Ent_World - OSM maps for Garmins

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Re: Ent_World - OSM maps for Garmins

Postby sthughes » Mon 05 Aug, 2013 2:08 pm

Why don't small bodies of water show up? Half of the million farm dams I added near Ulverstone don't show up, nor do the billions of tarns etc you added in the Little Throne area!
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Re: Ent_World - OSM maps for Garmins

Postby sthughes » Mon 05 Aug, 2013 2:15 pm

Also it appears anything tagged "man_made" "pier" is rendering the same way as the walking tracks. No biggy, but would look better different ;-)
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Re: Ent_World - OSM maps for Garmins

Postby sthughes » Mon 05 Aug, 2013 2:22 pm

And finally, it seems minor roads don't hang in long enough at higher zoom levels. Because if you zoom to a certain point you get the main roads (highways, B roads etc) and you get really minor dirt vehicle tracks etc, but the sort of rural C roads in between disappear. I can see you pointing out a clutter conundrum here....
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Re: Ent_World - OSM maps for Garmins

Postby Ent » Mon 05 Aug, 2013 3:40 pm

sthughes wrote:Why don't small bodies of water show up? Half of the million farm dams I added near Ulverstone don't show up, nor do the billions of tarns etc you added in the Little Throne area!


Hi sthughes

The issue was caused by mkgmap been very literal on its commands. So where I have "natural=water & name=*" to display the name of the body of water mkgmap said fine, but with water bodies with no name it then dropped them right down to the most detailed zoom level. Problem now fixed and will make it into the next release of Ent_World.

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Re: Ent_World - OSM maps for Garmins

Postby Ent » Mon 05 Aug, 2013 4:09 pm

sthughes wrote:Also it appears anything tagged "man_made" "pier" is rendering the same way as the walking tracks. No biggy, but would look better different ;-)


To avoid me wandering over the map you might like to give a location?

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Re: Ent_World - OSM maps for Garmins

Postby Ent » Mon 05 Aug, 2013 4:11 pm

sthughes wrote:And finally, it seems minor roads don't hang in long enough at higher zoom levels. Because if you zoom to a certain point you get the main roads (highways, B roads etc) and you get really minor dirt vehicle tracks etc, but the sort of rural C roads in between disappear. I can see you pointing out a clutter conundrum here....


This is a question of screen clutter. I can play with the resolution levels but at the moment I like the idea that footways get highlighted.

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Re: Ent_World - OSM maps for Garmins

Postby sthughes » Mon 05 Aug, 2013 4:23 pm

Ent wrote:
This is a question of screen clutter. I can play with the resolution levels but at the moment I like the idea that footways get highlighted.

Cheers
So perhaps dump the 4x4 tracks at the same time as the minor roads?

Ent wrote:To avoid me wandering over the map you might like to give a location?
Cheers
Well Port Latta was where I first noticed (due to the extremely long pier). But many wharf areas are the same (Stanley, Hobart, Launceston Seaport etc.).
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Re: Ent_World - OSM maps for Garmins

Postby Ent » Mon 05 Aug, 2013 6:41 pm

Hi

In my test system.

Tracks will be dropped back a resolution level so only the footways will hang in.

The pier issue is more a way a pier is defined. The problem faced is if a way is tagged with two tags what takes priority man_made=pier or highway=footway. Before long your style file becomes massive to deal with every combination of highway type. I will leave it as is until I get more experience.

Still need to figure out the sea issue as the pre complied sea files are very rough for Tassie.

The best solution is to apply sac-scale ratings to walking tracks. The usual issue is Australian standards have come up with their own classifications rather than adopting the Swiss system.

I need to do some serious study to work out the best syntax logic. Finding that the default style sheet is rather a rambling ruin of a thing rather than a clean base that I had hoped that it would be. Tends to be a trend that those that figure it out then want to sell the maps so the information becomes more challenging to get. Trouble is a map style for Europe makes not much sense in Australia. And dare I say Tassie map style might not be a good fit for many parts of Australia.

O'well back to mapping in more stuff while I mull things over.

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Re: Ent_World - OSM maps for Garmins

Postby tastrax » Mon 05 Aug, 2013 9:19 pm

Ent wrote:The best solution is to apply sac-scale ratings to walking tracks. The usual issue is Australian standards have come up with their own classifications rather than adopting the Swiss system.


There are actually quite a few track classification systems so I cant see there ever being a global single system. The SAC wiki entry (http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Key:sac_scale) actually spells out some of the flaws in the system and those same flaws will apply to the Australian Standard as well as the Australian Walking Track Grading System (http://www.dse.vic.gov.au/recreation-an ... ing-system)

Some others to ponder

Cut down AS2156 - http://www.wavelengthphotography.com.au ... ations.asp
Tas PWS Classifications - http://www.wyatt-family.com/phil/TrackC ... cation.pdf
A good overview here of lots of systems - http://www.wyatt-family.com/phil/Overvi ... ystems.pdf
Cheers - Phil

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Re: Ent_World - OSM maps for Garmins

Postby Ent » Mon 05 Aug, 2013 10:49 pm

Interesting reading and thanks for that. There appears to be the usual "conflict" between how to rate a track. Is it the difficulty or the physical track itself. The Swiss and Australian standards (which I actually prefer over the Swiss system) rate base on difficulty while I can understand that Parks would rate on the physical track.

Also notice the "encourage not to publish approach". I am reminded over urban traffic management. One school of thought is to funnel all non local traffic through main streets and frustrate so called "rat runs". The second approach is to spread the traffic over as many routes as possible. Each actually has merits with the decision being more political (local residents blockading streets, ets) rather than practical. The same with the air corridors that was beloved by the Americans and hated by the British. The USA system was adopted "through sheer, we won the war and you owe us a huge amount of money negotiations" and has resulted in massive air congestion. The British free sky approach is actually a better system but requires better air traffic systems.

My personal opinion is spread the foot traffic but do acknowledge it is the power of the Chapmans that can turn an infrequently used pad/track into a many thousand deep hordes with the release of the latest book. The current "track" being "loved" to death is the Never Never and around the Walls area as people missing a spot or not willing to pay for the OLT are now aware of the proximity. The Western Arthurs is past saturation point with track work in catch up mode. Ironically attempts to maintain secrecy is offset by walking clubs that head out on mass way past the "recommended" group size as the majority of members are not familiar so follow the leader.

The wildcard is the internet. The thing that amazed me was my first hand experience of an Israel website that is optimized for cheapest travel and "encouraging" members to take on challenges with minimal equipment. I am sure that such sites exist in many languages amongst the backpacker community. The person I am referring to track notes were not Tasmap or even the infamous Chapmans but rather rough forum exchanges and maybe at best basic maps that are more about getting the start. All very interesting but the solution walker management is beyond me, and more likely will be about politics and what people believe than practical issues.

So what do we do in OSM? In a way we are captive to the Europeans as they have standard defaults set in JOSM that "drive" mappers to certain tags and for better or worse that is the Swiss system. As your posts confirms any grading is highly subjective and in my experience prone to ego, "that track is not hard or it is near impossible and you should not do it". I am tempted to render my walking track when a sac_scale tag is used and avoid the classification system. This will remove the current issue of Princess Square paths appearing at high levels. I for one do not want to be involved in debates over what level a track is as we all know there are sections that go up and down any scale. Also weather dependent.

Thanks again and given me food for thought.

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Re: Ent_World - OSM maps for Garmins

Postby Ent » Thu 15 Aug, 2013 6:20 pm

Hi

After a lot of mapping effort in lakes and sorting out the update of the the Australian OSM file using OSMCONVERT finally put up the latest addition of Ent_World. The water body resolution level has been changed so unnamed bodies of water will show depending if they have enough area to make it to the selected zoom level. Car tracks have been downgraded in resolution level so not as visible. The coastline has been drawn from the OSM data rather than the pre-complied sea files and looks better. OSM data from 2013.08.14 has been used.

The OSM data extra for Ent_World has broken the 10MB level, so thanks to the mappers adding data. I am again amazed by the data compression achieved by Garmin with their img files as there has only been minor growth in the Garmin file.

Anyway, enjoy and please post your findings, etc.

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Re: Ent_World - OSM maps for Garmins

Postby Ent » Mon 19 Aug, 2013 8:02 pm

Warning Ent rant follows
------------------------------

It should be no secret that I am very critical of the state of maps in this state of Tasmania. The most annoying thing is the data exists but bureaucratic incompetence combined with a complete absence of commercial commonsense frustrates the provision of information that can be critical in avoiding unnecessary rescues such as being caught on the wrong side of a flooded creek. In fact this happen to our group on the weekend. No problem as we had an escape route thanks to local knowledge of a party member and mobile coverage to arrange a pickup plus a very pleasant private land owner that allowed passage over their private land so the rescue service were not troubled. This is what we always aim for as a plans B to Y and dare I suggest most on this site do likewise. To do this quality mapping data is needed.

Back in 2010 I wrote to Minister explaining the issues with TASMAP's approach and received a nice letter that largely agreed with me but stated that a new way forward was to be released in 2011 that would solve the problems. It is now 2013 and nothing has changed. It was pathetic that TASMAP after missing the promised deadline again and again decided to blame its incompetence on the bushfires that happen after it missed yet another deadline. Lucky for them, and not the bushfire that the people affected. Given the frequency of bushfires in Tasmania it appears that they are "safe" from doing anything constructive.

So I started the OSM project of Ent-World. In my research I found out that the contour lines that I use made freely available from NASA are from 90 metre levels coming from the Shuttle Radar Topography Mission (SRTM). Further research revealed that the 30 metre levels were also made and this data was made freely available to the USA population and after some delay plus public pressure the European public. But in Australia for "military" reason it was not. So anyone found with a ten metre contour map please turn yourself over to ASIO as a subversive :roll:

Anyway, I subsequently found that the "military security" reason was so absurd that even our Federal Government decided to drop this pretext but will only released free of charge the one second contours (30 metres) for selective areas (flood prone ones) and referred me to one of our many state departments. So off went another email this time to DPIPWE requesting the contour data as a private citizen for personal use. And now here is their reply.

Thanks for your email.

It is possible for you to obtain 10metre Contour data from us but unfortunately there is a cost associated with it.
we can customise the data to meet an area of interest for you, and this is prices accordingly.
Alternatively if you were to purchase a significant volume or a Statewide data set it is our current policy that personal-use clients be required to enter into a Data Licence Agreement. This is to protect the intellectual property within those products and to clearly define the terms and conditions associated with their use.

Cost for Statewide LIST 10 metre Contours is $1375.00 Inc GST

Data Format/Projection/Delivery

Shapefile, GDA94-MGA Zone55

Delivery via HTTP site, Link supplied for downloading.

If you wish to proceed and would like a quote for a specific Area of Interest (AOI), all that is required is bottom left and top right co-ordinates, or screen capture or similar.

Payment is preferred via credit card, detail can be taken over the phone or by email.

Please find attached LIST Contour Information.

Kind regards


Now let me apply some simple commercial logic to the above. A private individual for private use has to pay $1,350 for contour information that for Europe and the USA is free. Plus has to sign a contract that as one fellow member found spans numerous pages of legal hogwash. Or the same private individual can pay $99 to a commercial company for the the complete Tasmap coverage of 1:25,000, 1:100,000 plus street directory. Admittedly, with such poor scanning quality to be near useless in some areas, and in raster format meaning only suitable for high res smartphones rather than vector format suitable for the tough GPSs walkers are advise to take.

Now how many of you out there have taken OSM data, developed style and typ files to use mkgmap to develop maps for a Garmin device? Obviously there must be thousands of you doing this and paying the $1,350 plus hiring a team of lawyers to sift through a DPIPWE bureaucrat's contract. I would love to see the sales figures. Honestly, this is "Yes Minister" on LSD!

So we have a terminally incompetent department that is prepared to ridiculously price data that is freely available to the citizens of Europe and the USA in order to sell paper maps, many twenty if not thirty years out of date printed on paper that tears on first use. (Yes even TASMAP admit that their paper is junk.) Plus they do not even hold a complete set of paper maps but will for an undisclosed fee print using ink jet (water based ink?) on unknown paper quality maps out of print if you ask them nicely.

So my aim to improve the quality of contour data has stalled once again due to the Tasmanian Public Disservice inability to modernize nor apply commonsense. This issue will impact on how I vote as the Minister needs to act and jerk this bunch of bureaucrats into gear or maybe privatize the mapping of this state as the situation can not get much more ridiculous.

Sorry for the rant but unless the Minister acts this situation will continue on and on. And if you read in the paper someone firing off a PLB when you know that an escape route exist just blame DPIPWE as I am sure that their incompetence has not assisted the walkers.

Honestly is it that hard to

1. Provide the SRTM data on one second contours free of charge or at worst at a sensible price? Maybe even do the same for the 10 metre contours?

2. Provide TASMAP data in electronic vector format that can be converted into Garmin plus other major GPS formats?

3. Provide the most current data available electronically so when Parks re-routes as track this information is immediately available (such as route into Junction Lake)

4. Charge a sensible price to private individuals seeking the above information?

5. Dump the bureaucrat backside protecting legal hogwash that I am sure cost a fortune and kept many bureaucrats employed to eliminate any chance of sale of data?

6. Seek a third party printing arrangement where its customers can select a paper type and maps to be printed. Count the number of maps you need for the Western Arthurs as it sits from memory on the corners of four 1:25,000 maps. I am sure more than a few printing companies would be happy to provide this service.

Modern technology makes the above possible but instead we have the Lord Kitchener of Khartoum types incapable of modernizing their provision of services. Thank goodness we are not a war our else these incompetents would have us slowly walking into machine guns singing songs of praise to them and executing anyone for subversion that mentioned that this was stupid.

So end the rant.

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Re: Ent_World - OSM maps for Garmins

Postby andrewp » Tue 20 Aug, 2013 12:07 pm

I agree with you Ent. Take what NZ have done. All the 1:50,000 maps are free downloads from LINZ as TIFF, GEOTIFF and SHAPE files. If you send them a hard drive they'll even copy the entire country for you.

There are also very high quality maps for Garmin/Basecamp (I think based on the LINZ data) available from here: http://gwprojects.org/forum/viewtopic.php?f=17&t=1561&start=435.

We should be lobbying our politicians to do the same.

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Re: Ent_World - OSM maps for Garmins

Postby tastrax » Tue 20 Aug, 2013 4:04 pm

andrewp wrote:We should be lobbying our politicians to do the same.


I agree - there is some good data on why NZ went down that path...

http://ict.govt.nz/programmes/open-and- ... a-service/
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Re: Ent_World - OSM maps for Garmins

Postby Ent » Sun 25 Aug, 2013 6:59 pm

Hi

And based on a request from sthughes on another thread for a transparent img containing just the walking tracks and huts to be overlaid over Garmin's map (and others) I bring you Entrails. Ok, it proves that I am not a great namer of things but hopefully someone out there might find it useful. It was remarkably easy to produce using OSM tools but might be a bit rough as basically I thought, um? lets try this and it worked, or more likely appears to work. Here is a screen shot from my Garmin 62s.

Cheers
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Entrails overlaid on Garmin maps using a Garmin 62s.
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Re: Ent_World - OSM maps for Garmins

Postby sthughes » Mon 26 Aug, 2013 11:55 am

Looks great! I don't have Garmin's maps, but for all those who do, but want it to show walking tracks etc, it's a big improvement, and shows waterways etc. better than OSM.
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Re: Ent_World - OSM maps for Garmins

Postby icefest » Mon 26 Aug, 2013 12:21 pm

What I'd really like is the water layer from garmin (or the tasmaps vector layer from theLIST), with the tracks and POI's from OSM and with the contours of ozcontours (or the 1sec DEM, but that'll never happen).

I don't think you can extract the water from Garmin maps though so it'll never happen :'(
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Re: Ent_World - OSM maps for Garmins

Postby Ent » Mon 26 Aug, 2013 1:55 pm

Hi

Copyright would stop any use of Garmin maps unless you have purchased them as I did. In that case Entrails is very handy.

As I repeat myself the real frustration is the best data already exists at TASMAP but bureaucrat stupidity has this locked up.

A few letters have been sent to minister but more are required to wake TASMAP up.

Meantime I am adding in lakes to OSM and encourage others to go this when cloud cover and tree cover is not a problem. Same for rivers. I am happy to load your GPX traces of tracks providing that they are recognized tracks and the GPX plot is accurate.

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Re: Ent_World - OSM maps for Garmins

Postby icefest » Mon 26 Aug, 2013 4:00 pm

You made me start doing lakes Ent... I found that creeks are hard to do on OSM, the imagery doesn't cover them well.
As far as clouds, switch to AGRI B&W in JOSM, that usually is clear but low-res.
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Re: Ent_World - OSM maps for Garmins

Postby Ent » Tue 10 Sep, 2013 3:59 pm

Out of curiosity I started work on Ent_World for Victoria. This is proving to be a challenge for a few reasons. Firstly Victoria does not have a nice neat square to define it (Kennet jokes aside). The solution is to use a polygon which I "liberated" from Cloudmaker. Secondly, OSMCONVERT worked but the data was too big for mkgmap as Victoria has much more data than Tassie so I needed to use splitter. Ok, yet more software to install and learn but then I struck the issue that splitter resulted in multiple files that were smaller in total than the original? Turns out this generated numerous broken way error messages as well. Next trick was to use splitter to do the complete job as OSMCONVERT has issues splitting ways. It worked generating the data but when feed into mkgmap I wound up with a square box of data for Victoria so so much for the polygon. Um? ok more work is required.

So to fill in the time I thought I would download contours for Victoria using the polygon. My I5 Tobshiba was allocated the task as it is a nice machine to take to an internet cafe and take up a bit of spare time. Err? There are only so much coffee that can be drunk so shut the machine down and came home. It now has been twenty-four hours and the computer has one core fully occupied and it has spitted out five boxes of data with maybe a hundred to go :shock: :shock:

I strongly recommend that Victoria and NSW adopt a straight boarder! Anyway be interested to see how things go as I realised I had set the extract on 10M contours which is not helping so will need to do again for 20M. If I succeed then the next trick will be combing OSM data with the contours.

So with a laptop occupied time to get the Netbook up and running in the OSM game. First step was to un-install the uninvited software that was Trojaned with Firefox. That was done but decided to re-install Chrome to purge any trace of the bloatware/adware that snuck in. With that done JOSM, the OSM editor was installed and works.

At the same time project Linux was continued with Chrome installed and Firefox failing to install. Um? Looks like they have even stuffed up the Linux version of Firefox. O'well how to learn to un-install a failed install. But good news is Chrome runs well and I know can access my hotmail account, So getting ready for the OSM on Linux approach.

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Re: Ent_World - OSM maps for Garmins

Postby icefest » Tue 10 Sep, 2013 4:37 pm

This is great news! Thanks Ent!

Now I need to map every area that I walk in in Victoria.
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Re: Ent_World - OSM maps for Garmins

Postby andrewp » Tue 10 Sep, 2013 6:02 pm

I have already done quite a lot of work on Victoria. I will put them up on dropbox tomorrow when I have access to a faster upload internet. The img files are 95Mb (20m contours) or 150Mb (10m contours).

I did not use splitter. When I did, I seemed to lose data in the final img file.

I created my own polygons for western and eastern Vic (fairly rough with a bit of overlap into NSW/SA). I use osmosis to extract separate osm/pbf files for west and east Vic.

I then use mkgmap with a TYP file (thanks to Ent) to build a single img file with either 10m or 20m contours. I am still deciding which is better for me. I have made a few additions/changes to the typ file. The contours were built with phyghtmap.
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Re: Ent_World - OSM maps for Garmins

Postby Ent » Tue 10 Sep, 2013 6:58 pm

Hi Andrewp

Look forward to the result. I have been tinkering with the style and typ files to add in roundabouts. Still need to address turning circles as looking for artist inspiration.

Dealt with separate icons for alpine and wilderness huts along with basic huts. Interesting seeing the European classification of the hut type. Frankly, just about every hut in Tassie would be classified as basic hut or shelter. Even more so with Parks' passion to remove heating (hint a metho heater is generally a very, very, bad joke). Just goes to prove yet again Parks is not family friendly. We have a lot to learn from NZ but not holding my breath.

Out of interest how long did it take to punch out the contours? My laptop is set for a 2014 finish!

Interesting, you found the same issue with splitter as I did. Given its wide spread use I am hunting around if it is me that has something wrong.

At the moment all mapping has been done on Window 7 laptops. As mentioned experimenting with Linux laptop.

Also I need to produce a de-forested img for the Fenix as forest swamps on the black and white display any other feature.

This reminds me. The owner of the OSM Australia site when I approached him was interested in hosting the bushwalking img files. My use of mobile phone Internet rather limits the data I can up and download.

A few people are working on the mapping project and interesting reading the different approaches used. Working on a survival guide for Window users. Just been running out of hours and more importantly data allowance.

More than happy for others to "liberate" my work as that is the culture behind OSM.

Cheers
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Re: Ent_World - OSM maps for Garmins

Postby Ent » Tue 10 Sep, 2013 9:10 pm

Hi All

As requested please find now in the dropbox Entrails extended Australia wide and called AusTrails. Hopefully this small file will cover all Australian paths and huts that appear in OSM. Been rather small it should fit on just about any Garmin capable of running maps. For things like the Garmin Extrex 10 and Fenix you will need to re-name the file gmapsupp.img, but please make a copy of the existing one on your device as this will overwrite the Garmin one.

For more powerful GPSs like the Garmin 62S it can be run concurrently with standard maps and provide an enhancement to the rather vacant for bushwalking Garmin maps.

Anyway, if interested, give it a try and report back.

Cheers
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Re: Ent_World - OSM maps for Garmins

Postby andrewp » Wed 11 Sep, 2013 11:22 am

I have uploaded OSM maps of Victoria to https://www.dropbox.com/sh/riyiux3ldpqma0w/8v_4Ao4k3U.

OSM-AU-Vic-20m.img has 20m contours and is ~90Mb.
OSM-AU-Vic-10m.img has 10m contours and is ~150Mb.

I haven't used them in a live environment very much yet, so I would appreciate any feedback.

To install on most newish Garmins, just copy the img file to the Garmin directory on your GPS.

Ent, I can't remember exactly how long it took to build the contours, but I thought it was less than an hour for both 10m and 20m. My environment is Linux with 16Gb RAM and a fairly recent CPU.

Cheers
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Re: Ent_World - OSM maps for Garmins

Postby north-north-west » Sun 10 Nov, 2013 2:28 pm

*sigh* If only people would make all this stuff work on:
a) Magellan GPSs and
b) Macs
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Re: Ent_World - OSM maps for Garmins

Postby GPSGuided » Mon 11 Nov, 2013 3:04 am

north-north-west wrote:*sigh* If only people would make all this stuff work on:
a) Magellan GPSs and
b) Macs

Magellan is the only problem here. ;)
Just move it!
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Re: Ent_World - OSM maps for Garmins

Postby Ent » Mon 11 Nov, 2013 11:48 am

After a rather long break Ent_World has been updated as per below.

The typ file was changed to reduce the size of the walking track description to a smaller font as on the Garmin display it was rather dominate. The rendering of bridges was added to tracks, secondary, tertiary, and unclassified highways. Reservoirs are now rendered at the same level as natural=water and have names added. Wilderness huts will now show up with a unique icon. Shelters will show up with two types. Where shelter_type=basic_hut tag is used an icon suggesting you can sleep is rendered. Roundabouts are now rendered and routable. The latest version of mkgmap (2800) has been used which promises better routing plus OSM's latest data.

The resulting map has been extensively tested with a trips to Geryon, Lake Field, and a wander along February Plains to Lake Steers. It is interesting to see the contour rendering of Geryon that demonstrates the limitations of the SRTM contour data. The flatness of February Plains was also a good test of the contour data as it shows the lack of resolution of contour data contained in maps for the Garmins. However, with those limitations noted the map is very usable in the real world when walking on and off track providing that some one put the data into OSM.

Thanks to the work of sthughes it is possible using the colour mapping Garmins (62S, Rino, etc) to add up to a hundred raster maps scanned from Tasmap. This on the February Plains test gave another resource to use and extended the capabilities of the Garmins. It can only be hoped that Garmin works on improving its screens, file size, and number of map to overcome its limitations of raster maps.

It was interesting comparing traditional map reading and the GPS approach on February Plains. Sthughes was brushing up on his navigation skills so plotting positions and routes in an area that has rather confusing valleys and non-descriptive high points. When the skies cleared it was possible to get reference points from the known mountains but this forced the use of the 1:100,000 map that limited precision. The challenge was to translate this macro view onto the 1:25,000 maps and sure enough Tasmap had got a few things wrong that did not help this process. Still It was possible using a simple compass to get positions to around 500 metre by 500 metre square, or often less, so down to 100 metre by 100 metre was possible. The more "advanced" compass that I had with sights and longer base plate plus automatic declination correction reduced the errors but still shows the limitations and issues of the the old approach.

The typical Tassie weather meant the increase cost in laminating the maps was worth the money as the extremely poor quality paper used by Tasmap meant that the maps would have become a soggy shredded mess. It is a pity that Tasmap can not either improve the quality of paper back to the 1980's standard or release all maps in the waterproof material that they use for the OLT map. But given Tasmap's indifference to improvement I think this will by a long running Ent rant. Yet again they have promised electronic mapping data at the "end of the month". Based on past experience I am left wondering what month, year, decade or century that this will be.

One thing that was well and truly proven again and again is the dangerous imprecision of electronic compasses. I have used Garmin Fenix, 62S and Rino 650 three axis compasses (the "best" type in Garmin's range) along with a Sunnto watch with the advanced compass, and all are total rubbish. They are nearly always out by tens of degrees and need constant recalibration to have any hope of been within ten degrees. Often they are ninety to one hundred and twenty degrees out. By comparison the old compasses were spot on. My Brunton could be used to find a mountain in cloud that when the cloud disappeared the mountain appeared where it should be. Putting sthughes and my old compasses down a metre apart (to avoid cross interference) meant both pointed exactly the same, while his Rino 650 would point differently to my Rino 650 with my Fenix pointing somewhere else. The difference between them were random in both direction and variance!

I frankly can not understand how Garmin and Sunnto can get away with such junk. Simpler GPSs that use GPS data plots to orientate the compass are much more "reliable". It is highly dangerous in my opinion to trust any Garmin or Sunnto electronic compass so there always will be a place for my trusty old Brunton. I am surprised that Garmin and Sunnto have not had their provable kicked from one side of the Internet to the other, but then again as I have found, when posting on the Garmin forum, trolls claiming "user error" abound. It appears a strong case of "the emperor's new clothes" exist amongst the self proclaimed "experts". I do wonder if many such trolls actually understand the equipment and its limitations that they claim expertise in. I was once however rewarded when the trolls claimed that I was wrong, and Garmin then humbled itself and posted that the problem did exist, and was now fixed in the lasted software version just released. Having said that, there are many great people on the internet that confirm issues and suggest useful workarounds.

Anyway, please use the map if you have a suitable Garmin and post any feedback.

Cheers
Last edited by Ent on Mon 11 Nov, 2013 12:53 pm, edited 1 time in total.
"lt only took six years. From now on, l´ll write two letters a week instead of one."
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Re: Ent_World - OSM maps for Garmins

Postby photohiker » Mon 11 Nov, 2013 12:29 pm

Agree re Electronic compasses - they use battery and are not always accurate. That is why I went for a Garmin without one.

The non-electronic GPS require movement to calculate heading but that's never been a problem.
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Re: Ent_World - OSM maps for Garmins

Postby sthughes » Mon 11 Nov, 2013 4:56 pm

And even the Garmins that do have an electronic compass still use the movement while you are moving. It's interesting because while you're moving it is spot on, but as soon as you stop it just points any random way where it thinks north might be.

Why is the compass in my iPhone drastically more reliable than my Garmin one? Surely they are based on similar technology? Or is it the gyroscope? (not saying the iPhone is always correct either, just more often).

Ent wrote:Still It was possible using a simple compass to get positions to around 500 metre by 500 metre square, or often less, so down to 100 metre by 100 metre was possible.

The 500m accuracy was more me being lazy/rusty/confused! I looked at the Tasmap and assumed the spot height shown was the top of the hill in that general direction, but on closer inspection after checking by GPS it was just a random height in the middle of nowhere and not the hill I was sighting to, hence my line on the map was somewhat out! It did remind me why it's been years since I last bothered actually using a map and compass; GPS is just so much quicker, easier, more accurate and less prone to human error. :wink:
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