Bushwalk Australia

Looking at replacing my aging tradie nokia phone and I need some help from the technophiles out there. Looking at the options I get dazed and confused, narrowed it down to either an iphone 3gs or the HTC Desire. I wouldn't say I'm rough with my gear - quite the opposite - but I like it to be rugged so I don't have to treat it like a newborn infant. I have seen the hard cases for the iphones, not sure about teh htc. I was lookign at the tough T90, but it's fairly basic and can get more bang for the buck with apple/htc product.

please help me make a decision!

Area54 wrote:Looking at replacing my aging tradie nokia phone and I need some help from the technophiles out there. Looking at the options I get dazed and confused, narrowed it down to either an iphone 3gs or the HTC Desire. I wouldn't say I'm rough with my gear - quite the opposite - but I like it to be rugged so I don't have to treat it like a newborn infant. I have seen the hard cases for the iphones, not sure about teh htc. I was lookign at the tough T90, but it's fairly basic and can get more bang for the buck with apple/htc product.

please help me make a decision!

If it's between a 3GS and a Desire then don't even think - the Desire is a generation ahead of the 3GS, which obviously has been replaced by the "somewhat controversial" iPhone4. There are plenty of cases around for the HTC, it's a very popular phone. I use a pdair slip case for mine, and it works well to stop it getting crushed/scuffed. You've got to keep in mind that these smartphones have big glass screens, and they are also quite expensive, so they should be handled accordingly. Another trade off with smartphones is of course battery life. You should get around a day's worth of heavy use, or maybe 2 days worth of medium/light use, but ultimately you'll need to have them charging regularly so a car kit is pretty useful.

I dunno - what do you want to do with the phones? What're your minimum requirements? What network are you on/intend to use (I'm assuming Telstra, seeing you're looking at the Desire)?

I've been using my Desire now since about May, and it's a good piece of gear, but not without some small flaws, so happy to discuss pros/cons.

PS: You may find this useful: http://whirlpool.net.au/wiki/HTC_Desire_guide

Either phone should be fine, although if I was buying an iPhone today, it would be the iPhone 4.

The phone 4 works great on NextG, and the phone has been completely issue-free since it arrived. I can force the much-hyped antenna issue for fun, it simply is not a concern if you are going to have any sort of case on the phone.

I don't have either but want one! The iphone has Bit Map and thousands more great apps, end of story for me. I'd also fork out for the iphone 4 if you can find one

sthughes wrote:I don't have either but want one! The iphone has Bit Map and thousands more great apps, end of story for me. I'd also fork out for the iphone 4 if you can find one

The desire runs android, and there are many tens of thousands of apps available, and a lot of good free apps. Check out appbrain if you need convincing.

Yeah I know, I said thousands MORE! Some of the apps I'd like most (including Bit Map and Theodolite) aren't available on Android. That kills it for me, a device is only as good as it's software. While I suspect Android's offerings may overtake Apple's OS, I don't think it's there yet, not for my needs anyway. If it is just a hardware for price comparison then Apple looses badly (they always do, why oh why do people buy Macs to run Windows )

sthughes wrote:Yeah I know, I said thousands MORE! Some of the apps I'd like most (including Bit Map and Theodolite) aren't available on Android. That kills it for me, a device is only as good as it's software. While I suspect Android's offerings may overtake Apple's OS, I don't think it's there yet, not for my needs anyway. If it is just a hardware for price comparison then Apple looses badly (they always do, why oh why do people buy Macs to run Windows )

Sorry, the way it was phrased made me think you were writing off the Android platform as not having any apps. If you have a couple of apps that you absolutely MUST have, then you're stuck with whatever platform can run them. Android will equal or overtake iPhone for apps support, it's just a matter of time. It's the Mac vs Windows game all over again.

Off topic PS: I've got a Macbook Pro, and I run Win7 on it as well as 10.6. I love the massive trackpad to death, but apart from that it's just another laptop with a pretty case. My issue at the time was that I had a very specific requirement for a laptop specs wise (including portability and battery life) and I wasn't too concerned about the price. If Apple's W7 drivers were up to scratch I'd probably run Win7 exclusively because the interface is nicer (the new taskbar is excellent) and customisable. Ultimately OSX feels pretty clunky in many ways, finder is STILL horrible and doesn't have the metadata controls that Win7 has, and apps are more limited.

I have used both phones for a few days. My standarad phone is an older iPhone 3G.

Really it boils down to a Ford/Holden argument. I woulkd be happy with either phone, finding I can adapt to the foibles of both. I use few apps, so that is not an issue.

What I do love about the iPone is that it interacts with my Mac Mini at hom ethat runs the TV/stereo - who needs another remote. The MacBook is even better with screenshare on Leopard.

I wold definitley go for the iPhone 4. Much better screen, multitasking adn faster compared to the 3GS. Worth the extra $'s

Penguin

One thing is for sure - whether you buy Android or iPhone, thanks to Apple completely changing the game with the first iPhone, we are no longer stuck with those mind bending interfaces we had to endure under Nokia, Ericsson and Motorola.

All things being equal, Android should land up with the greatest market share because of the variety of the hardware from multiple manufacturers The iPhone is only one phone hardware from one vendor whereas Android is multiple manufacturers each with multiple different phones running Android...

That's gold info right there, I was looking at an ottercase (prolly the 2600) to protect it long term, basically the phone needs to be able to sit in my (sweaty)jersey pocket for hours when out riding, or sit on my arm in a holder/ handlebar mount as a bike/office cockpit phone - so I can follow up on work during the daily commute.

Features I need - good question - I like music and prefer the open architecture of a non itunes option (I'm a tightar$3), telstra is the provider.

Forgot to add, bluetooth headset for the wind cut when riding...

Having taught my boss how to use his iphone, used several of my mates iphones for various things, and spent the last 18 months being 110% certain i would buy the new iphone when it came out, i now own a Desire.

i am very competent on the iphones, so userbility is not an issue for me, but when i walked into the telstra shop and sat down and played with a desire for half hour, i was blown away at just how much more user friendly i found it, and how much faster!!! it looks nicer the the iphone4 IMHO also
i spent about 2-3 days playing with it non stop, setting everything up the way i thought i would like it, and after a month i think i am fairly happy with its current layout and settings... for now...

after now using the Desire for myself, and an unknown number of iphones (series 3 and 4), i am still amazed by how far ahead the desire is! everything seems to be logical, and if you find something that doesnt seem to be in the logical place, then you can change it!

Area54 wrote:That's gold info right there, I was looking at an ottercase (prolly the 2600) to protect it long term, basically the phone needs to be able to sit in my (sweaty)jersey pocket for hours when out riding, or sit on my arm in a holder/ handlebar mount as a bike/office cockpit phone - so I can follow up on work during the daily commute.

i contumplated an ottercase, but i ended up going for a leather/plastic case that fully protects it (from impacts, not water)(ill try and get a pic of it. id use my phone to take a pic[awesome camera btw] but it is not capable of taking photos of itself yet...). dropped it today for the first time and i *&%$#! myself! but it was 100% fine (iphones with the glass screen are very prone to breaking, regardless of the case. i dont know a single person that has not cracked the screen. Desire is a polycarbonate screen, much tougher).
as for holders/mounts, i dont think that you will find more options regardless of which phone you go. i have seen heaps of options for both.

Features I need - good question - I like music and prefer the open architecture of a non itunes option (I'm a tightar$3), telstra is the provider.

if you happen to use itunes as your music player, the playlists (and entire library) can sync with your desire. im unsure on other players, but i think i saw an option to choose what music player to sync with... i just clicked itunes and didnt take much more notice)

Forgot to add, bluetooth headset for the wind cut when riding...

im not sure if the iphone lets your bluetooth non apple gear (im fairly confidant the 3gs didnt?), but the desire blouetooths anything you ask it to


just to add, if you use any of googles various features (calendar, gmail, docs etc), then the Desire is DEFINATLY the way to go. log in to your account once, and it syncs ALL your google based stuff! this was one of the big selling points for me, as i wanted to sync google calendar. i was stoked when i realised that i sudenly had access to all my other google stuff

Macca81 wrote:

Forgot to add, bluetooth headset for the wind cut when riding...

im not sure if the iphone lets your bluetooth non apple gear (im fairly confidant the 3gs didnt?), but the desire blouetooths anything you ask it to

I use bluetooth headsets and Parrot incar system with a 3G no problems.

I like the fact that you can put music on the Desire straight onto the micro SD using it as an external drive rather than having to go through iTunes. It also means you caa use your phone as an external harddrive, something I miss on the iPhone compared to the old Classic iPod and the JazzJam.

just to add, if you use any of googles various features (calendar, gmail, docs etc), then the Desire is DEFINATLY the way to go. log in to your account once, and it syncs ALL your google based stuff! this was one of the big selling points for me, as i wanted to sync google calendar. i was stoked when i realised that i sudenly had access to all my other google stuff

We use our own exchange server and have had no troubles with the synching the iPhones (3G, 3GS and 4). That is mail, calendar and on the 4 task lists. Interestingly we had trouble with outlook mail and the Andriod system initially, but I think they have fixed the bug.

Have fun choosing.

Penguin

Some really good points are being bought up, many things I hadn't thought of before are now adding weight to my decision.

I currently use an old mp3 player for music, so have no library as such except for a bunch of compressed wav and mp3 files. I want to keep it that way so it can integrate easily (read: other non-tech family members) with the other pcs in teh house. I do like that point about the SD card acting as an external drive, it syncs with my logic for file handling.

I rode home in the rain today, my commute is an hour each way. With this much time, there is a lot of business I can do during this time. Reason I need a rugged case is so the weather isn't such a barrier to getting on with the job. I don't let weather dictate when I can ride - like most things if you have the right gear then soldier on.

I guess my most common used app would be bom. Not sure of the GPS capability, but google maps I'd probably use for rides, unless a new Garmin 800 makes it way under the xmas tree... I do use google a bit for mail etc. A climbing buddy of mine showed me an app on his iphone for knots, another mate showed me a gear inch calculator... I'm sure there is an app for almost everything.

Area54 wrote: I'm sure there is an app for almost everything.

if you can imagine an app that would be handy, odds are someone else has already made it

Area54 wrote:I currently use an old mp3 player for music, so have no library as such except for a bunch of compressed wav and mp3 files. I want to keep it that way so it can integrate easily (read: other non-tech family members) with the other pcs in teh house. I do like that point about the SD card acting as an external drive, it syncs with my logic for file handling.

I guess my most common used app would be bom. Not sure of the GPS capability, but google maps I'd probably use for rides, unless a new Garmin 800 makes it way under the xmas tree... I do use google a bit for mail etc. A climbing buddy of mine showed me an app on his iphone for knots, another mate showed me a gear inch calculator... I'm sure there is an app for almost everything.

As with most things on the Android platform, if you don't like the stock music player, you can download an alternative like Cubed, Double Twist or Mixzing.

There are plenty of weather apps and widgets for Android, but really the BOM website is fine. It renders very well on the stock browser, and if you don't like stock there are 4-5 other pretty good browsers, including Firefox which is in beta (haven't used it myself). There's at least one knot app for Android. Dunno about gear-inch calculators, but seriously, how often do you cut chains?

I could write pages about what's great about the Desire and Android, but I'll write my cons first. The following could be improved:
-bigger internal storage (this affects the number of possible installed apps, but since I've flashed a modded 2.2 ROM it's a non issue as 2.2 allows apps to be stored on the SD card.
-better viewability in bright sunshine
-longer battery life (but it's about the same as every other smartphone)
-better loudspeaker (the external speaker is not very loud)
-could have more apps, but there's a heck of a lot anyway
-Android doesn't have the location awareness that I would like, so you need apps like Locale to really tweak settings for different locations (ie: work, home etc) but that's just me being fussy
-wish it had the aluminium chassis of the HTC Legend, that thing is sexy
-would be nice if it was quadband and not 2 separate models for 850/1900, 900/2100
-camera and video are good, but could be better (but I've got a proper camera for that)
-you really will need a bigger micro SD card eventually
-the Telstra crapware and branding was annoying, but the custom ROM removed all that except the bootsplash
-doesn't have the range of accessories that the iphone has, but then again you're not stuck with proprietary interfaces as it uses standard micro-USB
-it doesn't shine your shoes or print money??
-it doesn't do the dishes?

There may be more things "wrong" with it but that's the stuff I could see improved.

Macca81 wrote:im not sure if the iphone lets your bluetooth non apple gear (im fairly confidant the 3gs didnt?), but the desire blouetooths anything you ask it to

Apple doesn't make any bluetooth gear that I'm aware of (apart from Macs and iPhones). So iPhones ONLY bluetooth to non-Apple gear, I think. Nothing has changed with iPhones and Bluetooth since the iPhone 3G (or probably earlier).

The big problem with iPhones and bluetooth is that they only use Bluetooth for headsets and car stereos (of any brand that meets the bluetooth standard for headsets and stereos). They cannot use bluetooth for file transfer or anything else, as far as I'm aware (unless you jailbreak the iPhone). This is fine for most people, but there are a significant number of people who'd like to be able to do other things with Bluetooth.

Son of a Beach wrote:

Macca81 wrote:im not sure if the iphone lets your bluetooth non apple gear (im fairly confidant the 3gs didnt?), but the desire blouetooths anything you ask it to

Apple doesn't make any bluetooth gear that I'm aware of (apart from Macs and iPhones). So iPhones ONLY bluetooth to non-Apple gear, I think. Nothing has changed with iPhones and Bluetooth since the iPhone 3G (or probably earlier).

The big problem with iPhones and bluetooth is that they only use Bluetooth for headsets and car stereos (of any brand that meets the bluetooth standard for headsets and stereos). They cannot use bluetooth for file transfer or anything else, as far as I'm aware (unless you jailbreak the iPhone). This is fine for most people, but there are a significant number of people who'd like to be able to do other things with Bluetooth.

2 of my mate both had blueant bluetooth gear in their cars from their old phones, and found that their iphones (one a 3gs and one a 4) would not link up, but they could both link into their home mac computers. one of them said that the dude at the apple shop said the the iphone will only link with apple approved gear? having never tried doing it myself im only going by what i was told by those who had. but if it does work, great! lack of file transfer would be a PITA at times tho. (but then, everyone jailbreaks it pretty quickly...)

Macca81 wrote:

Son of a Beach wrote:

Macca81 wrote:im not sure if the iphone lets your bluetooth non apple gear (im fairly confidant the 3gs didnt?), but the desire blouetooths anything you ask it to

Apple doesn't make any bluetooth gear that I'm aware of (apart from Macs and iPhones). So iPhones ONLY bluetooth to non-Apple gear, I think. Nothing has changed with iPhones and Bluetooth since the iPhone 3G (or probably earlier).

The big problem with iPhones and bluetooth is that they only use Bluetooth for headsets and car stereos (of any brand that meets the bluetooth standard for headsets and stereos). They cannot use bluetooth for file transfer or anything else, as far as I'm aware (unless you jailbreak the iPhone). This is fine for most people, but there are a significant number of people who'd like to be able to do other things with Bluetooth.

2 of my mate both had blueant bluetooth gear in their cars from their old phones, and found that their iphones (one a 3gs and one a 4) would not link up, but they could both link into their home mac computers. one of them said that the dude at the apple shop said the the iphone will only link with apple approved gear? having never tried doing it myself im only going by what i was told by those who had. but if it does work, great! lack of file transfer would be a PITA at times tho. (but then, everyone jailbreaks it pretty quickly...)

How did they link into their home mac computers with Bluetooth (ie, what did they do with them)? iPhones can't sync that way, can they?

I've seen several people link their iPhones to their various branded car stereos. It works simply and seamlessly. I don't know if they were Apple approved or not, but it's not something the owners had to consider. So it's unusual that your mates had problems, I think.

The thing with Bluetooth is that it's like USB, in that each device declares what type of device it is (eg, headset, car stereo), and then must comply with the established standard for that type of device. If the device complies with the standard correctly, then it will work, if it does not, then it will not work. This implies that either the devices that did not work either didn't comply with the standard, or that they declared themselves as a type of device that the iPhone doesn't work with, or that the devices were not paired correctly with the iPhone during the initial pairing setup (I know of some devices that don't retain their pairing).

I think lack of file transfer over bluetooth in the iPhone is a strange omission. Apple seem to want to have everything done over USB through iTunes which is crazy.

I would really like to see them include the ability that 'The Missing Sync' gave to Blackberries, that as soon as they came into WiFi range of a network that included their regular desktop/laptop, it would automatically sync up all the calendars, address book, etc (syncing photos, music and video over WiFi automatically would be a bit too much to ask, though, I think).

Son of a Beach wrote:

Macca81 wrote:

Son of a Beach wrote:
Apple doesn't make any bluetooth gear that I'm aware of (apart from Macs and iPhones). So iPhones ONLY bluetooth to non-Apple gear, I think. Nothing has changed with iPhones and Bluetooth since the iPhone 3G (or probably earlier).

The big problem with iPhones and bluetooth is that they only use Bluetooth for headsets and car stereos (of any brand that meets the bluetooth standard for headsets and stereos). They cannot use bluetooth for file transfer or anything else, as far as I'm aware (unless you jailbreak the iPhone). This is fine for most people, but there are a significant number of people who'd like to be able to do other things with Bluetooth.

2 of my mate both had blueant bluetooth gear in their cars from their old phones, and found that their iphones (one a 3gs and one a 4) would not link up, but they could both link into their home mac computers. one of them said that the dude at the apple shop said the the iphone will only link with apple approved gear? having never tried doing it myself im only going by what i was told by those who had. but if it does work, great! lack of file transfer would be a PITA at times tho. (but then, everyone jailbreaks it pretty quickly...)

How did they link into their home mac computers with Bluetooth (ie, what did they do with them)? iPhones can't sync that way, can they?

no idea, they just told me they had. i dont have an iphone so i have not needed to try with it. i do think it strange that apple doesnt allow bluetooth or wifi syncing though, i think they are allowing for quite a big restriction in this...

I would really like to see them include the ability that 'The Missing Sync' gave to Blackberries, that as soon as they came into WiFi range of a network that included their regular desktop/laptop, it would automatically sync up all the calendars, address book, etc (syncing photos, music and video over WiFi automatically would be a bit too much to ask, though, I think).

this would be the logical step for them to take if they are wanting to make a phone that is aimed for the end user. omiting this sort of thing would sugest that they either could not be bothered with it or they are holding it off to release in a later phone, giving it the edge over their current models...

Son of a Beach wrote:

Macca81 wrote:I think lack of file transfer over bluetooth in the iPhone is a strange omission. Apple seem to want to have everything done over USB through iTunes which is crazy.

Having to use iTunes for everything is Apple's way of channeling people through their store. Not permitting file transfer is a way of preventing people swapping content, I'm betting. Apple are so in bed with the music and film industry it's not funny.

Anyhow, Android provides bluetooth file transfer, it works well.

Area54 wrote:That's gold info right there, I was looking at an ottercase (prolly the 2600) to protect it long term, basically the phone needs to be able to sit in my (sweaty)jersey pocket for hours when out riding, or sit on my arm in a holder/ handlebar mount as a bike/office cockpit phone - so I can follow up on work during the daily commute.

Features I need - good question - I like music and prefer the open architecture of a non itunes option (I'm a tightar$3), telstra is the provider.

Forgot to add, bluetooth headset for the wind cut when riding...

If you mean a human-powered bike, there are weatherproof handlebar mounts like this one available that might be better than the jersey pocket...

No problems using your MP3s legally bought from elsewhere or ripped from your CDs with iTunes - you don't have to buy exclusively through the iTunes store or anything. You do of course have to sync the music to the phone via iTunes.