CAUTION - Garmin GPS and GDA2020

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CAUTION - Garmin GPS and GDA2020

Postby tastrax » Wed 27 Apr, 2022 1:10 pm

Hi folks

I have recently been doing some research on GPS replacements for an organisation and noticed that very few Garmin GPS's support the new GDA2020 datum. In the usual Garmin fashion they don't actually spell out which exact models have access. Don't let the 'new models' and '2019' in the document below fool you into believing something like a new Etrex22x will support it.

https://support.garmin.com/en-AU/?faq=C ... QHE8cwRI26

Some contact with a local supplier indicates that maybe only the 65 and Montana series currently have the ability to use GDA2020. I am still awaiting a reply from Garmin of which exact models, so be cautious if you are replacing a GPS to get these features.

Maybe folks with newer GPS's could indicate if they can select GDA2020 as the datum.
Cheers - Phil

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Re: CAUTION - Garmin GPS and GDA2020

Postby tastrax » Wed 27 Apr, 2022 1:39 pm

Etrex 22x Software version 2.70 - No GDA2020
Cheers - Phil

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Re: CAUTION - Garmin GPS and GDA2020

Postby headwerkn » Wed 27 Apr, 2022 1:58 pm

Can confirm the Garmin Fenix 6X (a sports watch with pretty capable mapping/routing capabilities, mind you) gives the option of both GDA94 and GDA2020. In theory so should the Fenix 7 series that have recently come out.

Will check our InReach Explorer+ and GPSMAP 66i tonight. Pretty sure the former won't (too old) however the newer 66i may well.

UPDATE - GPSMAP 66i can do GDA2020.
UPDATE - InReach Explorer+, as suspected, can't. (WGS84 only).
Last edited by headwerkn on Wed 27 Apr, 2022 6:46 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: CAUTION - Garmin GPS and GDA2020

Postby tastrax » Wed 27 Apr, 2022 3:11 pm

Many thanks - primarily looking at handhelds as we need to collect daily logs and plenty of waypoints plus some custom mapping (survey areas/grids), prefer with AA batteries as some trips are 7-10 days away
Cheers - Phil

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Re: CAUTION - Garmin GPS and GDA2020

Postby tastrax » Wed 27 Apr, 2022 3:12 pm

Inreach Explorer+ only has WGS84 and a couple of NAD datums
Cheers - Phil

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Re: CAUTION - Garmin GPS and GDA2020

Postby tastrax » Wed 27 Apr, 2022 3:19 pm

headwerkn wrote:UPDATE - GPSMAP 66i can do GDA2020.


That's interesting as 'supposedly' they were released before 2019?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_G ... unch_dates
Cheers - Phil

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Re: CAUTION - Garmin GPS and GDA2020

Postby Warin » Wed 27 Apr, 2022 4:07 pm

tastrax wrote:
headwerkn wrote:UPDATE - GPSMAP 66i can do GDA2020.


That's interesting as 'supposedly' they were released before 2019?


Last 66i software update November 17, 2021
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Re: CAUTION - Garmin GPS and GDA2020

Postby andrewp » Wed 27 Apr, 2022 5:15 pm

Given that the difference between GDA94 and GDA2020 is about 1.8m surely it's hardly worth worrying about. It's less than the accuracy of a hand held GPS.
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Re: CAUTION - Garmin GPS and GDA2020

Postby headwerkn » Wed 27 Apr, 2022 7:34 pm

tastrax wrote:Inreach Explorer+ only has WGS84 and a couple of NAD datums


Confirmed. Let's just be thankful they eventually released firmware that allowed MGA55 zone UTM coordinates to be entered in. About two years after it was released .. :lol: :roll:

Warin wrote:
tastrax wrote:
headwerkn wrote:UPDATE - GPSMAP 66i can do GDA2020.

That's interesting as 'supposedly' they were released before 2019?

Last 66i software update November 17, 2021


Image-1.jpeg


Don't think we've done a firmware update on this one yet. Pretty sure we got it late 2019, maybe early 2020.

andrewp wrote:Given that the difference between GDA94 and GDA2020 is about 1.8m surely it's hardly worth worrying about. It's less than the accuracy of a hand held GPS.


For following a calculated or previously recorded route, no. For surveying purposes, probably. Agreed, you really need pro GPS receivers to get that accurate though.
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Re: CAUTION - Garmin GPS and GDA2020

Postby tastrax » Wed 27 Apr, 2022 9:29 pm

In this case its more about longevity as the organisation will probably keep the GPS's for 10+years so we dont particularly want GPS's that wont be updated to the new Datum. Garmin couldn't even advise if its just a firmware upgrade or some other internal requirement for using GDA2020
Cheers - Phil

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Re: CAUTION - Garmin GPS and GDA2020

Postby headwerkn » Thu 28 Apr, 2022 4:00 pm

Garmin put way more focus into their sports/fitness products these days, than their handheld GPS devices. Hardly surprising given it's a vastly bigger market and presumably much more profitable for them. My old Fenix 3 (pre-HR version) was getting regular updates for something like 4-5 years... the last update was maybe all of 6 months before I upgraded to the 6X, which was already something like 18 months old at the time. Conversely the handhelds just don't get as much love.
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Re: CAUTION - Garmin GPS and GDA2020

Postby bernieq » Sat 30 Apr, 2022 10:16 pm

tastrax wrote:That's interesting as 'supposedly' they were released before 2019?
GDA2020 was 'released' in 2017 - plenty of time for the specification to be included in a 2019 GPS.

andrewp wrote:it's hardly worth worrying about
... as andrewp says.
For January 2020, the difference between GDA94 & GDA2020 is effectively zero. From then, the co-ordinates will (continue to) separate by approximately 7cm per year. So, in 2035, for a point on the ground, the GDA94 will be about 1m out.

I suspect you'll be using different tech by then :wink:

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Re: CAUTION - Garmin GPS and GDA2020

Postby tastrax » Sun 01 May, 2022 11:42 am

True, but the movement has been ongoing since 1994 and is now about 1.5 - 1.8 metres offset from GDA94 depending on where you are in the country

https://www.icsm.gov.au/datum/gda-frequ ... -questions
Cheers - Phil

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Re: CAUTION - Garmin GPS and GDA2020

Postby keithy » Mon 02 May, 2022 7:05 pm

tastrax - I understand your frustration about longevity and Garmin's lack of response.

So far I haven't seen many Garmin handhelds other than those mentioned that have includedthe GDA2020 datum. Most of their newer wearables however seem to have the GDA2020 datum (eg the Instinct and Fenix models I've check out do).

As headwerkn mentioned - the profitability of the wearables sector versus the outdoor sector is likely guiding their rationale. I've posted before - that from around 2017, Garmin's revenues from Fitness products overtook Outdoor products. I suspect that is the reason for the lack of innovation and improvement in the handheld GPS category.

Also as andrewp and bernieq mention, for bushwalking purposes (vs surveying) the difference between GDA94 and GDA2020 is minimal. I understand the shift since 1994, but the handheld GPS device accuracy is still lower than that shift.

For example, if you wander over to Garmin's support page - they still state that the "GPS receivers are accurate to 15m (49 feet) 95% of the time. Generally users will see accuracy within 5 to 10 metres (16-33 feet) under normal conditions".

In some of the more recent GPS units I've looked at, the manuals have stated in the Appendix page that the GPS accuracy is within +/-3.65m (12ft). Check the 65 manual if you end up getting that. I'm pretty sure that's still there.

So at best with current Garmin GPS accuracy ranging between 3.65m to 15m 95% of the time, in comparison I still consider the difference between the shift in GDA94 and GDA2020 minimal.

A while back I mentioned GPS accuracy improvement from the L5 GPS frequency however that is still in early stages and will take a while before filtering down to consumer GPS receivers. When that comes in, receivers could achieve under a metre accuracy. Receivers by that time should have the GDA2020 datum built in as well. But I'm predicting that smartphones will likely get GPS chipsets that support the dual frequency GNSS well before Garmin's handheld GPS receivers adopt it.
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