Bushwalk Australia

Hey guys im at that stage everyone gets too, ultralight hiking, yes im hooked, im looking for a tent under 2.5kgs (i know not exactly ultralight but i dont want to compromise comfort/safety) preferably free standing, 2 man, SMALL PACK SIZE this is more important to me than weight and easy setup/ takedown lastly under $500 thanks in advance guys !

If you go to Moontrail you can get the Nallo2 (Yes, I know I have mentioned it a lot, but I like this tent!!) delivered to Australia (including WA) for AUS$542.78 on today's exchange rate. http://www.moontrail.com/hilleberg-nallo.php
Packed weight 2.1 kg, easy to screw up small... Poles strapped to the outside of the pack, and peg bag fits in anywhere.
Unless you went single wall (which I wouldn't recommend - do a search), you won't get much smaller. Even with single wall you won't gain much if any saving for space and I am not familiar with lightweight single wall tents.

Macpac "Winter Sale" just begun.
Microlight: $350; Minaret: $525 (2.4-2.1kg, max/min)
The former's a footprint marvel for awkward spots.
In Tassie, the floor material is all.

Hilleberg Akto 1.5 kg
Terra Nova Laser Competition under 1kg
Scarp 1.2 ish
MSR 1.5-2kg ish

"free standing" ... depends on what you mean ... if you mean that it can be pitched without the need for any pegs then there isn't much choice ... Hilleberg Soulo comes to mind

more choice if you look for tents requiring only a small number of pegs under average conditions.

most of the tents mentioned so far need a minimum of 4 pegs methinks

MSR Hubba & Hubba Hubba can make do with 2 pegs

all good tents, just a matter of picking the one that most matches what you're after

I'm just trying to work out which of my current 3 tents to keep ... Helsport Ringstind 1, MSR Hubba HP (the European current model, green), or Nallo 3 ... suspect that I'll keep the Ringstind, mostly coz of the headroom ... in that case the other 2 will be on the market ... Hubba is brand new, unused, at cost $385 ... Nallo 3 a few years old, good condition, $450 maybe ... PM me if interested (I'll be bush from this afternoon until Sunday )

The Tarptent Double Rainbow could be one to consider, 1.2kg, 2 man :

http://www.tarptent.com/double-rainbow.html#overview

Freestanding with trekking poles and has an optional inner mesh to help with condensation. Certainly not as bomb proof as a Nallo, but what conditions do you mainly hike in ?

I've found my Nallo way too stifling in warmer weather so use single wall tents in those conditions. Which of course is why 1 tent is never enough

For a 'two man' tent... i'd agree, the Nallo (either 2 or (how tall are you?) 3) is hard to better.
The mesh inner (available as an option) I would have thought a better choice to make it more usable over summer (rather than buying a second tent)?

Macpac looks good value also atm? Either way, personally i'd go with the Macpac Olympus (or a 3 pole Hilleberg) over either the minaret or nallo in really foul weather, if reducing weight isnt the main object.

I dont know of any freestanding tents under 2.5kg that would compare? That said, you dont mention where/when you are using it? There are many cheaper '3 season' options..

The Tarptent Scarp 2 with crossing poles fits all the criteria. Though personally I'm not sold on the build quality, they are a great design, spacious and light. That's all I can think of if it is for 2 person use.

check out the Mountain Hardwear Skyledge 2.1 - weighs 1.9kg, cosy for 2, but has 2 big vestibules.

There's also Hammocks to consider, Hammock camping have a huge following particularly in the states, I'm planning on purchasing a Warbonnet Blackbird Hammock from the states, weighs less than a kilo, and you save further weight by not having to carry a sleeping pad. I own a Hilleberg Nammatj 2GT, a great tent, but it's over 2.5kg. excellent tent for backpacking if your sharing with someone else, One can carry the poles and inner and the other carry's the outer and pegs. But for hiking on your own, a bit to heavy, hence why I'm going to purchase a hammock for my solo trips.

My Warbonnet Blackbird 1.0 double-layer hammock (no longer available), plus WB Edge tarp, with stuff sacks, guy lines, pegs, etc is 1275g. For the two of us, it's about the same weight total as carrying our Macpac Minaret.

For sleeping in a hammock you still need to carry some insulation for underneath you if the temp is less than about 10-15°C overnight, depending on your comfort zone. You can use a CCF or self-inflating pad for this, or some people, including me, find an underquilt more comfortable. A down underquilt and top quilt together weigh about the same or a bit less than a sleeping bag and pad of similar temperature rating.

There's obviously pros and cons of tents, hammocks, tarp-tents, bivvies, etc. for which you have to consider your own needs and preferences. I got the hammock initially because I found that with the two of us the Minaret is stifling when the temperature is above about 20°C, then found I was much more comfortable and slept far better in the hammock. If I rate my own bed as a 10 for sleeping comfort and cold, wet, rocks as a 0, I give my Thermarest and tent about a 4 or 5 and the hammock about a 7 or 8. YMMV. Probably I'll look at swapping the Thermarest for something more comfortable like an Exped Downmat before I use the tent again.

Marwood, those costs seem to add up real fast. You're looking at
hammock: $160
tarp: $100
under quilt: $190
top quilt: $250

so you're looking at $700 for a full setup? Ive been looking at them cheap $150 hennesy hammocks to try out. Are they much worse off than these warbonnets? Cant you just use your own sleeping bag and forgo the $450 WB quilt setup?

I only paid $US130 for the 1.0 hammock, but unfortunately they're not making that model any more. Its replacement is the 1.1, which is $US160. I initially bought the hammock and Edge tarp, which was $US465 for 2 hammocks, 2 tarps, and P&P. I started off with using my existing Thermarest pad and my existing sleeping bags (I have an old Macpac down winter bag and a Kathmandu down summer bag). After some trials, I found that the pads didn't suit me, so I recently swapped the pads for the Warbonnet 3-season Yeti underquilt. But there's a lot of folks that stay with pads and don't see the need for a UQ. I'm still undecided on which top quilt to get or whether to get one at all, so for now I'm sticking with my two sleeping bag options. In any case, SWMBO won't approve the purchase . I also spent a bit on guy lines and pegs, but not a whole lot.

Compare total of $US700 for hammock + tarp + UQ + TQ, to the current prices of my ground-dwelling set up:

Macpac Minaret: $AUD525 (MWC price)
Thermarest Prolite Plus: ~$AUD150
Macpac Latitude 500 (roughly equivalent to WB 3-season TQ): $AUD360 (current sale price)
Total = $AUD1035.

The difference between Warbonnet and Hennessy is more a matter of opinion I guess, but there seemed to be more positive feedback about the WB. But there are a lot of happy Hennessy owners out there. You can use a pad and sleeping bag with the Hennessy too. Just as an aside, I believe the shipping costs to Australia for a Hennessy are significantly higher than for a WB.

Apart from that a simple gathered-end hammock without a sewn-on bug net is pretty easy to make, and pretty cheap if you want to just try it out while it's still not mozzie season. You just use regular ripstop nylon or polyester for a hammock rather than silnylon, as you want it to be breathable rather than waterproof. I'm thinking of making a bridge hammock to try out, and I think I can do that for about $60-80.

Just be sure to consider a hammock is not going to be useful if you need to hole up quick because a blizzard hits. You can be right 99 times, but the 100th time when it hits you properly can be quite scary and it is comforting to be somewhat prepared and have a realiable shelter. Parts of tassie that can happen any time of year (but maybe less likely summer/autumn). WA i assume you are ok.

Otherwise, I prefer the hammock too, and they excel for hot conditions (MUCH better than a tent). With a little planning / extra gear they can work ok for very cold as well - but not where high winds / snow / difficulty finding trees is an issue.

Wow sorry for not replying quickly, i idnt realize the speed of all posts compared to other forums. Anyway modified criteria.
I already have a vango tunnel tent 4 season its not the lightest its not the most compact it does the job so the new criteria is either a 1 or 2 person small packsize tent or a hammock setup, i live in WA so most hikes will be in warm conditions and in response to some of the posts its always mozzie season here -.-. And in response to marwood i own a downmat 9 and it is awesome ! i get a bit paranoid about it bursting though =O I guess i Could use the downmat uninflated in my hammock for warmth ?

I love the Mont Moondance II as a two man tent. Although I consider it a couples tent and not a two man tent. Mine has handled strong wind and heavy rain with ease. It is free standing. It's quick to set up and you can pack it up in the rain. It's under two kilos and it's fairly compact. It has been good for tenting in the subtropics and breathes pretty well.

http://www.mont.com.au/index/catalog/product/112

But I agree with some of the other people that have commented. I won't go back to tenting. I love my hammock. It's light and more compact having no poles. I can cook under the tarp without worrying about burning the floor. It handles any kind of weather and I can set up in more places including unlevel ground that has a better view. The most damage is a slight indentation in the bark even if I use tree straps, which is much less than the damage done to the ground with a tent. There's no mattress to worry about (making it a lot lighter), it's pleasant to hang about and admire the scenario from the hammock, and it's just more comfortable to sleep in than a tent. (Sorry I'm sure we have covered this plenty of times before).

If you wanted a cheap hammock that'll do the job well for your climate, I'd suggest to try the DD Frontline. It has two layers so you can insulate your hammock easily whether with a light mat or still just use a underquilt. It has a complete mozzie net with double zippers. To save weight you can try taking one tarp and both hanging underneath it. I've only seen pictures of this and have never tried it.

To upgrade to a 4 season all you have to do is get a new tarp and underquilt rather than upgrade the whole hammock.

I wouldn't carry a 1kg downmat (I also own one, it's so comfortable) when for $50 you can buy a 3/4 underquilt weighing 50grams that'll do a much better job.

Hey guys im thinking i may go for the hammock, what are my best options? Why do i need an underquilt and over quilt whats wrong with a sleeping bag? Where do i buy a quilt? Whats wrong with the down mat? Help appreciated!

Sounds like you need a hammock then

mattmacman wrote:O I guess i Could use the downmat uninflated in my hammock for warmth ?

I have used the synmat UL partly inflated (you need to puff it up to get the insulating power). It is comfortable and warm but too narrow (in a hammock it is harder to keep everything aligned - this is in a double bottom hammock as well).

But at a pinch - yes, especially if you did something to tie the mat in so it stayed in one spot. But the beauty with a hammock is that the underinsulation does not need to provide any comfort at all - just R-value. So a thin sheet of CCF, although bulky, is cheap and will give you just about the best r-value for weight available. Other options abound - check out hammockforums on the web.

One word of warning though - many people take a few nights to get comfortable sleeping in a hammock. Not that it is uncomfortable (quite the opposite) - just a completely different way of sleeping that can sort of keep you alert and not sleeping well at first. Make sure if you go this option to give it at least 4-5 nights of testing to get used to the differences.

Other people report sleeping like a log from the first night

Cocksy_86 wrote: I love my hammock. ... It handles any kind of weather and I can set up in more places including unlevel ground that has a better view. ....

Like a snowstorm? And how do you set it up above the treeline?

nq111 wrote:Sounds like you need a hammock then

mattmacman wrote:O I guess i Could use the downmat uninflated in my hammock for warmth ?

I have used the synmat UL partly inflated (you need to puff it up to get the insulating power). It is comfortable and warm but too narrow (in a hammock it is harder to keep everything aligned - this is in a double bottom hammock as well).

But at a pinch - yes, especially if you did something to tie the mat in so it stayed in one spot. But the beauty with a hammock is that the underinsulation does not need to provide any comfort at all - just R-value. So a thin sheet of CCF, although bulky, is cheap and will give you just about the best r-value for weight available. Other options abound - check out hammockforums on the web.

One word of warning though - many people take a few nights to get comfortable sleeping in a hammock. Not that it is uncomfortable (quite the opposite) - just a completely different way of sleeping that can sort of keep you alert and not sleeping well at first. Make sure if you go this option to give it at least 4-5 nights of testing to get used to the differences.

Other people report sleeping like a log from the first night

What is CCF? I'm interested in using something lighter than my Downmat.

Closed cell foam. Like a thermarest zlite, GG thinlite or various other brands. Can probably get it from Clark Rubber too?

north-north-west wrote:

Cocksy_86 wrote: I love my hammock. ... It handles any kind of weather and I can set up in more places including unlevel ground that has a better view. ....

Like a snowstorm? And how do you set it up above the treeline?

Yes, my hammock can handle a snow storm but we don't get too many up in Queensland here. If I knew I was going to a colder climate I would purchase the right Under Quilt, Sleeping Bag, and Tarp to handle the cold and the weight of the snow.

This guy below, as crazy as he is, seems to have a lot of experience with hammocking in colder climates. He's done ten videos all up I think.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0GQFuhtlaAE

I have had to use a couple of sticks to use my hammock as a tent before. I froze. It wouldn't be a problem if I use a thermarest instead of a under quilt. (Then it would be no different to a tent). But a mattress weighs so much more and there's plenty of trees around here. Next time I won't be so lazy to walk to the trees 1km south.

Could the hammock handle a snow storm above the tree line? I don't think it could, as the tarps need to be pretty tight to handle the weight of the snow.

Matt - In a hammock you're suspended in the air. Even though this is good because you're not on the cold ground the air still gets cold and your body heat will never warm it up especially if it's windy. Your sleeping bag gets compressed under your body weight which gets rid of the loft and stopping the warm retention it's used for. So basically your warm and toasty on one side and practically bare naked on the other side. If you learn this the hard way like I did, you don't get much sleep and you will turn every 5 minutes to prevent hypothermia.

So what are our options. Well we can hang an old sleeping bag underneath the hammock which gives it the option to loft and work as it should. This is where the underquilt came from. It's just better designed to wrap just the bottom part of the hammock tight and close. After doing this there is no real point of having the bottom bit of the sleeping bag because the underquilt is doing the job. So they invented a thing called a top quilt which is half a sleeping bag (more like a blanket) with a pocket for the feet at the bottom.

The underquilt and top quilt work out to be not much heavier than a sleeping bag. And with no mattress and a hammock tent lighter than most tents. It's really a weight affective option.

My underquilt doesn't have any down in it and it's just a special material. It doesn't get overly cold where I live. So it's even lighter. It's also easy enough to remove so I use it as a bit of a blanket around the fire (which I don't have ).

The other option is go use a mattress for bottom insulation. Some people prefer it. I personally don't. The best thing about a mattress is it can better handle things if, on the rare occasion, you need to sleep on the ground. But just like a tent person hikes at even ground, a hammocker camps where there's trees, which is better odds I think. With a mattress though I'd suggest a sleeping bag and not a top quilt. As the mattress doesn't wrap you as good as the underquilt and so you can get body exposure.

Anyway, I think that's it in a nutshell. Let us know if you have anymore questions.

cocksy, in the photo below with the DD frontline hammock there is a stick that holds the netting up.
Can you replace the stick with a trekking pole? or is that stick supplied?


with so much interest in hammocks, maybe we should create at new hammock thread instead of steering mattmacman's topic away from his lightweight $500, 2.5kg tent?

ninjapuppet wrote:cocksy, in the photo below with the DD frontline hammock there is a stick that holds the netting up.
Can you replace the stick with a trekking pole? or is that stick supplied?

with so much interest in hammocks, maybe we should create at new hammock thread instead of steering mattmacman's topic away from his lightweight $500, 2.5kg tent?

The DD Frontline comes with little loops on the netting so that a small stick can be fed through it and used to spread the netting apart. I personally would just use a stick (picked up from the ground) rather than carry one in. Spreading the netting is more of a luxury anyway and it's not fundamental.

The other good thing about the DD Frontline is it comes with a double layer which will hold foam insulation better than a single layer. There's a good review at the link below.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9yuNBXdpPaQ

I guess we got onto hammocking as a alternative method of meeting his 2 man, under 2.5kg, under $500, WA climate, shelter needs. I agree there should be a separate topic on it. But I'm not a moderator so I'll let them make the choice. In some ways, it doesn't meet his criteria, as 2 hammocks and 1-2 tarps is heavier than a tent. But then 2 hammocks, 1-2 tarps, no mattress, 2 underquilts, and 2 top quilts is lighter than a 2 man tent, 2 sleeping bags, and 2 mattresses. It's more comfortable and relaxing...ect ect and it's easy and cheap to convert to a 1 man option (not having to carry a 2 man tent for solo hikes) or a 3 man option. So a bit more variety.

Cocksy_86 wrote: for $50 you can buy a 3/4 underquilt weighing 50grams that'll do a much better job.

Hi, Have you got anymore info on the $50.00 underquilt you could share with us. All the ones I've seen so far online are over $100.00

Phillipsart wrote:

Cocksy_86 wrote: for $50 you can buy a 3/4 underquilt weighing 50grams that'll do a much better job.

Hi, Have you got anymore info on the $50.00 underquilt you could share with us. All the ones I've seen so far online are over $100.00

Hi Phillip,

I lied. Looking over my receipts it wasn't $50.00 it was $90.00 (USD). It's a bloke with a home business. Nice enough guy and happy to do a good deal.

http://www.mollymacpack.com/new.html

Anyway, sorry for the misinformation.

DD Frontline Hammock - $90 - 1050grams
http://www.amtcgear.com.au/products_det ... oductID=47

Underquilt - $90 - 155grams
http://www.mollymacpack.com/new.html

Tarp - $65 - 650grams
http://www.amtcgear.com.au/products_det ... roductID=5

Tree Straps - $15 - 100grams (guessing)
http://www.amtcgear.com.au/products_det ... oductID=73

To start I'd just use a sleeping bag and unzip it most of the way, but leave the feet still zipped up. I use a Aframe tarp but I hear the diaganol tarps handle bad weather pretty well too. There's no reason why that hammock with a 4 season tarp and a decent down underquilt can't handle the snow. But, like mentioned by someone else, test this out in the backyard before out in the bush.

Been reading this thread with interest, I think the main issue with tarps and snow is that you need a steep angle to shed the snow and that has a bigger sail effect you also need a bigger tarp so while I have only one night in a hammock in the snow my educated guess is that the weight gets high fast if you are going to be prepared for really bad weather.
But I may well be wrong and off base with my conclusions

There seems to be plenty of trials that a hammock can be used in really cold weather.

But I wouldn't be using one in alpine areas and the like - a tent has too many advantages in those places. A hammock doesn't retain warmth, is not going to be fun in high winds, you can't cook and melt snow in a hammock, if you get caught between trees with only a hammock... It is possible, but it don't think bivying in a hammock on the ground would be any fun.

In slightly warmer climates however, it is usually much easier to find two suitable trees than a flat campsite (once you get used to looking). You can literally camp on the side of steep hill or hanging over water. You'll never have a rock or root in your back again!

Hennessey and Warbonet seem to be two well respected makes - plenty more (check out hammockforums). I do recommend a double-bottom.

There are plenty of proven successes with hammocks being used in the cold weather. See the link below. To me it makes more sense because you can stay above the snow.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jnoo4BPe2eo

My hammock has handled high winds with ease. It's just getting it nice and tight and tying the right knots. There's also things called weather shields that go over the mozzie nets which keeps the warm air in and acts a bit like a tent.

http://www.junglehammock.com/features_unique.php

I cook under the tarp of my hammock which is way better than risking cooking in the tent. You'll see from the video that melting snow is rather easy in a hammock.

If I was going above the tree line I'd invest in some rock climbing cams and tap into the rock. But that would be harder than finding a spot for a tent. But I'd prefer the less weight.