Bushwalk Australia

Forum members have a go at macpac and people come to their defense
Forum members have a go at kathmandu and NO ONE comes to their defense......thats says it all lol!

etrangere wrote:Forum members have a go at macpac and people come to their defense
Forum members have a go at kathmandu and NO ONE comes to their defense......thats says it all lol!

I think that $49.00 for a 1lt Aluminium Kathmandu water bottle says more than a lot
corvus

(Sadly,) Hat on.
Rule number 1, first 4 words, Keep all content friendly.
There was an unnecessary and unqualified dig at Macpac. There has been some response.
You guys have got no idea how much discussion has taken place today between the moderation team on how to handle these things. We don't want to be the fun police, and we don't want to get accused of "over moderation". But if something is said on the forum, it needs to be considered that all parties are going to read it, be it Macpac, Kathmandu, or another forum member. It's a public forum.
If a comment is justified, that is, some qualification to a comment is made, such as...
"because I had a bad experience with a piece of gear" or "because in my opinion their gear is always overpriced" or "I'm stirring, I like it but can't afford it" or some other explanation, then so long as the post fits with the rest of the rules, then it is usually fine, as there is something to discuss.
But when a comment is unqualified, and serves only to invite others to have a bit of a dig as well, that can not be considered "friendly" and as such, should not be made.
We do not want to moderate the forum, we instead want members to be considerate of the rules and abide by them so as to not need moderation.
And rules may be modified accordingly.

Lastly, if something is said that anyone has a problem with, please remember how to report a post. Responding usually makes things worse.
Hat off again.

Isn't the weather great at the moment? A far cry from the last few months... Time for a walk!

tasadam wrote:

Isn't the weather great at the moment? A far cry from the last few months... Time for a walk!

We are doing the Never Never via Jackson Creek track Myrtle, Meston et all , 22nd till 26th you and Mrs tasadam are most welcome to join us
corvus

HaHaHa - oh dear.

For the record - all of my Macpac gear is great and I have a pair of Kathmandu walking pants that have lasted 3.5 years through quite a lot of scrub and sat on many a dolerite boulder, and is still going strong, no complaints there.

Trick is as we all know, we are getting ripped off if we pay full price for anything off any manufacturer....

So there you go all positive, and yes the weather is lovely Adam, just might go for a walk tomorrow, wearing my Macpac top and Kathmandu pants

Oh BTW, and back on topic my very sensibly priced Scarp1 is fine for Tassie walking at this stage.

stepbystep wrote:Trick is as we all know, we are getting ripped off if we pay full price for anything off any manufacturer....

Well! "Ripped off" is an opinion. Its a bit like the big debate started by Gerry Harvey and his mates about whether we should pay GST for products purchased on line. What really should be discussed in both cases is what did you get for your money. Did you get a fuller service from the local retailer that justified the higher price? If not, then why did you choose to shop with that retailer? Was it convenience? Did you have a higher motivation like supporting local employment? Or were you just careless about where you spent your money? There are so many reasons why people are prepared to pay retail prices. But if retail operators want people to shop in their store and pay higher prices, then IMO they need to provide a service that justifies the price.

etrangere wrote:Forum members have a go at macpac and people come to their defense
Forum members have a go at kathmandu and NO ONE comes to their defense......thats says it all lol!

C'mon. Kathmandu are imitators and knock off merchants and I don't think they've done a second of R&D in the last 10 years that hasn't been "copy someone else".

ollster wrote:C'mon. Kathmandu are imitators and knock off merchants and I don't think they've done a second of R&D in the last 10 years that hasn't been "copy someone else".

Do you have evidence to support that, or is it just your opinion. It isn't fair (or appropriate) to simply ridicule anyone without some supporting evidence or first hand experience. And (not saying it is necessarily the case here, but...) it is particularly unfair to simply repeat a popular street-opinion or third hand comment without supplying factual evidence in support of the claim.

[rant]Who copied who in the PC clone wars and was every copy inferior? Is every iPhone imitation an inferior product? You know it is sometimes damn hard to decide who copied who in product innovation. I have my opinion on the answers and I'm sure you have your own opinion, but opinions are like ... . To have an intelligent discussion you need to provide a few facts and a little bit of evidence.[/rant]

moderated in line with rule 1

walkinTas wrote:

stepbystep wrote:Trick is as we all know, we are getting ripped off if we pay full price for anything off any manufacturer....

Well! "Ripped off" is an opinion. Its a bit like the big departed started by Gerry Harvey and his mates about whether we should pay GST for products purchased on line. What really should be discussed in both cases is what did you get for your money. Did you get a fuller service from the local retailer that justified the higher price? If not, then why did you choose to shop with the local retailer? Was it convenience? Did you have a higher motivation like supporting local employment? Or were you just careless about where you spent your money? There are so many reasons why people are prepared to pay retail prices. But if retail operators want people to shop in their store and pay higher prices, then IMO they need to provide a service that justifies the price.

Ummmm, never said anything about online purchasing, how about I rephrase my 'opinion' - Trick is, as we all know, we will always pay more if we don't shop around...........
Buying gear is the same as buying a car or an Indian takeaway, bit of research and patience goes a long way!

stepbystep wrote:Ummmm, never said anything about online purchasing...

No you didn't, I was trying to drawing a parallel.

stepbystep wrote:how about I rephrase my 'opinion' - Trick is, as we all know, we will always pay more if we don't shop around...........

True! RRP is only a guide anyway. Sometimes I do pay more because I'm too lazy, or in a hurry, or can't be bothered, etc... to shop around. What I was trying to suggests is that paying full price (RRP) is not always a problem. What really sucks is when you pay an inflated price for an inferior product or inferior service, especially when you were lead to expect a better product or service was being offered.

In general I agree that if you have the time to shop around and if you care to negotiate, you will often (not always) get a better price than the shelf price.

walkinTas wrote:
In general I agree that if you have the time to shop around and if you care to negotiate, you will often (not always) get a better price than the shelf price.

In my experience when it comes to walking gear, it is always possible to get things for around 50% cheaper online than in the local stores.

There was an article in a paper recently about a surf shop struggling financially as they were getting customers come in to try on a wetsuit, then go and buy it online. They are thinking about charging people to try their wetsuits and clothes on now!! Is that fair?? Is it really bad of us to buy something online if we can get it for more than half the price???

Wow.. this gets complicated! So to say 'Kathmandu is Crap' is ok so long as you also say 'I know this cause iv'e been there' Hold on, no, both are opinions so far! I'd have to say 'Kathmandu is crap cause Iv'e bought lots of stuff from there, got repeatedly ripped off paid too much ( doh!) and my stuff has all fallen apart! I'm fine with this but arent these 'be nice' rules based on opinion (and supposition that we all know how to perfectly phrase things)... Taken literally it would mean a complete list of photos of all the offending stuff, evidence of proper use and care and submission of price comparisons to similar models from other manufacturers... You guys might have spent all day on it... but Why? All this round-a-bout, why not just the offender pays the price, was it a sitting of parliament!

Ok, I see what your getting at with some of the earlier comments but Really, who bases a purchase decision on 'XYZ is crap'

I have to disagree with the moderation team , I will go along with the umpires decision though. This is a public forum for people to discuss their opinions, not well researched and referenced science papers, and people form their opinions from many different sources some more logical than others. It is then up to the people who read the forums to make their own opinions from what they read. People are able to gather as much info as the wish to make up their own mind. And as Adam said it is a public forum so then whoever disagrees with something can then offer their own opinion.

In regards to my comment about Macpac it is quite obviously an unsubstantiated tongue in cheek remark and I would hardly think that it would sway anyone’s opinion of Macpac. It has more chance of changing people’s opinions of me (which is ok, it’s the internet I can handle it). Being a public forum Macpac has the option to query my statement.
It would be far worse for a companies image if you were to say i don’t like them because this this and this broke. Not that this could be said of Macpac of course but one company does spring to mind.

Surely is in unnecessary to moderate tongue in cheek remarks because people are smart enough to recognise it for what it is.

But in summary, if I have hurt anybody’s feelings I am deeply sorry.

walkinTas wrote:

ollster wrote:C'mon. Kathmandu are imitators and knock off merchants and I don't think they've done a second of R&D in the last 10 years that hasn't been "copy someone else".

Do you have evidence to support that, or is it just your opinion. It isn't fair (or appropriate) to simply ridicule anyone without some supporting evidence or first hand experience. And (not saying it is necessarily the case her, but...) it is particularly unfair to simply repeat a popular street-opinion or third hand comment without supplying factual evidence in support of the claim.

[rant]Who copied who in the PC clone wars and was every copy inferior? Is every iPhone imitation an inferior product? You know it is sometimes damn hard to decide who copied who in product innovation. I have my opinion of the answers and I'm sure you have your own opinion, but opinions are like &#2*&^%s, everyone has one and they all produce a lot of hot air. To have an intelligent discussion you need to provide a few facts and a little bit of evidence.[/rant]

Dont care about copies just think about a $49.00 1lt aluminium water bottle I have been wearing Kathmandu Nylon shorts on all of my walks over at least four years and they are perfect yet have one of their (Micky mouse) sun/insect proof shirts ( gift ) which is abrading at the collar and evidence of poor stitching after only about at the most 15 days use (think the "retail " price was $139.95 ) sale price around $ 55.00 so I believe that we well within our rights to comment on some resellers (bearing in mind that Kathmandu is a Retailer not now a manufacturer ) just like K Mart.
Macpac, a whole separate story and my MP Stellar is a good tent when I choose to use it as is my TT Scarp 1, my Fairy Down Snow Cave would still be my choice for Extreme weather however like others have commented the Microlite was not and an unfortunate expensive failure for me.
corvus

You have a mickey mouse shirt?

do i have to list my gripes about a certain company each time I wish to call it crap.... or can i just list it once and there after refer to it as crap....
(and i was pretty sure that that name was common public opinion)

Sorry... good post Corvus, good to know about your opinion/experience with various tents in Tassie

Just a little point of clarification. When I post I am just a member of the forum. No different from any other member.

When I moderate I do so using a different colour. My moderation is always clearly moderation.

Moderation: The moderation team are not about stopping discussion or stifling opinions. The moderation team work with the same set of rules that everyone else works with. The efforts of the moderation team are about ensuring those rules are understood and followed.

So it isn't moderation when I say I don't think you should throw opinions around like candy - actually I used a slightly different analogy, but it doesn't matter.

Corvus just provided his reasons - or some of them. Now I have his reasons I can better understand whether there is any substance to his claim.


Edit: ....by the way, I would be happy to talk to you guys about my opinion on what moderation is, as per the above, but probably best not done here. You could start a topic in the "Forum & Site" board if you want to have that conversation.

Nuts wrote:You have a mickey mouse shirt?

Nuts you are like most of your generation too young to know that "Micky mouse" is a derogatory term like Gees that P76 is really Micky mouse
corvus

corvus wrote:Dont care about copies just think about a $49.00 1lt aluminium water bottle

corvus wrote:I have been wearing Kathmandu Nylon shorts on all of my walks over at least four years and they are perfect

corvus wrote:have one of their (Micky mouse) sun/insect proof shirts ( gift ) which is abrading at the collar and evidence of poor stitching after only about at the most 15 days use

So, one apparently over priced product, one good product, one inferior product. And what did you conclude from this?

By the way, did you actually pay that price for the water bottle or did you shop around? How did you go when you returned the shirt? What sort of service/reception did you get?

My experience with crapmandu took a down turn when i bought a cookset at 50% off.....a few months later i saw the EXACT same cookset (ie from the same factory in china i would suspect) cheaper at full RRP at another camping store. After that i started looking at product specs and prices. Good example a crapmandu tent of certain specs/material/hydrostatic head etc, noticed that their RRP was so much more than a similair product in other brands of tents with same specs......in other words they overinflate their RRP to be able to offer their so called sales throughout the year. Not sure what it is in each state but i belive that a company only has to have a product at RRP for about 58 days before they can claim sale prices on it. So they can put a tent at an overinflated RRP of $800 for 58 days and then then advertise it at 50% off for the other 307 days of the year. As far as Im concerned someones moral compass is def pointing in the wrong direction, and if its pointing the wrong way on that one issue how many other issues is it pointing the wrong direction in regards too??

Crapmandu reasoning:
2 sleeping mats both with leaks
shirts that have colours faded and cotton worn far more than should for the use they got
there backpack harnesses are no where near the level of one planet or macpac but there rrp is
Their business model of highly overpricing stock for 3 weeks of the month then halving the price for 'sales' im sure there margins are still good on sale gear. They are not alone on this one but this is what drives us to use the foreign websites. On the internet you can get good prices all the time not just get lucky on sales. I did laugh when poor billionaire Gerry Harvey was complaining that he had to pay gst while internet sites didnt, must be tough for the poor guy.

walkinTas wrote:

corvus wrote:Dont care about copies just think about a $49.00 1lt aluminium water bottle

corvus wrote:I have been wearing Kathmandu Nylon shorts on all of my walks over at least four years and they are perfect

corvus wrote:have one of their (Micky mouse) sun/insect proof shirts ( gift ) which is abrading at the collar and evidence of poor stitching after only about at the most 15 days use

So, one apparently over priced product, one good product, one inferior product. And what did you conclude from this?

By the way, did you actually pay that price for the water bottle or did you shop around? How did you go when you returned the shirt? What sort of service/reception did you get?

You fair dinkum wT
When did you last check out the prices in Kathmandu??
Did I pay $49.00 for a bottle (only if it was full of Single Malt)
Shorts 2 pair one only with moderate use (son's) mine full use and still going strong on no complaint (one up for them)
Shirt as stated Gift so no receipt and ergo very hard to return however if you have influence I will be happy to meet up with you and look forward to you superior negotiating skills.
To answer you wT this retailer is flawed ,why not just sell at reasonable prices ( but then again I do know some folk who do pay retail ) do you.
corvus

OK, so weve all been ripped off by Kathmandu... doh!

(Hey, did i mention my Kathmandu footy pillow? )

now, bout those tents.......

If you've got the time watch this show, you might be able to work out why our minds work e rationally when we buy things.


Mind over money
http://player.sbs.com.au/programs#/prog ... y-Full-Ep/

walkinTas wrote:Do you have evidence to support that, or is it just your opinion.

I've had several pieces of Kathmandu gear. This includes a pack, which was, at the time, was a total knock off of the Macpac packs at the time. I stopped buying their product many years ago, however.

Their tents have also always looked like Macpac knock offs. Azza had one once, and it was a copy of the Olympus.

Nuts wrote:now, bout those tents.......

You mean these ones?
I remember....

I had vague recollections of the Fairydown Snowcave...
History tells us it was a three hoop tunnel tent, similar to the Olympus (if maybe less easy on the eye )?


$51.50
http://www.trademe.co.nz/Sports/Camping ... 199724.htm

tasadam wrote:

Nuts wrote:now, bout those tents.......

You mean these ones?
I remember....

Thats an interesting thread. To me, it ends up kinda neutral though, with np's post and the final outcome?

scatmandu. I was carrying my TENT in my rucksack in Tasmania when I decided I needed to take a compass bearing, as it was pretty misty. The newly bought Scatmandu model may as well been a roullette wheel. When I realised what a useless piece of equipment it was I had no inTENTion to use it. Any bets? 53degrees..............sorry still spinning!
Thank ?>:"@#$% I had a GPS with me aswell.