Bushwalk Australia

I am looking for a new tent.
I want a tunnel tent again - I currently have a tunnel tent and have been very happy with it. But it is now 17 years old or more, and it is getting to the point that I am reluctant to have my life depend on it.

So. I want another tunnel tent. I want two vestubles - smaller at the back, big enough to put a couple of empty packs and a couple of wet japaras.
The tent MUST be 4 season. And now that 17 years has gone by, I am hoping there might be something lighter in weight.
I can only find two tents on the market at the moment that kind of meet the criteria - the Macpac Olympys, and the Bibler Tempest. There's the Bibler Fitzroy as well. OK That's three...

From what I can tell, the Bibler tents are a single skin tent - not an inner and an outer. In my view, I need an inner and an outer because of condensation - a single skin tent such as these - and indeed the Bibler Bombshelter, are fine as single skin tents at altitude - higher altitude than what Tasmania has to offer, meaning condensation will be much less of an issue. And as I aren't planning any Everest ascent, a single skin tent won't be ideal for me.
Unless, of course, I am wrong on this score, does anyone know?

Then the Macpac Olympus. Not entirely light weight - 3.8kg. Also from what I have seen in the shops, the rear vestuble is not really there...

Does anyone know of any tent that might interest me?

I just wish they still made the Hallmark Snowcave - a perfect tent in most respects.

Have a look at the MSR range. They have updated their range over the last couple of months with the Asgard and the Hubba Hubba HP.
The Asgard looks perfect for what you are looking for but it does weigh about 3.5kg so it's not exactly light.
The Hubba Hubba HP isn't exactly a 4 season tent but it is 'Fast and Light' at 1.7kg, it's identical to the Hubba Hubba except it has a different tent body to suit 'challenging' conditions.

http://www.msrgear.com/tents/asgardhp.asp
http://www.msrgear.com/tents/hubbahubbahp.asp

My vote is for the Wilderness Equipment 1st Arrow. I did alot of research when I originally purchased it. Had it for 7 years now. The main point that I went for over the Olympus is the mutitude of ways you can use the front vesibule.
It is classed as a 2/3 person tent, I would not like to have 3 people in it . Nice and roomy for 2 people.
The 2nd arrow, ( a mate has it ) is snug for 2 people but is lighter.

Roger

I absolutely love my Olympus, but mine is a few years old, and has two large vestibules. I'm not sure I'd want it if it only had one (as I think the current models do?). Additionally, I'm not sure I could justify the price (mine was a gift).

I'm also in the market for a lightweight bomber tent. I'm considering a Hilleberg tent http://www.hilleberg.com/Home.htm called the Kaitum. It has two huge vestibules, very roomy, and is lighter than the Macpac Olympus. it can be purchased from the US for about US $700 including postage. Current exa=change rates makes this a a far cheaper option too than the Olympus. You can see it being set up on this Youtube vide http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HpojVCi6D_c

Peaksnik wrote:I'm also in the market for a lightweight bomber tent. I'm considering a Hilleberg tent http://www.hilleberg.com/Home.htm called the Kaitum. It has two huge vestibules, very roomy, and is lighter than the Macpac Olympus. it can be purchased from the US for about US $700 including postage. Current exa=change rates makes this a a far cheaper option too than the Olympus. You can see it being set up on this Youtube vide http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HpojVCi6D_c

I use a Hilleberg, and am very happy with its weight especially.
I also use Macpacs - the main difference is that the Macpac floors are far more heavy duty (and thus heavier), but I always use a tent footprint anyway.

I am not a lover of tunnel tents though due to the hassle of getting in/out and lack of headroom.

my 2c worth...
You are pretty much right adam about the bibler tents, i have the tempest and have not experienced huge problems with condensation, but certainly more than with most standard double wall tents. As you said they are ideal for high altitude but not ideal for Tassie conditions. That said, it is one of the better tents i have tried in terms of design, roomy and high for two people, very stiff pole structure and good wind resistance. You need to be very careful with the fabric as the furry inside coating seems to make it very rippable on sharps surfaces (mine has quite a few holes). Big vestibule at the front and reasonable size at the back, plenty of room for 2 people and all their gear. They are also very expensive, over $1000 for the tempest(i got mine cheaply on ebay). The macpac tents are up there with the best in quality, but i dont have much to say about them RE experiences.
The Wilderness equipment tents are good value, great designs and reasonably priced. It is definately worth getting the sil nylon version if you go with a WE tent (lighter, water shedding but more $$$) Second arrow is light and strong but small for 2 people (or tall people).
Dont know all the MSR tents but the hubba range is FAR from 4 season.
alex

Tasadam dont remember if I have contacted you re the Snow Cave but you are most welcome to take mine for a test run with a big dollar saving.
corvus

I am not a lover of tunnel tents though due to the hassle of getting in/out and lack of headroom.

That's certainly true for some tunnel tents, however I think it depends very much on the particular model of tent. I've never had any problems getting in/out of the two tunnel tents I've had, nor has there been any lack of headroom.

The advantages of tunnel tents are for extreme conditions such as high wind. Unlike the more rigid tents, they will flex in string wind, shedding the force more easily. A rigid tent will not move so much, and will have to stand up to the full force of the wind.

As an example, I had one night on shelf camp (Mt Anne) where I was in my old tent - a two pole tunnel. The highest pole was high enough to sit up inside without my head touching the ceiling. However, that night a very strong wind came through and the strongest gusts flattened my tent so much that the high pole actually bumped into my face a few times while I was lying down, and after the gusts, the tent just popped straight back up again to it's correct shape. Sure, I didn't sleep terribly well, but at least the tent coped well with shedding the wind pressure.

The next morning, I stepped outside and the tent took off in the wind. Thankfully I still had one foot in the door and managed to step on the edge and pull it in again. However, it ripped in a few places as I was trying to fight against the wind with it. This process would have been impossible with a rigid tent - I would have just taken off with a rigid tent if I didn't let go.

About 6 months ago we bought the WE Second Arrow (tunnel tent described as "5 season"). Have only used it 2 or 3 times so far, in mild conditions, most recently at Narcissus R in early January. Was grateful then for the multitude of ventilation options, as it was quite warm and swarming with flies and mossies.

We've yet to test it in any extreme weather, but believe that it should stand up to just about anything including strong winds and snow. My understanding is that you should pitch the narrow end into the prevailing wind.

Agree with previous posts that it is on the cosy side for 2, or for especially tall people. Due to the design it is just OK for us roomwise. You have to sleep with your head at the main vestibule end. My walking buddy son is about 6ft but I'm a relative short.rse so we just fit in. It's narrow at one end and the second vestibule is quite small but can take, say, a couple of pairs of boots &/or other bits and pieces depending on how inventive you are. You can also stash some narrow stuff at the sides. I've found that the design of the front vestibule makes it quite easy to get in and out even if fully packed with gear. Due to the shape, sleeping mats will run up the inner wall at the foot end. That hasn't presented a problem but we're currently looking at updating our existing Exped mats with these http://www.insulmat.com/2007/index.cfm?action=product&productID=132&groupID=23&familyID=1 which would be a better fit due to the mummy shape. Although the main reason is that my back kills me these days on thinner mats.

Headroom is OK but lower than our other tent, a freestanding dome with dual side vestibules.

I particularly like the features and flexibility of the 2nd Arrow. The integral pitching is especially welcome (can also pitch the outer only if desired). The main downside I've found is that it is sometimes awkward to find the pole sleeves and takes longer than desired to feed the (2) poles through. This might be partly due to inexperience with this tent.

We checked this tent out thoroughly before buying it. Visited the store a couple of times and actually pitched it in the shop twice, lay down in it, sat in it, put sleeping mats in it, packed rucksacks in the vestibule (tight but can be done), opened and closed all the zips etc then packed it away. Good idea to do this with any tent and most reputable stores shouldn't have a problem with that. If buying anything from OS obviously you can't do this so recommend doing the research meticulously.

We also considered the First Arrow (among many other tents ). As Roger (norts) said earlier it's roomier but also heavier. And that's usually the dilemma I've found when researching tents. So we compromised on a the smaller, lighter version.

Kind regards,
John W

PS I found that WE don't supply pegs for the guy ropes, only enough to stake out the tent. I complained to the store and they posted me 4 lightweight pegs no charge.

John in regard to sleeping mats have you looked at the Exped downmat 7. It is bliss. Best nights sleep I have had when bushwalking. I use the short, but I have ducks disease.

Roger

norts wrote:John in regard to sleeping mats have you looked at the Exped downmat 7. It is bliss. Best nights sleep I have had when bushwalking. I use the short, but I have ducks disease.

Roger

Hi Roger,
Yes I've had a look at them. In fact that's currently the only other option on my shortlist. Our current mats are Exped SimLight 2.5 (full length) and have been happy with the quality and robustness of them, but just not enough bulk to overcome my backache. The gear store where we bought them stocks most of the Exped range including the down mats (last time I looked). They also have the Insulmats, so should be easy to do a side-by-side comparison.

I'd probably also consider the short version if I go with the downmat, to keep the weight down. Being somewhat vertically challenged myself think I could probably get away with that.

Kind regards,
John W

corvus wrote:Tasadam dont remember if I have contacted you re the Snow Cave but you are most welcome to take mine for a test run with a big dollar saving.
corvus

Hi Corvus.
We have considered this snow cave of yours long and hard. For a tunnel tent, I couldn't be happier. But really if we are to buy another tent, we think it would be wise to buy something new, and hopefully, lighter.
Surely in the >15 years since the Snowcave was made, technology has advanced and the fabrics will be better, stronger, lighter, faster...
It doesn't mean yours is off the list, just depends what we can find...

Thanks too for all the comments so far, detailed reading and research to do when time permits....

G'day Tasadam,
Every time I offer it I say to myself whatif and feel a wee bit better when it looks like a no sale ,because as you would know to replace it if required would be in the vicinity of $800.00 or more so it can stay in storage and be used again when number one son is with me on long walks in winter again.

Of interest, John Chapman did a review of tents in the latest Wild magazine. I picked up a copy from Paddy Pallin in Launceston earlier inthe week.

Is it just me, or do other people find the equipment reviews in Wild not than satisfying.

They try to be non commital, except for a simple star rating, pointint out what to look for. At the end of the articles I often feel none the wiser and any opinions I have unchanged.

Maybe I read too many car magazines, where most of the writers are self opiniated and tend to give judgements very easily.

msr dragontail weighs 1.4kg so is pretty light weight. http://www.msrgear.com/tents/dragontail.asp

JAy

G'day jay 590,
Thanks for your input do you own one of these or are helping with this info ? I have made my choice (Microlite ) and posted my comments however I am always open to other suggestions and welcome info to this forum

no i dont own one of there just postin info

Jay

OK So my wife and I were going through this thread and considering our somewhat limited options.
Then she asked me what would happen if I googled
4 season tent under 3.5 kg
So I did just that, not overly optomistic.
I got this result - http://www.findmeatent.com/specs/4-Season/
Now. Go through THAT list...
We found one that sounds good
Has anyone heard of these?
http://www.warmlite.com/start.htm
Thinking about the 3R.

It's a small world.

Nice... I'd very much like to see those in person.

Adam keep us posted

that lady posing with the tents doesnt seem to be wearing any clothes....is that in line with this forums rules? probably needs a warning. its distant...but id hate to see children corrupted by nekkid hot chix

actually that site needs a big warning....the sleeping bag section is right out. although the row of what looks to be 20 naked ladies in sleeping bags does look inviting

Son of a Beach wrote:Nice... I'd very much like to see those in person.

misquotation possibilities are endless here

Son of a Beach wrote:Nice... I'd very much like to see those in person.

corvus wrote:Adam keep us posted

Due to the popularity of this post and the further information sought (and NOTHING to do with the discovery by taswaterfalls.com about the contents of the sleeping bags etc ), I have decided, reluctantly, to volunteer my time to go to the USA and check this gear out in person.
Sponsorship sought.

AKA
Is someone gonna pay me to go take a closer look at those booags and stuff? C'mon, I'll take my camera and makie a special gallery post......

Seriously though, I wonder if those tents are as good as they say they are.
But if they need unclad girlies to advertise their stuff, it can't be all bad... Can it?

Back on track, the weight is up there. I mean down there. I mean low. My only concern is no guy ropes - but they say they are good for nearly 160km/hr winds - with only 4 pegs (3 pegs on the 2R). Unsure. Thoughts?

Sounds like I've missed something here... did I look at the wrong pages? Maybe I was in too much of a hurry last night.

OK. I got curious. Google is cheaper than USA.
Went looking for further info on Warmlite.
Now I know why they need naked ladies to sell their gear.

Start here
http://www.weasel.com/jack.html

Then find numerous letters written to this "weasel" chap about experiences with Warmlite gear here.
One of which is

From: Kris
Subject: Stephensons
Date: Sun, 17 Aug 2003

i read with interest and amusement your on going correspondence with Jack Stephenson. I too, have had to try to deal with him and in some ways I was amused, but mostly bewildered at his approach to customer service. I am surprised that the company allows him to use email. He is very insulting and unwilling to even consider that his (some of, certainly not all)product may have a manufacturer's defect. I personally think he is clinically ill. I have a 3R tent that has had numerous problems and he has called me an idiot, a moron etc. and claims that I don't know how to operate a zipper. That is a skill that I think I understood 50 years ago. My tent has been back for repairs 4 times. I have numerous other tents that have withstood much worse weather and shown no signs of fatigue. Thet claim theirs can"easily withstand winds in excess of 95MPH". Not my 3R. 35-40 MPH is pretty touchy. Enough though. If you can post this somewhere, go ahead.

Now, I know you can't believe everything you read on the internet - indeed there is another post that says

Interesting. I read the exchanges (until I glazed over). It reinforces what others have said about Jack -- that he is an opinionated, egotistical sumbitch. I bought one of his tents nonetheless, but haven't had much time with it yet to develop opinions about his products. I got it on the recommendation of one other guy who has two of his tents (a 3R and a 5R) and swears by them. Sorry to hear about your trials and tribulations with that bag. It's one thing to spend $100 on a bag and have it turn out to be a poorly constructed rag, and quite another to spend over $700 to discover that the guy who built it won't stand behind it.

Then I found these reviews where everyone but one rates them highly...
http://www.outdoorreview.com/cat/outdoo ... px#reviews
Some of the Customer Service comments are amusing...

Customer Service:
Jack *is* indeed a little quirky. I got on his good side and we had a coupla nice long chats about tent & sleeping bag technology. Yes, the catalog does contain some pics of nudist/naturalists in/near tents. I don't think people should be offended by that, or even make an issue out of it. Unlike a large percentage of ads we are bombarded with everyday everywhere, Stephenson's catalog is not a "sex sells" kind of thing. My take is, Jack doesn't give a damn about people who don't truly enjoy nature and the outdoors and he isn't in it for the money.

and

Customer Service:
Have used repair service seveal times, mostly they taught me how to fix the problem myself. Always a pleasure to talk to people who know and enjoy what they are doing and have never sold out.

I ask "Have used repair service seveal times" - WHY?????
and

Customer Service:
The people at the Customer Service are partially like the Soup Nazi on Seinfeld. I actually get a chuckle from speaking to them but they are to the point and don't waste any time. I like it that way. There is no waffling between issues during the conversation. You are told what the rules are - make your choice.

In summary?
http://www.trailspace.com/gear/stephens ... view/4824/
and
http://www.trailspace.com/gear/stephens ... view/5237/

I won't be finding out anything else about Warmlite. Unless, of course, someone springs for a ticket to check out the staff at the sleeping bag advertising department.

tasadam,

After reading through this thread I did some research on the Hilleberg Kaitum tent.
I've been looking for a lightweight 4 season, double wall tent for a while and after reading this article - http://www.backpackinglight.com/cgi-bin ... eview.html
(you need to be a BPL member to read it, if you want me to send it via pdf just PM me)
I decided to buy one yesterday from Moontrail.com for just under $800 delivered.
$800 is a fairly large amount but if you look at it as a 5-10 year investment it's not that bad.

My partner and I are off to walk the Overland in 2 weeks so i'll let you know how it goes.

Damien

I've not heard of that one before, but it does look good. I'll be interested in hearing how it all goes when you've used it for a while.

There's another short review here.