Bushwalk Australia

The Caldera Cone's 12-10 burner has an interesting and unusual design. While the 12-10 has holes in the side of the body of the burner, it is not a side jet stove, at least not in the conventional sense. With a typical side jet burner, the flames burn out from the jets.


With a 12-10 burner, the flames from the "jets" basically burn in to the burner. If you look closely, you can see the jets burning within.


Join me on my blog today, as I take a quick look at the Caldera Cone's 12-10 burner.

HJ

Hi HJ,

Thanks for your review of the Caldera Cone's 12-10 burner, I too have done extensive testing on the Caldera Cone's 12-10 burner and have come to the same conclusion that it is a very good well tuned burner, I have done so many tests with mine that it is starting to show a bit of wear and tear.

Tony

Hi, Tony,

I appreciate the 12-10 stove a great deal now that I've experimented some with trying to design my own alcohol stove. It's no simple thing to design one better than the 12-10 (although I think your volcano stove did just that). I've been looking mainly into open style burners similar to the Trangia or 12-10, the type where one can simply pour in alcohol, light, and go.

I've decided, at least for me, that alcohol stoves that are hard to light or are hard to fuel are too much trouble. I've also decided that I don't like side burner style stoves where the flames come out of the side of the stove and the pot sits directly on the burner. Too much heat is wasted up the sides of the pot with that style in my experience.

So, given my own personal criteria of wanting something easy to light, easy to fuel, and is not a side burner, it's going to be tough to find anything better than the 12-10.

I was trying to find a way to burn high ethanol content alcohol cleanly, and I was hopeful with one particular design, but that design performed poorly in my latest round of tests. My earlier tests were at a higher altitude and conducted on the cold, concrete fireplace hearth of a ruined hut. The conditions may have led to reduced vaporization which may have in turn led to smaller, cleaner burning flames. But I suppose this is why multiple rounds of tests are conducted.

HJ

Hi HJ,

While the 12-10 is a very good well tuned alcohol stove and there are a few very good alcohol stoves around, as alcohol stoves are easy to make I think coming up with a new design is a bit like re-inventing the wheel, and any advances would be very small if at all. Alcohol stoves are also very difficult to get tuned right.

Below is a photo of the well known side jet White Box stove on the left and on the right is a copy that I was sent called a Furylite, thery are nearly identical except the Furylite uses much more fuel and I consider the White Box not the most efficient stove, why the difference in efficiency I do not know as they look the same but that is alcohol stoves.

I do not like alcohol stoves as they struggle in the cold and are difficult to simmer with.

The other photo is of some of my alcohol stoves that I consider good alcohol stoves, my favourites are the Gramweenie and the Candlelight stove.

Hi
I have been exprementing and now using Zelps starlyte stove (with out pot holder) with my caldera cone sidewinger and Evernew 900 ml pot. I can get the same effeciency than 12-10 stove, packs easy into the pot and I don't need to use tent pegs with sidewinger as stove sits lower than 12-10. Starlyte is easy to lit and use. I have also been using it as a back up with my bushbuddy.

Tony wrote:...alcohol stoves are easy to make I think coming up with a new design is a bit like re-inventing the wheel, and any advances would be very small if at all. Alcohol stoves are also very difficult to get tuned right.

That, Tony is about as good of a summation of the situation with alcohol stoves as one is going to get.

While they're easy to make, creating a new alcohol stove that is some kind of a stand out in terms of efficiency is going to be very very difficult. A lot of very good people have been trying for a very long time. The chances of someone casually coming up with a stove that is head and shoulders above the rest are remote.

I've played with them because they are good teachers. One sees very quickly the trade off between efficiency and speed. Fast stoves are fuel hogs. Efficient stoves are slow. One can see the effect of a windscreen so much more readily with an alcohol stove. An alcohol stove simply cannot over power the wind the way a pressure stove with a roarer burner can. You really have to rely on that windscreen, and in so doing you find out what works and what doesn't. So also with pot size and shape. So also with flame size with respect to the pot.

I fiddle with alcohol stoves not because I expect that the world will beat a path to my door because I've designed a "break through" alcohol stove, but rather because I learn quite a bit.

Tony wrote: Below is a photo of the well known side jet White Box stove on the left and on the right is a copy that I was sent called a Furylite, thery are nearly identical except the Furylite uses much more fuel and I consider the White Box not the most efficient stove, why the difference in efficiency I do not know as they look the same but that is alcohol stoves.[emphasis added]

Again, well said. When I've made alcohol stoves I'll swear that two stoves were made exactly the same way, but I'll get two very different results sometimes. Weather, the ground temperature, the fuel type, the wind direction, speed, and character, these too can cause results to vary greatly

Tony wrote:The other photo is of some of my alcohol stoves that I consider good alcohol stoves, my favourites are the Gramweenie and the Candlelight stove.

Some time I shall have to visit Mr. Zelph and buy some of his wares.

So many stoves; so little time.

HJ

jouni wrote:Hi
I have been exprementing and now using Zelps starlyte stove (with out pot holder) with my caldera cone sidewinger and Evernew 900 ml pot. I can get the same effeciency than 12-10 stove, packs easy into the pot and I don't need to use tent pegs with sidewinger as stove sits lower than 12-10. Starlyte is easy to lit and use. I have also been using it as a back up with my bushbuddy.

Nice! It looks very compact. How much metho does it use to boil 500ml typically?

HJ

Hi Jim,

15-20 ml depending of air and water temperature. In my garage with ideal conditions just under 15 ml.
Cheers
Jouni

Tony wrote:Hi HJ,

Thanks for your review of the Caldera Cone's 12-10 burner, I too have done extensive testing on the Caldera Cone's 12-10 burner and have come to the same conclusion that it is a very good well tuned burner....

Having recently brought one, this is nice to hear

Andrew

jouni wrote:Hi Jim,

15-20 ml depending of air and water temperature. In my garage with ideal conditions just under 15 ml.
Cheers
Jouni

Wow. Under 15ml? That is quite good.

HJ

Aushiker wrote:Having recently brought one, this is nice to hear

Don't know if they'd be helpful (since you've already bought the stove), but I have several items on my blog pertaining to the Caldera Cone and/or the 12-10 stove:

• Caldera Cone Review
• 12-10 Burner Review
• Caldera Cone vs. Clikstand Alcohol Stove Tests

Have a look if you like,

HJ

Hi Jim,

Again, well said. When I've made alcohol stoves I'll swear that two stoves were made exactly the same way, but I'll get two very different results sometimes. Weather, the ground temperature, the fuel type, the wind direction, speed, and character, these too can cause results to vary greatly

You have made some very good points about stove testing, I have run tests on the same stove, same conditions, same fuel, same everything and got two totally diferent results, I am working on the theory that the phases of the moon and the alignmet of the planets has an effect, but in all of this I do see trends appearing and I know when a test is way off what is expected.

When testing alcohol stoves to get better consistency I use a different base which is at ambient temperature for each test as I have found that the ground temperature has a big effect on stove performance, I use both sides of three thick wood bases, which I rotate between each test, by the time I get back to the first side it has cooled down to ambient temp.

I've played with them because they are good teachers. One sees very quickly the trade off between efficiency and speed. Fast stoves are fuel hogs. Efficient stoves are slow. One can see the effect of a windscreen so much more readily with an alcohol stove. An alcohol stove simply cannot over power the wind the way a pressure stove with a roarer burner can. You really have to rely on that windscreen, and in so doing you find out what works and what doesn't. So also with pot size and shape. So also with flame size with respect to the pot.

I fiddle with alcohol stoves not because I expect that the world will beat a path to my door because I've designed a "break through" alcohol stove, but rather because I learn quite a bit.

Also some very good points, I also fiddle with alcohol stoves to learn, as I do with canister gas stoves, all of my canister stoves get pulled apart at sometime, some get modified or remade into remote canister stoves, all in fun and learning.

Zelph puts a lot of time into his stove R&D, and the ones he sells are usually very good, I quite like his GO TO stove, the flame on it is very good (confession:- Zelph sent me some to test at no cost to me).

Tony

hikin_jim wrote:

Aushiker wrote:Having recently brought one, this is nice to hear

Don't know if they'd be helpful (since you've already bought the stove), but I have several items on my blog pertaining to the Caldera Cone and/or the 12-10 stove:

• Caldera Cone Review
• 12-10 Burner Review
• Caldera Cone vs. Clikstand Alcohol Stove Tests

Have a look if you like,

HJ

Thanks. Have seen them. Your blog is in my reader feed

Andrew

Tony wrote:I have run tests on the same stove, same conditions, same fuel, same everything and got two totally diferent results, I am working on the theory that the phases of the moon and the alignmet of the planets has an effect

I firmly believe the tidal forces from the gravitational alignment of the celestial bodies is the cause of any inconsistency in my testing.

Tony wrote:When testing alcohol stoves to get better consistency I use a different base which is at ambient temperature for each test as I have found that the ground temperature has a big effect on stove performance, I use both sides of three thick wood bases, which I rotate between each test, by the time I get back to the first side it has cooled down to ambient temp.

The wood base idea is a good one. I've learned the hard way not to judge a stove on one series of tests.

A lot of my tests are in field conditions which are by their very nature going to vary. I guess the benefit of doing tests under a variety of conditions is that if I do find a stove that can work in all those places where I test, then chances are it will be a good all around stove.

Tony wrote:Zelph puts a lot of time into his stove R&D, and the ones he sells are usually very good, I quite like his GO TO stove, the flame on it is very good (confession:- Zelph sent me some to test at no cost to me).

Thank you for your insight into Zelph's products. I haven't tried any, but they all look well made. Something about how they are presented suggested to me that Zelph is pretty knowledgeable about the subject.

HJ

Aushiker wrote:Thanks. Have seen them. Your blog is in my reader feed

Andrew

Ah. Good man. Carry on, then.

HJ