, though I saw it last Wednesday, it's made by Vesuv; it is shown as 0.1mm ti foil — commonly supplied in bulk rolls for manufacturing applications. The drawback with these fancy, overpriced products is they can cause injury; the extremely thin material makes it impossible to bevel or fold over the edges. The TOAKS website shows US$10.95, which is $18.80 here e.g. at Ultralighthiker.com.au

https://www.backpackinglight.com.au/pro ... ernew-1-3l

https://ultralighthiker.com.au/products ... windscreen
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Re: Titanium foil question

Postby Moondog55 » Tue 14 May, 2024 5:14 pm

The main reason I asked is that I have a spare Titanium flue but it is so thin I can't accurately measure it with my cheap calipers
I usually use cheap aluminium roof flashing for my windscreens but I was thinking of something else
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Re: Titanium foil question

Postby crollsurf » Tue 14 May, 2024 10:48 pm

Ignore, I missed your last post

I think that would depend on the brand. Pomoly are making lightweight woodstoves for hiking/bushcraft, so the material they use for flues would be the lightest out there.

Couldn't hurt to ask them.
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Re: Titanium foil question

Postby Bill P » Fri 17 May, 2024 9:36 pm

Hi Moondog, I have a toaks ti shield. Its too thin for my calipers too. Based on its dimensions (580 x 110mm), weight of 14 gr and the density of ti (~4.506 g/cm3) the foil thickness calculation comes out at 0.0487 mm . So I thinks its made of 0.05 foil. (I didnt discount for the punched holes.) It is thinner than the ebay ti foil i have.
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Re: Titanium foil question

Postby scoha » Sun 02 Jun, 2024 11:12 am

Would it be crazy to use these for gas cannister set ups? Need to prop up so cannister isnt shrouded Im guessing
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Re: Titanium foil question

Postby Moondog55 » Sun 02 Jun, 2024 12:11 pm

Before I went to a remote stove I used a windscreen as a matter of course in snow, probably a good idea in cold windy conditions but used with caution. Never had a problem myself in winter in snow tho and a windscreen is packed in my winter "OhShit Kit"
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Re: Titanium foil question

Postby craigprice » Fri 14 Jun, 2024 9:49 am

A little late to the party but I do have equipment that measures it and have done so before.
My records are as follows. Sorry, I can’t find my file with details of the grade/composition of titanium used - it matters as to stiffness and hardness and pretty much all sheet and foil is an alloy. China makes most of it today and is high quality. The US suffered a shortage during covid and prices went astronomical. The Chinese suppliers are all good - just order the stiffer harder alloys for use.

A Toaks windscreen is 0.05mm nominal titanium foil. It’s a good grade Ti and ideal for windscreens but needs a paper clip to hold it together.

Most commercial pot stand/collars are made of 0.1+mm Ti sheet
e.g.
Traildesigns fissure and caldera cones are 0.12mm nominal
Flatcat gears Snow leopard is 0.12mm

Most UL flat pack stoves use 0.5mm Ti e.g. Emberlit stoves

There are foils on eBay etc and IMO these are just too thin even for windshields,
Better to use pie tin aluminium
EBay generic Chinese 0.03mm - so thin it struggles to hold form a cone, avoid

Suluk46 Annuri screens are 0.07mm - I find them too thin for windscreens on their own, as they “unlock” too easily, you still need a paper clip to hold them together. So Toaks works as well.
Toaks windshield at 0.05mm - needs a paper clip to hold together and not able to support a pot obviously

For comparison, Coke and Pepsi cans are 0.09mm plastic lined aluminium
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Re: Titanium foil question

Postby rcaffin » Tue 18 Jun, 2024 5:50 pm

I use both Ti foil and Al foil for windshields. Both work, but both are a bit problematic on sheet rock. I just cannot secure them to the ground in any way, and the Ti foil is a bit springy and does not want to 'sit'. On soil I can peg them down, as shown here.
9692.jpg

(V7 remote inverted canister stove, 45 grams total)

Ho hum - I dare say I will think of something for sheet rock.

Cheers
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Re: Titanium foil question

Postby slparker » Wed 19 Jun, 2024 1:55 pm

@ Moondog - In the snow I use the abundance of snow as a windshield - works a treat to pack snow around your cookset or build a shelf in a snow wall around the tent.

I have tried Ti foil and found it just annoying and difficult to set up a system using bulldog clips and whatever to try and hold it in place. I've given that up now ( as well as foil/flashing combos which just fall over or blow ove rin the wind) and use a combo of a soto amicus and my pack, on its side and propped up with a rock, as a windshield.
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Re: Titanium foil question

Postby Biggles » Thu 20 Jun, 2024 3:03 pm

slparker wrote:@ Moondog - In the snow I use the abundance of snow as a windshield - works a treat to pack snow around your cookset or build a shelf in a snow wall around the tent.

I have tried Ti foil and found it just annoying and difficult to set up a system using bulldog clips and whatever to try and hold it in place. I've given that up now ( as well as foil/flashing combos which just fall over or blow ove rin the wind) and use a combo of a soto amicus and my pack, on its side and propped up with a rock, as a windshield.



I agree with using snow to build a wall around your cooking area. This would be the suggestion of many people snow camping in preference to the annoyances of keeping windfoils in place!

Building a snow wall for protection of the tent and for shielding the cooking area was a skill shown to me on my first ski-touring overnight trip in July 1991 from Hotham to JB Plain (camping at the hut, but tenting in the snow). Using a snow shovel and following the example of the tour leader, small blocks were created out of the snow and fashioned into a curved windbreak, the largest for the entire group around 3m from one end to the other! The two trip leaders were very experienced and got the job done quite quickly. Skis were used to flatten the top of the wall as a suitable storage place. Within one of the walls near the end were four holes punched with bottles of VB — cold beer...in the snow...whodathought...! :lol: :lol:
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Re: Titanium foil question

Postby Moondog55 » Thu 20 Jun, 2024 4:41 pm

I agree with people about windscreens in the snow, an insulated platform is what's really needed but then again if cooking inside a vestibule sometimes you need the windscreen and fr that I use aluminium roof flashing.
My query was more about flues for small titanium tent stoves. But as I haven't yet done the short walls for my new 'Mid I may not get to use the small stove this white season.
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Re: Titanium foil question

Postby rcaffin » Thu 20 Jun, 2024 5:58 pm

In vestibule, in the snow, with a 100 kph snow storm outside (seriously). Trail Designs windshield, 3-ply base.
Coleman Xtreme stove, so photo from long ago. Can't remember what was in the pot - dinner, obviously.
5641.jpg
5641.jpg (112.8 KiB) Viewed 483 times

Cheers
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