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[Travis22]

Aloftas, are you the same person who was posting in some of your other posts lol. Very well written posts

I find the idea that such old growth trees as photographed here would be cut down is truly horrible. I also cannot help but wonder why some the people here also horrified at this dont seem to support Nuts one bit in his ideas for helping to keep the environment as untouched as possible.

Travis.

[vicrev]

Egos are a big factor..........

[aloftas]

I am humbled and thank you.
I enjoy writing and find forums interactive and stimulating.
I think that the OLT is so epic that a graded approach is necessary.
It is the approach I will be taking.
As to road closures...
The debate needs to be had, free of the rancour.
Lucidity is revealed, when all options are canvassed and rated in the range and domains of probability of success.

Poli = "many (gk.)

tics = "views"

So, many points of view...all with heartfelt convictions.

Ascribed values and subjective normative assumptions from the ole cerebral coretex.

The point being; that in critical decision making situations, reflex response in a group setting, should be the norm.

Not as a drone/hive, but as a sentient, salient group.
"fluid"...
God, I do carry on...

but thanks people, appreciate the kind sentiments.

[stepbystep]

Certainly wish I could express myself as lucidly as you!

This...
http://www.abc.net.au/science/articles/ ... 236600.htm

[aloftas]

Certainly wish I could express myself as lucidly as you!

This...
http://www.abc.net.au/science/articles/ ... 236600.htm

and this^ was Tolkien only Joking about the Ents?



My Maternal Granny, said; If you don't know the meaning of a word, look it up.
Now go and read book.

With that look...

Old dictionary's are a treasure.

Writing is fun...

Anyway.

Cheers.

I bet its snowy up in them thar hills ...

[north-north-west]

This...
http://www.abc.net.au/science/articles/ ... 236600.htm

Thanks for that link. Interesting stuff. Knew a bit of it but not how complex the system is.

[corvus]

Certainly wish I could express myself as lucidly as you!

This...
http://www.abc.net.au/science/articles/ ... 236600.htm

and this^ was Tolkien only Joking about the Ents?



My Maternal Granny, said; If you don't know the meaning of a word, look it up.
Now go and read book.

With that look...

Old dictionary's are a treasure.

Writing is fun...

Anyway.

Cheers.

I bet its snowy up in them thar hills ...

I just love words and dictionaries how many do you own and consult ? I love my almost 4kg 1940 page Macquarie ,like my Mini Colour Macquarie ,daily use The Penguin 2002 edition but drool over my Leather Bound Compact Oxford English Dictionary of Current English.
Words are power if truthfully used .

[corvus]

Set me straight.

There's no hope for that. Unless, god forbid, you go for a walk through a forest like this.....................

SBS can you confirm that trees like this one are being are those being "harvested" I doubt it is and believe you are being just a wee bit devious /selective with your images.

[corvus]

Thanks Aloftas,

I think humans have appointed themselves stewards (where might they have got that idea from) well before we realized we are just another species of animal. Pulling our heads in is probably too late. Happy to read more.
Cheers

I wont get into the theological aspects of stewardship.
What I will say is that we are pretty much the only species on the planet which must modify our habitat and wear clothes for survival..(Except for the rare Bakers Beach type of person)...and where we must modify, the animal kingdom adapts. Look at how a wallaby is at home on a fresh drift of snow...no postholing for that little guy..his nose points him in the direction and off he goes.,,bounding as if without a care and leaving an impression a few inches deep, if that.

No, humans are stewards because of capability, no other reason.

The cerebral coretex and the opposing thumb are a lethal combination.

What needs to happen, is sentience and salience need to collide.

By that, I mean that we must not only be cognizant of our surroundings a the course we are taking, but aware also of the subtleties and "etheric breezes" which are blowing.


Change is coming, and faster than many will anticipate.

We are on a world stage with plenty of overseas visitors. These people need to be accorded the respect they deserve, not to be seen as simply an opportunity for ten bucks a pie and coffee.

We...need to learn to resect the earth on which we tread, look out to the heavens with a sense of wonder, as I can ASSURE you, the heavens are looking at us, with a sense of wonder coupled with despair...

We cant be seen as wood hooking lumberjacks with an interest in minerals.

Timber, mining are essential, but must be held in balance with cutting edge adherence to worlds best practices, and not merely lip service.

Anyway.

Sheesh Aloftas,
Are you doing English at College ? if you are I think you would fail for your abstruse use for some of our language
Just Saying

[stepbystep]

Set me straight.

There's no hope for that. Unless, god forbid, you go for a walk through a forest like this.....................

SBS can you confirm that trees like this one are being are those being "harvested" I doubt it is and believe you are being just a wee bit devious /selective with your images.

I can guarantee that. These trees are within a clear fell coupe I can 100% guarantee that. Unlike forestry Tasmania and our current government I have no interest or motivation in being "devious". Interesting that you would accuse me of that and yet have such faith in FT ... Thanks!

[aloftas]

@ Corvus.
Now I know why I disdain "higher education" and the self imposed limits that such an insular moderated system impose. "Educated fools..." <is THAT difficult to understand...?!
There should be no upper limits set.
Actually, about the only dictionary I own/use is an 1890's Nuttals.

Clue might be in the name.

Cant please all the punters and given the definition of "abstruse" is "difficult to understand"...I would suggest that perhaps, some are being "obtuse"

As I said I like words, I enjoy writing.
I am NOT going to write to satisfy the intellect of the monkey mind.
I do not speak to those who have cloth ears.

Cheers.

[aloftas]

Certainly wish I could express myself as lucidly as you!

This...
http://www.abc.net.au/science/articles/ ... 236600.htm

and this^ was Tolkien only Joking about the Ents?



My Maternal Granny, said; If you don't know the meaning of a word, look it up.
Now go and read book.

With that look...

Old dictionary's are a treasure.

Writing is fun...

Anyway.

Cheers.

I bet its snowy up in them thar hills ...

I just love words and dictionaries how many do you own and consult ? I love my almost 4kg 1940 page Macquarie ,like my Mini Colour Macquarie ,daily use The Penguin 2002 edition but drool over my Leather Bound Compact Oxford English Dictionary of Current English.
Words are power if truthfully used .

I don't want to be a nit picking *&%$#!, but the space comes after the comma, old chap.

FIAT LUX

[aloftas]

Certainly wish I could express myself as lucidly as you!

This...
http://www.abc.net.au/science/articles/ ... 236600.htm

and this^ was Tolkien only Joking about the Ents?



My Maternal Granny, said; If you don't know the meaning of a word, look it up.
Now go and read book.

With that look...

Old dictionary's are a treasure.

Writing is fun...

Anyway.

Cheers.

I bet its snowy up in them thar hills ...

I just love words and dictionaries how many do you own and consult ? I love my almost 4kg 1940 page Macquarie ,like my Mini Colour Macquarie ,daily use The Penguin 2002 edition but drool over my Leather Bound Compact Oxford English Dictionary of Current English.
Words are power if truthfully used .

See, drooling over the pages may cause an obdurate stain to emerge, thereby obfuscating a necessary adjective or two.

May want to get a tissue?


Just sayin...

[Nuts]

What has been made up?

What is being made up in this thread is an alternative story to what has been posted in the public notice by FT. There seems to be a reluctance to accept FT's up front account of what they are going to do.
Some appear to have trouble accepting that Tahune airwalk is having maintenance carried out, and the road is being repaired, and whilst that is happening, taking the opportunity to harvest a coupe.

Some are performing mental gymnastics to imply that FT want to harvest the coupe, and using road closures, or 'denied access ' as a cover, [i]disregarding[/i ]further thought about what this implies and who it might implicate, all because that's what humans unthinkingly do to those who's behaviour we strongly disapprove of.

Set me straight.

Ummmm - so you always believe 100% everything ever said by a government department? I didn't think that level of naivety still existed in this world.

People who have driven on the road within the last few days are telling you it is in fine condition - you think they're making that up just to suit their agenda? But you have no trouble accepting that what FT are saying is completely true? Despite their track record?
You really cannot believe that it's just as likely that - given the history - FT are determined to log those coupes and are using airwalk maintenance as an excuse?

OK. Nice bubble you live in.

I think what he is asking is for proof and suggesting that the onus is on detractors to provide? (beyond emotion and trusting avatars/ people he doesn't 'know'/ their qualified assessment). Could very well be something else? ((If geos does come back.. ) I doubt it's anything At All nasty..

Anyhow, some people are like that. They need 'more'. If the contention was that you 'just don't want a forest industry.' you'd try to avoid any facts in support or hope of a sustainable forest industry.

There's no reason anyone has to provide it, an old tree is an old tree whatever the agreements or tenure. 'You should know' or 'don't ask, go', presumptive rhetoric (to me).. and Hemp plants probably also swap a yarn now and then (:wink:) The 'roadworks' could be culverts and drains eg.

Photo's & the emotion are lovely but not helpful for some cross section of voters, without making them anti-tree! (or in another instance pro mining)

Forestry doesn't fit well with easily startled tourists in such places.

(oh, yeah Travis: thanks, I'm hoping that they wouldn't let anything petty cloud judgement if it does come to being asked about that subject)

[stepbystep]

Last you'll here from me on this until I get back in there, the personal swipes from the usual suspects is tiresome. All of the images I have posted in this thread, and many more were taken within cable logging coupe PC007D Saturday 18/07/2015.

If anyone wants to use my images on their social media networks feel free. In my opinion the more people see the deplorable way we manage our precious places in Tasmania the quicker we will be forced to change our practices.

I'm going for a long walk somewhere real.

Attachments

[aloftas]

Set me straight.

There's no hope for that. Unless, god forbid, you go for a walk through a forest like this.....................

SBS can you confirm that trees like this one are being are those being "harvested" I doubt it is and believe you are being just a wee bit devious /selective with your images.

Soo... I can see that a trained professional would have a problem with an illiterate ex farmer trumping him on the use of vowel scrambling and constant consonant construction, but to basically accuse someone of direct misrepresentation is going a little too far.

May I contend, that if the man says the pics are what they are, then this is what they are.

Without wishing to be pernicious or a pain in the "r's"...

Did one of those drool filled heavy boks fall on yer head Corvus?

There is a whole litany of regrettable comments coming from your learned lisps.

[GPSGuided]

... May I contend, that if the man says the pics are what they are, then this is what they are.

The irony of this is, why then should one doubt the words of Forestry Tasmania? In a political process, which this obviously also is, one is entitled to question all points of view.

[aloftas]

... May I contend, that if the man says the pics are what they are, then this is what they are.

The irony of this is, why then should one doubt the words of Forestry Tasmania? In a political process, which this obviously also is, one is entitled to question all points of view.

Yes, true.

However questioning a point of view is blatantly different to questioning the integrity of a poster.
I mean, cant you lot look at some specific lichen or some endemic stalk and identify within 50 feet of where you are?

Thread stinks.

[GPSGuided]

Yet again, the integrity of Forestry Tasmania to politicians have already been questioned in earlier posts. Gets gray doesn't it? It's just way too easy to get personal when discussing political, religious or any contentious issues. If one should post such, then be prepared for the eventualities. Otherwise Tassie weather discussions induce fewer conflicts, in general.

[aloftas]

Yet again, the integrity of Forestry Tasmania to politicians have already been questioned in earlier posts. Gets gray doesn't it? It's just way too easy to get personal when discussing political, religious or any contentious issues. If one should post such, then be prepared for the eventualities. Otherwise Tassie weather discussions induce fewer conflicts, in general.

or words of two syllables or less?

[aloftas]

..perhaps an inarticulate grunt?

[vicrev]

Yet again, the integrity of Forestry Tasmania to politicians have already been questioned in earlier posts. Gets gray doesn't it? It's just way too easy to get personal when discussing political, religious or any contentious issues. If one should post such, then be prepared for the eventualities. Otherwise Tassie weather discussions induce fewer conflicts, in general.

Good on ya GPS....The weather would be a great thing to debate on this forum,the egos would be less to the fore,less agro towards one another ,but, then,maybe not...why are you getting more rain / sunshine/snow than me,it's just not fair .....I know ,I'll blame Bronwyn Bishop & her Helicopter

[stu]

Maybe FT & our government could be restructuring themselves to come into the 21C.
All that 'rent'could herald a new age of Tasmanian economic rationale...or perhaps just a utopian concept

http://m.themercury.com.au/news/opinion/talking-point-rent-the-states-forests-dont-clear-fell-them/story-fnj4f64i-1227446073183

[GPSGuided]

Good on ya GPS....The weather would be a great thing to debate on this forum,the egos would be less to the fore,less agro towards one another ,but, then,maybe not...why are you getting more rain / sunshine/snow than me,it's just not fair .....I know ,I'll blame Bronwyn Bishop & her Helicopter

Don't be complacent! I'd blame global warming, hence forest destruction, fossil fuel production and use, inconsiderate urbanisation etc for these weather changes. And so the debate and flame war are reignited. The 'fun' and 'colour' of net forum participation continues.

[Nuts]

yeah, ok. I'd just say that there is equally no evidence that sbs hasn't given his true account of what he found and how he sees it, in whatever abridged form he chooses or from whatever influence is good enough. Iv'e had friends close to edge over such issues (one quite literally), the topic is definitely worth presenting as is robust discussion but please be mindful of the depths such sentiment can take some of us. Corvus etAl. (which I know and accept may seem an odd point, coming from me)

Good, interesting link stu, i'm more a 'working forest' crayon, perhaps a repository of the brown end of tourism as well, NZ ilk adrenalin sports, infrastructure blah blah. Not that this will keep old trees safe. Maybe a wider time-frame helps alleviate as a token thought bubble, how those forests will look in 150yrs (I doubt they'll be subject to another harvesting).

Last edited by Nuts on Thu 23 Jul, 2015 3:57 pm, edited 1 time in total.

[GPSGuided]

I agree. This and related issues are worthy of discussion. However, participants need to be fortified (with flame suits on) to live with likely tough words and when they get personal, or don't get involved. At the end of the day and beyond the flamming bits, pieces of fact will come out sequentially to help one attain a better understanding of the issue.

[stepbystep]

I actually have no intention of debating the issues, particularly not on this forum, so need no fortification. I've presented some facts, 400 year old ones, what you guys want to do with them is up to you. My opinion is very much settled, stuck in my ways I guess, oh well...

[aloftas]

More Latin here than a Gladiators event, and more distress than a Grecan drama.

On Forestry, "per se"...

If ONLY we could have a system which was selective, which was minimal impact, coupled with a well thought out fire plan...

if only...


years ago, things were probably harder...but probably better.

We need FT to keep these roads open....literally...

meaning, that if FT folds as mooted...who actually is going to manage the forests and roads, fire breaks?

Forestry and tourism must walk together.

We need a balance a workable forestry model, along side and in conjunction with a workable tourism model. ie. this is how we manage our forests, so you tourists are able to use the wilderness which is locked up...via the forestry roads..

I think, unless you want to live in a vegan yurt, it is g=hypocritical to denigrate the role of forestry.

Must, however be coupled with conservation ethos.
Man...what a jaded argument....all my life, the conservation ethos pitted against the values of agriculture, mining and forestry...

we need it all...
Unrtunately, vested interests create situations where outcomes are predetermined to elicit desired outcomes.

A bit like moderation in schools.

A pathetic, abject and pi poor result in lamentable literacy and atrocious history,implausible physics and gen "why?!" general knowledge...designed to elevate the whole at the expense of those cognisant.

What is it?

Don't parents teach their kids anymore?

Cant blame the teachers, and neither can we blame the mediocre beaurocrats who are doing the bidding of interest groups.

Last edited by aloftas on Thu 23 Jul, 2015 4:12 pm, edited 1 time in total.

[aloftas]

I actually have no intention of debating the issues, particularly not on this forum, so need no fortification. I've presented some facts, 400 year old ones, what you guys want to do with them is up to you. My opinion is very much settled, stuck in my ways I guess, oh well...

I believe you man.

[GPSGuided]

I actually have no intention of debating the issues, particularly not on this forum, so need no fortification. I've presented some facts, 400 year old ones, what you guys want to do with them is up to you. My opinion is very much settled, stuck in my ways I guess, oh well...

Perfectly understandable and understand your honourable intention. At the end of the day, I think everyone on this forum desire the preservation of our pristine bush. However, it's also to be expected that there'll be questions when these matters are presented. That's poli-tics (per aloftas' earlier dissection of the word).